[QUOTE=?????]I'm sorry, but you're completely mistaken. Every piece of "evidence" cited is proof of nothing, while you totally disregard SE's official word on the subject.Quote:
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Originally Posted by ?????
Thoroughly and completely incorrect. The Super Nova spell DOES matter. Even though it's almost certainly an illusion, the names of the planets are irrefutable in-universe proof. The B-49 jet visible in the Bone Village is not necessarily proof, but strong evidence. Also, the Gaea's Cliff thing really doesn't matter. By that logic, this planet's name is Rocky because of the Rocky Mountains. The brochure doesn't matter on that point, because it contradicts in-game information. This line in Sector 7 is etymological proof, as well:Quote:
The Planet referenced in FFVII is Gaia. Beyond the brochure, which is an official SE document, one might note that the game includes a location called Gaea's Cliffs. Given that phonetics are all that's important in this case (similar situations would include Boko and Boco), it's understandable that this attests to the name of the planet.
More importantly, there's absolutely nothing in FFVII that suggests that the name of the Planet is not Gaia, nor that the game takes place in our future. I imagine you're thinking of the planets that appear during the animation for Safer Sephiroth's Super Nova spell, but really--that's entirely irrelevant. Besides being a matter of gameplay, the fact that the spell can occur multiple times (and destroy the same planets) suggests that it's somewhat illusory. Further, our cannot actually go supernova, as it lacks the necessary mass.
Ultimately, Earth and Gaia are incompatible. We don't have a Lifestream, and we don't have materia.
"Oh Jesus!! What the hell's wrong tonight!!
I thought that long blackout was strange.
They say a Mako Reactor was destroyed above.
I was jes sittin' here drinkin', watchin' the news by myself.
'n' all of a sudden I get kicked outta the &*%$ store. What's up with that!?
I wasn't even done with my drink. I didn't even pay my bill..."
Plenty of places in the game use the term God damn, which in and of itself is not enough, as the people of Spira have gods that they worship, but this line specifically references a religion native to this planet. There's nothing in the game that suggests that the planet IS named Gaia, for that matter, and there is strong evidence, as I have outlined above, that proves that it takes place here. Of course, we haven't had Jenova come, or any ancient, itinerant race of aliens decide to colonize someplace way off to the north of here, which is the reason I say it's far into the future. Considering Jenova's power, it's entirely feasible that her coming messed up the tectonic plates.
I'm well aware that the sun doesn't have enough mass to go supernova. That requires a mass of about five times that of Sol, which suggests that the majority of the mass came from the energy ball that Sephiroth called into the solar system. Now, the mass had a diameter about half that of Jupiter, which is almost big enough to be a red dwarf star, but still nowhere close to that of our Sun. Obviously, four solar masses crammed into a diameter a miniscule fraction of the size equals black hole, which is irrefutable proof that it is an illusion, unless it was made of concentrated dark energy or something like that, which is in itself incredibly unlikely. Introducing enough dark matter into the center of the Sun would be enough to cause a real-life version of the illusion that Sephiroth created, but lots of luck getting it in there.
First off, citing the "B-49 jet" is pointless. Evidence of current technology abounds in Gaia; hell, the cellphone Cloud uses in Advent Children is a real-world model. That's obviously a marketing strategy, of course, but the point is that certain technological similarities are inevitable. Given the enormous changes in the continents that would have had to occur (more on this in a bit), and the fact that no other remnant, archaelogical, oral, or whatever, exists of a pre-Cetra culture, we're left to contemplate a massive temporal gap (at best). It seems unlikely that a jet would have survived practically intact over thousands (even millions) of years, particularly given that there's no sign of rusting or other deterioration.
On the subject of Super Nova, as regards yellow stars and identically named planetary systems, its merely convention. For the world to take place under conditions we can appreciate, it's likely that a yellow star would be used as the framework for a solar system. You know, like in apparently every Final Fantasy. As to the planets, assuming that they actually exist, one could make the argument that it suggests Gaia is the Earth of an alternate universe. Even that's pushing it somewhat; the planetary nomenclature of Gaia's system is most likely a matter of familiarity. Would you argue that the world of FFVIII is also Earth, and the world of FFVII, just because Orion appears in such a way that FFVIII's world would be forced to exist in the general vicinity of Earth?
If that fails to convince you, why didn't SE simply call Gaia "Earth"? As seen in FFIV, there is series precedence for such a move (not that FFIV is our Earth, of course).
