All could've been prevented

Because if they destroyed the machine, then they would not have gone into the past to destroy it, but if they didnt go back in time it woulnt be destroyed, but if it was made they would have gone to destroy it, but if it was destroyed then they wouldnt have gone to destroy it, but if it wasnt destroyed they wouldnt have gone to destroy it...

and i think a time and space continuum/time paradox (i get the 2 confused) is alot wose than time compression
I think causing the universe to collapse was the last thing they wanted to do

I know it would be refuted.Just post it as alternative.

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Originally Posted by Noj_R

I agree completely. Ultimecia was clearly obsessed with achieving time compression. Destroying the machine would only stall Ulti, not stop her. Things would stay as they were only Ulti would have to find an alternative solution...Maybe one worst than JME...

Great theory Skyblade! :D

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Thanks for the support.

Another thing that I would like to point out is this: Why do you all think that Odine or Odine's work is the cause of all this? Think for a moment, people. Odine was already a chief scientist during the flashbacks. How old must the guy be now? Sure, he may have done the groundwork, and he was probably the first to investigate Ellone, but so what? Ulti's time was far in the future, remember? As Odine said, the machine was nothing now, but in Ulti's time it was impressive. How much must have been done, and by how many different scientists? It's a lot easier to reproduce science than it is to develop it in the first place. Destroying the basic machine and even killing Ellone wouldn't prevent it from being reconstructed or developed further in the next hundred years or more. If one person can have this power, so can others.

Seriously, taking the quick and easy way out doesn't usually work.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Thanks for the support.

Another thing that I would like to point out is this: Why do you all think that Odine or Odine's work is the cause of all this? Think for a moment, people. Odine was already a chief scientist during the flashbacks. How old must the guy be now? Sure, he may have done the groundwork, and he was probably the first to investigate Ellone, but so what? Ulti's time was far in the future, remember? As Odine said, the machine was nothing now, but in Ulti's time it was impressive. How much must have been done, and by how many different scientists? It's a lot easier to reproduce science than it is to develop it in the first place. Destroying the basic machine and even killing Ellone wouldn't prevent it from being reconstructed or developed further in the next hundred years or more. If one person can have this power, so can others.

Seriously, taking the quick and easy way out doesn't usually work.

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Once again, you nail it. :)

either its set in stone or its my crazy doctor who theory. i like mine because its more interesting.

what´s your crazy doctor theory?

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Because if they destroyed the machine, then they would not have gone into the past to destroy it, but if they didnt go back in time it woulnt be destroyed, but if it was made they would have gone to destroy it, but if it was destroyed then they wouldnt have gone to destroy it, but if it wasnt destroyed they wouldnt have gone to destroy it...

and i think a time and space continuum/time paradox (i get the 2 confused) is alot wose than time compression
I think causing the universe to collapse was the last thing they wanted to do

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This is likely that last thing that would happen if they destroyed the machine, as I already explained above, and as has been further embellished upon afterwards.

To sum up things a bit here, there are two answers as to why destroying the machine wouldn't work:

1) If time is set in stone and fate exists in FF8, then destroying it wouldn't help, as that would have been one of the set in stone events leading to Ultimecias acquisition of the Junction Machine Ellone. Something (unspecified exactly what, but it doesn't matter, the point is that something DOES happen) will happen which causes the machine to be built again and expanded upon until Ultimecia gets it.

2) If time is NOT set in stone and fate does not exist in FF8, like Skyblade believes, then Skyblades explanations are probably the best ones to give. To add here, as mentioned many times now, destroying it would probably not cause a paradox, but it doesn't really matter, because they never do destroy it...

Personally, option 1 is the most plausible and logical one, simply because FF8 is saturated with the concept of fate (heck, "Liberi Fatali" itself means "Children of Fate"!). However, I respect people like Skyblade who hold the other position.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

what´s your crazy doctor theory?

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my crazy doctor who style theory is in my post near the start of the thread where i edited it.

Or, you might think of it this way. Ellone tried to change the past with her powers, and finally realized that what she was attempting to do was impossible, you can't change the past. What I find truly interesting about this story is that the beginning and the end happen at the same moment. Edea absorbing Ultimecia's power is both the beginning and the end of the important events of this story. The events of this story merely happen out of chronological order. In the present of this story, Ultimecia being defeated happens in the past (or last bit of the fight at least). You cannot change the past, and therefore, no matter what you might do, Ultimecia will perform time compression, and she will be defeated. It has already happened.

