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Aside from the fact that Square had leaked all sorts of info about the movie to give proper expectations that you'd think fans would have ate up, I agree with you here. However, there are people that outright loathe the movie. Their reasoning? It's not a Final Fanatsy movie. They refuse to give the movie a chance and hate it for no other reason than it's TITLE. That's just outright stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyk
It was labelled as a Final Fantasy and it shouldn't have been. Sure it was a pretty good movie and everything, just not a Final Fantasy movie.
I'm thinking the movie needs a re-release on DVD, but changing the title to simply "The Spirits Within" and making sure that no mention of the games is made at all. General public would probably eat it up, thinking it was something fresh and new.
Maybe they would have liked it if there'd been genetically engineered chocobos to ride around, and summons that they called on against the aliens. I mean, hell, Bahamut ZERO or SIN could probably get rid of the aliens from Independence Day; its blast is easily visible from orbit, and those aliens demonstrated nothing of that magnitude. Almost scares me thinking about the size of the craters that must've been left outside of Midgar from the battle with Diamond Weapon. But aside from Dr. Sid, there was barely anything to distinguish it as a Final Fantasy, honestly. But the movie really wasn't that bad.
I don't like the spirits within. The characters were extremely dull, as was the film.
no :mog: ... 'nuff said...
The thing that BAFFLES me bout Nomura, is that his side characters are always great. Ive seen enough shojo anime to cause permanent brain damage, and FFVIII just took every damn shojo cliche, created the gunblade, took a bond girl reject and made her the main villain, wrapped it all up in some very cool FMV and called it a Video game. Yet aside from how awful a product it was it also featured Laguana who is one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters of all time. I don't know how Nomura could direct the worlds most contrived love triangle, create what could very well be the most unlikeable bishonen and Bishonjo in all of history, along with the most bland side characters (there's only four of you and the orphanage scene is your idea of character development?), yet create as cool a character as Laguana. I just don't know. Similarly I'm sure everyone here is familiar with my rather low opinion of Advent Children, yet hey I do think the turks Rufus were phenomenally well done. There are times when I think the only reason Square didnt call AC Deus Ex Machina was that they didn't have enough for licensing fee's, yet despite how redundant and cookie cutter the film is, The turks and Rufus show up and save the film from complete mediocrity. And Vincent was also pretty cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyk
So yah, Nomura can create likeable side characters. Its just that every main character he's ever created or directed just ends up so painfully derivative and bland its awful. I didnt find Clouds psychosis amusing the first time around in FFVII. Maybe its just me, but when you've come out of a disassociative state and admit that all the strength you thought you had was a psychological delusion, you shouldn't actually be stronger physically afterwards. so AC just bored me with him relapsing all over the damn place. Didn't like tifa the first time either, so it figures she gets her share of screen time. Maybe its best the turks, vincent, rufus, yuffie, and others didn't get onscreen very often, lest they suffer the same fate as awful scripting and direction. It seems like Nomura can summon some true inspiration, yuffie chewing tifa out over her inexplicable infatuation with cloud made me bust a gut (lets face it, it needed to be said), but it only occurs in short bursts where he's concerned
As for Final Fantasy, the first six games all followed different storytelling structures. Sure there was a final boss, but getting to him and the storytelling flow was always different. It wasn't until FFVII that Final Fantasy became formulaic with the whole cutscene/dungeon/boss/cutscene/dungeon/boss cycle. So I didn't really go in expecting a flow, i just wanted to see a movie that had a good story from the master of Final Fantasy, and I wasn't disappointed. I don't think I even blinked for the final twenty minutes as the plot twists just kept coming, and I loved how sakaguchi could speak volumes of whats going through a characters mind and their progression with just a few simple images and sounds. The scene where you hear metal on metal clicking, then see floating bullets and general heins head down with something in his hand pointed at his head was a powerful scene, and just as the chamber with the bullet loaded, he gets a message and goes from taking responsibility to totally succumbing to his obsession and becoming what he hated the most. If only Nomura had HALF that storytelling ability, Id have some respect for him.
I'd like argue that, but cant. but then again, neither did AC. When will the little guy get the recognition he deserves? :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neco Arc
but, I do remember someone spotting a chocobo as a phantom.
*Wark* :choc:
your dead. :eek:
I know I'd be scared :eep:
Um, no, they really didn't. The basic storytelling structure of Final Fantasy hasn't changed since II. They've had increasingly more complex iterations of it, but aside from that it's basically the same narrative style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
You become a guinea pig for a mad scientist for four years and see how stable and sane YOU are. It's not like it just came out of nowhere; the entire game developed upon and led up to Cloud's inner self finally awakening. He isn't any stronger physically afterwards, he's stronger emotionally. Amnesia and altered memories are not original ideas in RPGs, but full-blown psychosis and delusions were certainly a first. Hell, they didn't even do amnesia that often before VII. They had it in the first five minutes of VI, and then it ended. Probably the only RPG character who's had his head screwed with more than Cloud is Revan, and only because of the sheer scale involved; it isn't every day you find out you were a power-crazed, murdering Sith Lord.Quote:
If only Nomura had HALF that storytelling ability, Id have some respect for him.
I : Light warriors, time quest, four elemental beasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ?????
II : Orphans, empire, story worth a damn
III : orphans empire, job system and crystals.
IV : Crystals, Darth Vader becoming good again style plot, best friend being manipulated because of his jealousy, Cecil's amnesia about his roots, rydia's angst and eventual maturing,
V : Crystals, expanded job structure, story got scaled back.
VI : large cast, well detailed, memorable villain, world goes to hell, reassembling the party
so yah, the job system and crystals repeated. But the story itself kept changing and didnt really repeat. save for III and V. The only thing most of these stories have in common are the evil empire, crystals, and apoccalyptic threats. though thats pretty much a part of makin an RPG.
