niger

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

But it is. The only thing this achieves is to create more poverty, and to lock Africa into an endless cycle of taking aid and funding dictatorships with it.

---

Perhaps you're right, and I'm simply being too optimistic. But I'd say that responsibly distributed aid, combined with political action, would be able to start the process of lifting Africa out of poverty. For the continent to truly recover it will have to do a lot to help itself, true. But self-determination can't go far without fair trading rules and economic practices, which are the responsibility of our own governments to implement. Meanwhile, as ordinary citizens we can do our bit to save a few lives, and bring some small joy to people who suffer so much.

Again, maybe I'm just being optimistic, but that's the way see things, and I don't see how doing nothing is going to make the situation any better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

ed. it would take 10 9-11 attacks daily to match starvation in this world. if i had to choose between a daily attack like that and to end that death toll. i know who's side i would be on.

oh and boo hoo the yanks pay alot of health insurance. diddums for them i'm crying my eyes out here for them. i really am. i'm really sorry for going on about africa folks if i realised that america had such huge problems as that i would have never brought this entire disaster up. you do have far more important things to be concerned with. drug prices are what i should be caring about.

---

Maybe the countries with starvation should do something about it themselves for a change. We are way beyond the dawn of man. I would have expected that these countries would be able to have a competent government that helps out its people and tries to make the country a better place for its citizens.

Helping them out is one thing but it isn't like a lot of these countries even try. I just don't care about them and they can starve. They need to figure out a system in which they can live and survive and it isn't happening. If the countries were really trying then I would be more inclined to help them. Say if South Africa was in trouble. I would want to help them because from what I see they actually try to be a good government and are trying to get everyone on the same cultural and civilized ground.

As for your second paragraph...I am glad that you feel my plight. Also Healthcare, drug costs and social security actually threaten to eat up most of the American taxes in the next 50 years unless something is done. That to me says it needs to be fixed so that we can continue to help the world.

You don't think long term at all. You are just short term quick fix to a problem instead of something that will last long with out our constant involvement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

but the thing is....... we knew this was happening. it wasn't sudden. but the world stood back and did nothing yet again. it was happy to sit back and do nothing again and con us all into thinking that a difference had been made.

and ed what problems are these?

---

The thing is though they are have nots and the 1st world countries are haves.

Trust me another 3rd world ory will help out Niger.You see its always the people who have nothing to help people with that actually helps people.Organizations run like people.lol.

"I just don't care about them and they can starve." for that little comment ed i will tell you this. one day soon i hope you are in niger. starving. days without food. i hope that malnutrition slowly sets in. your stomach swells and your stomach acid eats at your intestinal walls. i hope you cannot get up from the pain of starvation. i hope that you lie there with days to live unable to do anything. your eyes glazed over with flies covering you. that you cannot speak to tell peple what pain you are and the only hope is that tomorrow you will die. i hope that day comes for you when you die of starvation. but don't worry it won't. so why should you care about these people?

maybe when all that happens you will learn about empathy, justice and greed.

ed. i just don't care about you and you can starve.

oh and ed of course i feel your plight. isee the great tragedy now. american taxes are soo important. because if america isn't allwed to grow fatter then when eventually it is fully rich and a few more million people have died ameirca might get round to helping the world. so the best thing for me to do is sit back and watch america grow richer, millions more die and the rest of the world get poorer. and then one day when america is perfect they will step in and sort out this mess. god now i'm so much more at ease with this. i just need to wait until that magical day when americans don't whine about taxes and have enough money they care about anything else but their own wealth and drug prices and insurance.

i'll stop going on about africa now ed has explained that all i need to is wait for more africans die and america will get round to it eventually.

phew problem solved.

The problem with Western society is that far too often we look out for number one. That's really just an ideological thing, but what do we do to change?

Think about Rwanda, where thousands of people were getting butchered daily in a veritable genocide about ten years ago. For anyone that's seen the movie Hotel Rwanda, Joaquin Phoenix's line about how "People will watch this on the news, say that's terrible, and go back to eating their dinner" pretty much sums up everything that isn't in our best interests.

We're often too selfish, whether we like to admit it or not. If it doesn't involve us, we don't care.

hasn't the BONGA FPSO vessel started oil production yet? yeah it is in a state but like most afvrican countries you need to give them aid and tell them how to use it and help themselves from then

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fresno

We're often too selfish, whether we like to admit it or not. If it doesn't involve us, we don't care.

---

I have never stated otherwise. I 'care' about Africa insofar as I would prefer it if there weren't poverty. I don't care enough to damage my own objectives in life. I don't care about anyone or anything enough to do that, except for my immediate friends, who could be classed as my own objectives anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

so tell me what should 3 million peple from niger do without food today? oh that's their fault they had a locust plague. and their fault they had a drought after that. it's their fault this was ignored. it's their fault they will starve tonight.