Actually, the paradox idea has quite a bit going for it. For a moment, compare it to the Terminator movies. Anyone who has seen through to Terminator 3 knows that no matter what the good guys do, Judgement Day still happens, and the machines still rise to power. It is said that Judgement Day is "inevitible". Why is that? Is it because of fate? Not at all. Remember, the time machine was created by the machines, not by humans. If you defeated the machines, where would the time machine come from? Though not as obvious of a parrallel, if you defeated Junction Machine Ellone, and Ultimecia didn't come through to the past, how would Squall and company have known they needed to destroy JME? They only know to destroy it because of Ulti's interference with the past. If the stop Ulti's interference, they also eliminate the reason they stopped here interference, which means they wouldn't have stopped her, but then... It's a paradox. Of course, if you believe in a set timeline and fate, it doesn't work. But, if you hold different beliefs, then a paradox could indeed be the cause.

I prefer my previous explanation (the one paradox already in the game is enough for me, no need to add another one), but this argument is definitely valid.

In other words, they couldn't destroy it because it would create a paradox? Ie. time forces people to avoid paradoxes? Sounds suspiciously like a weaker version of fate if you ask me, but anyway...

That's not fate, it's balance. Cause and effect, just that you are seeing the effect before the cause. One thing that exists because of another. The time machine was created by the machines. And thus the terminators are in the past. What makes judgement day happen isn't clear, but whatever happens happens, because judement day happened, the machines rose, time machines were invented by the machines, and here are the terminators. So, as long as the terminator is there in the past, judgement day happens. The former does not exist without the later. Same with time compression. Edea absorbed Ultimecia's power, and that couldn't not have been possible without Time Compression and Ultimecia's defeat. And so, time compression will happen because Edea absorbing Ultimecia has already happened. The later does not exist without the former, and since the later has already happened the former must happen or the later does not exist. And since the later does exist, so does the former.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Actually, the paradox idea has quite a bit going for it. For a moment, compare it to the Terminator movies. Anyone who has seen through to Terminator 3 knows that no matter what the good guys do, Judgement Day still happens, and the machines still rise to power. It is said that Judgement Day is "inevitible". Why is that? Is it because of fate? Not at all. Remember, the time machine was created by the machines, not by humans. If you defeated the machines, where would the time machine come from? Though not as obvious of a parrallel, if you defeated Junction Machine Ellone, and Ultimecia didn't come through to the past, how would Squall and company have known they needed to destroy JME? They only know to destroy it because of Ulti's interference with the past. If the stop Ulti's interference, they also eliminate the reason they stopped here interference, which means they wouldn't have stopped her, but then... It's a paradox. Of course, if you believe in a set timeline and fate, it doesn't work. But, if you hold different beliefs, then a paradox could indeed be the cause.

I prefer my previous explanation (the one paradox already in the game is enough for me, no need to add another one), but this argument is definitely valid.

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I didn't even think about that when i watched T3. I wonder why they didn't explain it. Shouldn't this of caused a time paradox?

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Same with time compression. Edea absorbed Ultimecia's power, and that couldn't not have been possible without Time Compression and Ultimecia's defeat. And so, time compression will happen because Edea absorbing Ultimecia has already happened. The later does not exist without the former, and since the later has already happened the former must happen or the later does not exist. And since the later does exist, so does the former.

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...in other words: they can't destroy the Junction Machine Ellone because those events are set in stone, which is exactly what I said =P

Granted, you don't have to have fate, or postulate that ALL of time is set in stone (you could just say that those events that have already happened are set in stone forever, but that of course leads to questions about what happens you travel back in time....alternate universe?), but what you're saying is exactly the same explanation I give, just limited in scope...

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Actually, the paradox idea has quite a bit going for it. For a moment, compare it to the Terminator movies. Anyone who has seen through to Terminator 3 knows that no matter what the good guys do, Judgement Day still happens, and the machines still rise to power. It is said that Judgement Day is "inevitible". Why is that? Is it because of fate? Not at all. Remember, the time machine was created by the machines, not by humans. If you defeated the machines, where would the time machine come from? Though not as obvious of a parrallel, if you defeated Junction Machine Ellone, and Ultimecia didn't come through to the past, how would Squall and company have known they needed to destroy JME? They only know to destroy it because of Ulti's interference with the past. If the stop Ulti's interference, they also eliminate the reason they stopped here interference, which means they wouldn't have stopped her, but then... It's a paradox. Of course, if you believe in a set timeline and fate, it doesn't work. But, if you hold different beliefs, then a paradox could indeed be the cause.

I prefer my previous explanation (the one paradox already in the game is enough for me, no need to add another one), but this argument is definitely valid.

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The Terminator 3 example is great. Just like in the movie, they destroyed SkyNet but that didnt stop the robots from taking over, they found another way. Even if the JME was destroyed ( it probably wasnt even built yet ), that wouldnt stop Ultimecai from achieving her goal.

Dr Odine would probably know better than anyone on how to beat an evil sorceress. But his ONLY choice was to send Squall and co. to the past. No alternatives...