The Mysidian Legend:
More imporantly...Quote:
One born of a dragon, bearing darkness and light, shall rise to the
heavens over the still land. Bathing the moon in eternal light, he
brings a promise to Mother Earth with bounty and grace.
Incredibly, everyone's favorite Lunarian, FuSoYa, makes mention of Mars and Jupiter. Would you argue, then, that the world of FFIV is the world of FFVII? And what of this mystery planet between Mars and Jupiter? The Asteroid Belt? Unlikely; a dying planet doesn't necessarily reduce itself into a field of rubble. Further, analysis of moon material (again returning to real-world analysis) suggests that our moon was not some recent creation of Lunarians. Nevertheless, we see the words Mars and Jupiter.Quote:
FuSoYa: In eons past, a planet between Mars and Jupiter verged on
extinction. The survivors escaped by ship to the blue planet.
Cecil: The blue planet...? Our home?
FuSoYa: Yes, Earth. But because the people of Earth were still
evolving, the survivors created another moon, where they now sleep.
Edge: So these survivors became Lunarians, and they're still sleeping.
FuSoYa: Some were reluctant. One even schemed to destroy life on Earth
and usurp the planet.
As to the continued matter of gravity, and the like, I assume you've had experience with other fantasy settings. Amazingly, gravity is similar there as well. Obviously, it's convention; differences would merely interrupt the narrative process and overall presentation of the game. It's convenient for certain characteristics to match Earth, so they do. It doesn't even begin to suggest any sort of connection, nor does it detract from the game.
The language of Gaia is indeterminate. In the Japanese version of FFVII, it's Japanese; in the American version, it's English. This is most likely so the target audience can understand the story. The grammar matches ours (excluding "This guy are sick"-type gaffs) because the NTSC-U/C version is meant to be comprehended by its audience.
Even discounting matters of localization, you'll note that nowhere in the entire FFVII script does the name "Jesus" actually appear. "God" and certain variants occur, of course, but they occur in other FF games as well. This includes FFT, which you yourself argue is not the same world as FFVII (and therefore, you would conclude, not Earth). As a matter of fact, God is the first word that appears in the FFT script! The Orbonne Monastery further bears notable similarities to real-world sites. While one could argue that "God" is a generic title for Ajora, or any higher perceived aspect of the Glabados Church, such a phrase appears throughout Final Fantasy.
In FFVIII, for example, there is no mention whatsoever of any sort of deity. Nevertheless, Squall uses the phrase in a moment of duress, as this is how the phrase is commonly used in the English vernacular.Quote:
Squall: GOD!!!!!! Rinoa is gonna die! ...I can't take it. Ellone, please.
I've never felt this way in my life.
Moreover, the Cathedral in Chrono Trigger bears a striking resemblance to a Christian building. This doesn't make the world of the Chrono series the same as Earth, though; in fact, we know it's not, as we are afforded the example to explore its actual prehistory.
Having examined your evidence, and noting that there is amazingly little that actually points to Gaia being Earth, let's look at the massive contradictions that exist were this the case.
First off, a point which you completely ignored: Earth does not have a Lifestream, and Earth does not have materia. The very life of Gaia itself is bound up in the Lifestream; the Planet literally cannot exist without it. We also know, as evidenced by the materia fountain at Mt. Nibel, that materia can form naturally. Earth has no Lifestream, and no materia. The Lifestream cannot come later; the Planet is wholly dependent on it. Thus, we immediately arrive at an insoluble divergence between Earth and Gaia.
Furthermore, we return to the matter of the continents. If the impact of JENOVA was responsible for the utter rearrangement of the world, one must question why the Northern Crater is still in the north. Further, given that the impact itself was not sufficient to force the Cetra to leave the Knowlespole, I contend that the JENOVA impact had nowhere near the effect on the global geography that you suggest. Given, then, the time that needs to elapse for continental drift and the disappearance of all human culture, we're left with an enormous gap.
However, humanity apparently resurfaces. Given the negative environmental effects wreaked by humanity on Earth (assuming Earth and Gaia to be the same), it seems unlikely that the Planet would have allowed the race to return. The lack of arachaelogical evidence regarding human culture (ALL vestiges of our civilization are gone) would also come into play.
Finally, we're left with the most obvious fact. The SE brochure which refers to the world of FFVII as Gaia. Really, it contradicts nothing in-game, and certainly nothing explicitly stated.
By the way, although this doesn't actually play into the argument from either of our perspectives, I just thought I'd point out that the comet Sephiroth calls that apparently causes the supernova is nowhere near half the diameter of the planet. Really, as seen here, it's probably closer to a hundredth.