---

It's not their fault it happened. It is their fault they don't have safeguards in place against it, and it is their fault that they've spent the last few decades smurfing around with corrupt and violent governments instead of democracy or something.

Quote:

---

and yes the great depression. what america did there...... withdrew german loans. so the people starved and looked for a strong leader. go america! look out for yourself screw the repurcusions! and america topok out massive massive loans during the depression. and some war or other sorted out the economy.

---

Please tell me you just made that up. If you learnt it from a teacher, I'd like to know who it is so that I can take action to get them fired, and if you learnt it from a textbook I would like to have it removed from the curriculum.

Newsflash for j00: All nations consider their own interests first. That is all there is to it. America is no better, no worse, than Niger. Or Germany. Or Britain. Or Canada. Or anyone.

Quote:

---

and why do we need to care bout our nations first? out of selfishness? a lack of caring about others? the "it doesn't affect me so why should i care" attitude?

---

The government which helps 'other people' at the expense of it's own, or even the perception thereof, is a short-lived government indeed.

Quote:

---

and milf if i was dying of starvation i would actually want some food.

---

Because I totally said I wanted to starve to death. :rolleyes2 Jesus Christ. I said I wouldn't believe I deserved help.

Quote:

---

maybe when all that happens you will learn about empathy, justice and greed.

---

You have shown your true colors with that post. You have actively wished suffering on someone simply because they disagree with your methods of how a problem should be solved. Nobody likes poverty (Except those of us who believe it should be inflicted as a punishment when one's own views are contravened.), but apparently the belief that poverty will be remedied by African effort and African ingenuity rather than propping up corrupt governments makes us the very epitome of evil. The failure to recognize that just because we believe in a different cure, we endorse the illness, shows that you are either a [person] with no concept of 'difference of opinion', or that you are wholeheartedly commited to badmouthing the evil Amerikkka at every oppurtunity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

ed. i just don't care about you and you can starve.

---

Warn :D

And I agree with what MILF had to say. I don't see giving aid to them to be a good thing. Who are we going to give it to? The people? HELL NO! We give it to the corrupt governments who in the past have withheld that very aid to retain and control the people.

If I were starving then I would go out and try to find some food and even go to war with the government just to get food.

Starvation is a great tool for over throwing a government but give the government the food to supply to people and they can keep them complacent. Nothing changes.

The world has its problems and many forieners hate us. While we can help the suffering of others we should. Well help them.. not thier suffering.. er yah.

Anyways I think instead of dumpin resources on them and watching them go, we should teach the people to allocate thier resources. They dont have many, but the DO have some.

Our country is only as good as the world, as we are internationalized. I pray to GOD that we can all agree on that. With a pit like Niger in the world, I know something should be done.

Enforcing free and fair trade would be the best. Opposers of this say that is causes jobs to be exported, which is not all true. Coorperate scum feeding off these already hard ridden people cause jobs to be exported. Fair trade would cause a stable world economy which would help our own home out as well as billions of others.

On the same note we must realize that fair trade is not going to be fair. I am not sure on the motivations of China building thier army, and korea planning nuclear advancement, but if we could put our guns down we would get a lot more done.

Our porblems at home must also be figured out, sure. But if people would grow a consious in our goverenment (US)(all three branches) and in the leads of our companies, many of the problems would fix themselves.

Luthren Christans have many litinys praying for this. I just hate to see people sit back and pray, and I am sure that GOD would like to see us do some more about it. We should all be active (no matter what religion obviously) in improving our home. By home I mean the planet, we are all on the same rock - like it or not.

Just my feelings,
Bipper

Hate hate hate everywhere I see. The sad thing is this, Cloud No. 9 was just expressing concern for Niger. Is she idealistic? Maybe. Is she wrong? I don't honestly believe anyone on this website actually knows quite enough to say either way. I'm pretty damn sure that not many of you have actually been to Niger, are charter members of the UN, or are the President of a charity organization. My guess is that many of you got your information from books, the media, and the internet. And most of those books and internet sites were written by other people who have never been to Niger or been charter members of the UN, so on so forth. You're still entitled to your opinions, and you can post them all you damn well please, but why in the world do you get so angry about it? Do you guys just get off on yelling at each other?