Havnt played Xenogears have you? not only amnsia, but schizo and the alternate persona is the dominant one, has the powers of a demigod and wants to kill everything and everyone in existance. fei's issues make cloud look like a guest star on sesame street. Lets not even talk bout the 32-bit gen, Cecil from FFIV killed people willingly, and only followed through with his doubts when he had to slit the throat of a child crying over the dead body of her mother who cecil killed (he knew he was carrying a bomb BTW). His best friend and mentor betrays him in an attempt to win over Rosa, whom he's always loved and thought he should have since he was the stronger one. His brother is out to destroy the world, his father is a spirit who he only meets once in his little spiritual rebirth. Hell, Rydia herself had to fight by the side of the man who killed her family. Thats gotta do some things to the mind now shouldnt it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ?????
Want something a bit more current? Laharl from disgaea is the overlord of the underworld who has prinny's (penguins housing human souls serving pennance for sins) as his slaves. The one prinny he worked the hardest, and was the cruelest too he eventually learned was the reincarnation of his mothers spirit, serving time for her suicide which she performed to save his life, incidently, he became such a heartless bastard after her suicide, since his father couldnt stop her from killing herself, and he loved her so much. He learns this when he see's the spirit of his mother, leave to be reincarnated after she's served her pennance, on the night of a red moon. and the script just says "he looked towards the red moon for hours, silently, never moving". Gee, I somehow dont think he was contemplating the next days schedule.
there was a moogle doll in ACQuote:
Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
I'm talking about the narrative structure of the story. The crystal theme does repeat several times; basic exposition, foil a minor enemy scheme, meet new characters, chase villains and/or solutions, maybe somebody dies, expound on philosophical themes...it's basically the same for every game. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as the story's executed well. But by no means did FFVI set any standards for anything. In that sense, neither did VII; it simply proved they could be applied on a far larger scale than before. The scale was basically the standard; the story just happened to be exceptionally well-executed as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
Yes, I've played Xenogears. Keep in mind that it came out over a year after FFVII. Cloud's personality conflict almost caused the same level of destruction as Deus; the sole difference is that Id performed the dirty work himself, while Cloud's other personality merely aided Sephiroth. If he'd remained under the control of Sephiroth, nothing would have been left to stop him from absorbing the entire Lifestream. There are very few forces in any science fiction or fantasy universe that could hope to take him on in that state. Fei's issues don't make Cloud look like a guest star on Sesame Street; they're roughly comparable, with Fei perhaps having a slight edge in the f**ked-up department. Though I will remind you that Sesame Street introduced an HIV-positive muppet in 2002.Quote:
Havnt played Xenogears have you? not only amnsia, but schizo and the alternate persona is the dominant one, has the powers of a demigod and wants to kill everything and everyone in existance. fei's issues make cloud look like a guest star on sesame street.
Yeah, it will, but being experimented on and tortured is infinitely more traumatic. Direct physical and psychological torture is ALWAYS more intense than mere emotional pain from losing loved ones or some such thing. About killing people, Cloud was a mercenary; killing people willingly was his job, so that argument's dead in the water.Quote:
Lets not even talk bout the 32-bit gen, Cecil from FFIV killed people willingly, and only followed through with his doubts when he had to slit the throat of a child crying over the dead body of her mother who cecil killed (he knew he was carrying a bomb BTW). His best friend and mentor betrays him in an attempt to win over Rosa, whom he's always loved and thought he should have since he was the stronger one. His brother is out to destroy the world, his father is a spirit who he only meets once in his little spiritual rebirth. Hell, Rydia herself had to fight by the side of the man who killed her family. Thats gotta do some things to the mind now shouldnt it?
That would definitely hurt. I've had friends who've been through similar ordeals, minus all the reincarnation. But despite its pain, that's simple angst, nothing more. People like Cloud and Fei have actualy been physically and mentally altered by outside forces as part of grand schemes to subvert the entire planet, and eventually, the rest of the universe.Quote:
Want something a bit more current? Laharl from disgaea is the overlord of the underworld who has prinny's (penguins housing human souls serving pennance for sins) as his slaves. The one prinny he worked the hardest, and was the cruelest too he eventually learned was the reincarnation of his mothers spirit, serving time for her suicide which she performed to save his life, incidently, he became such a heartless bastard after her suicide, since his father couldnt stop her from killing herself, and he loved her so much. He learns this when he see's the spirit of his mother, leave to be reincarnated after she's served her pennance, on the night of a red moon. and the script just says "he looked towards the red moon for hours, silently, never moving". Gee, I somehow dont think he was contemplating the next days schedule.
It cost Square 200 million to make Spirits, way to put all your eggs in one basket, I wonder if they thought that people were just gonna die over this movie like it was even close to the epics Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were, Square would still be Square Soft instead of Square Enix if it wasnt for this movie. And for what, the characters looked like dolls, their facial expressions were unrealistic, their body movements outside of the commando armor were stiff, and lack of tone and defromation in the skin and tissue when they went to grab something was weird also, and they expected an american audience to eat this up, it just made most people uneasy. The overreliance on special effects, and the cliche characters and storyline evil monsters appear; a way is found to stop evil monsters; catastrophic disaster occurs; heroes acquire an airship; heroes try to stop evil monsters by collecting a set of items; evil empire gets in the way. Compared to great Sci Fi movies like Alien, Aliens, Blade Runner, Independance day, and even its eastern counterparts like GITC,Akira, and Metropolis its easily forgettable. Square gets one fish slap to the face. :trout:
saw it like a month or 2 ago, i sorta liked it
What's funny is that most of what you accuse TSW of, can be accused of Advent Children. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by SoulTaker*