So let's look at what we got here, just straight up facts. Is Niger in trouble? Yea, that's an understatement. Could other countries help? Most definitely. Does anyone actually know how to help? With my experiences with the government, I'm gonna say no. That's the problem with this particular situation. This one right here. Niger. I'm not talking about America'a problems, Europe's problems, or even China's problems. We could still help, that's just a fact. We could help. Why don't we? We don't know how. Maybe a few people do, but they don't care. We could try to make them care, but they probably still wouldn't. Those that do care don't know how. Money alone won't fix it. Food alone won't fix it. Taking out dictatorships won't fix it. All three put together might not fix it. We could still try, and maybe it would work. Maybe it wouldn't. I'm pretty sure that everyone can agree on at least one thing, it would be better if the problem was solved. But then we're not gonna solve this particular problem by yelling at each other on an online gaming forum..............

Quote:

---

But then we're not gonna solve this particular problem by yelling at each other on an online gaming forum..............

---

Discussing is NEVER a bad thing - no matter where. Yelling is - so i do aggre with ya here.

I really hope your post was not directed towards me. I am going of what I know and if you want to say I know nothing, because those who taught me know nothing- go right ahead.

I have been to slums in mexico, and yes i am fed by the media. We do have a problem and it does need fixing. I hope I never said that any problem will fix itself entirely. I just posted what is to me and my "fake" knowlage a plyable answer :) Take it for what you will though

Bipper

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

oh and boo hoo the yanks pay alot of health insurance. diddums for them i'm crying my eyes out here for them. i really am. i'm really sorry for going on about africa folks if i realised that america had such huge problems as that i would have never brought this entire disaster up. you do have far more important things to be concerned with. drug prices are what i should be caring about.

---

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showpost....66&postcount=9
http://forums.eyesonff.com/showpost....0&postcount=15
http://forums.eyesonff.com/showpost....8&postcount=17
*goes on*
:rolleyes2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bipper

Quote:

---

But then we're not gonna solve this particular problem by yelling at each other on an online gaming forum..............

---

Discussing is NEVER a bad thing - no matter where. Yelling is - so i do aggre with ya here.

I really hope your post was not directed towards me. I am going of what I know and if you want to say I know nothing, because those who taught me know nothing- go right ahead.

I have been to slums in mexico, and yes i am fed by the media. We do have a problem and it does need fixing. I hope I never said that any problem will fix itself entirely. I just posted what is to me and my "fake" knowlage a plyable answer :) Take it for what you will though

Bipper

---

Nah, man, it wasn't directed at you, it wasn't directed at anyone. I wasn't even trying to say that you guys know nothing or that it's fake knowledge. I'm just saying that none of us probably know as much of what's going on as the people who are truly involved (i.e. Nigerians, UN, African charity organizations) do. That's all.

No, I'm not going to give money to Africa. Sure, I guess that makes me selfish. I don't care about people who choose not to take care of themselves. If the people knew a year ago a famine was going to happen, then they could've done something(moved, stored up on food, etc.).

If individual people/charities want to help, sure, that's their choice. But I'm against governments or the UN doing it. The UN isn't there to put food on peoples' plates for them or to tuck them in at night. It is not the World Welfare Program.

It's indidivual peoples' money - they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

Let's keep this civil or I'll be passing out EoEO bans.

In any event, you can talk about helping Niger or any other country until you're blue in the face, but that won't change anything. As was stated earlier, it's one thing to throw money at a problem and hope that it somehow fixes itself (which is, in effect, what you are advocating), but it is another entirely to actually solve it. A government exists for one of two reasons. A mandate of the masses or a mandate of the guns. The former (more desirable) method is that the government operates under the will of the masses. The other is that the government exists because it controls all of the weapons and rules through violence.

It is asinine to expect that if America were to divert a great deal of its resources to Niger or any other country, that suddenly everything would be all right. What good is money and food if the government isn't working?

In any event, I could not say what (if anything) will save Africa. Do you truly believe that you can? You've already stated (with more vehemence than I shall allow in this thread if it persists) what you believe will work, but it has already been argued against quite effectively, giving me no reason to reiterate what has already been said. You want more action or "generosity", or you want those who aren't conforming to your standards to suffer. Is it not rather hypocritical to demand aid for some while wishing ill upon others?

I'd say you need to straighten out your priorities. There are ways to be involved (the effectiveness thereof is debateable), so why not take up whichever causes you feel to be correct? We believe what we believe, you believe what you believe, however, you have no right to insist upon our suffering if we do not do EXACTLY as you think. After all, is that not the concept of a dictatorship? Those who do not conform pay the price? Could you not just live for what you feel is right and allow us to live as we feel is right? Charity is all well and good, but do you really feel it is our responsibility to help someone with their own problems when they live a whole continent away? Some might say yes, others might say no, others still will keep quiet and do what it is they feel is correct. We've made our decision, you've made yours. Isn't that enough?