Jenova & Sephiroth

Well, I dunno, I follow FF7 closely, and lots of BOTH arguments seem valid to me.

As far as I know, none of the ORIGINAL writers of FF7 have given a definitive statement of the story.

Personally, it makes more sense to me that Jenova would be in some sort of control, perhaps using Sephiroth as a puppet. One main factor being the fact that Jenova is an ancient, mystical, otherworldly being, having lived for many years, wiping out entire cultures (Cetra) in the process. The idea that this powerful being would succumb so easily to a human with a few cells injected in during the pregnancy seems laughable to me.

Gotta go back to uni, might return l8r and expand on my reasonings.

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Originally Posted by gyaku_zuki

Personally, it makes more sense to me that Jenova would be in some sort of control, perhaps using Sephiroth as a puppet. One main factor being the fact that Jenova is an ancient, mystical, otherworldly being, having lived for many years, wiping out entire cultures (Cetra) in the process. The idea that this powerful being would succumb so easily to a human with a few cells injected in during the pregnancy seems laughable to me.

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Sorry, just had to counter this. So is it also laughable that a bunch of misfit humans, on a quest to save the Planet no less, stopped Meteor, defeated this so called 'powerful being', defeated Sephiroth and, you know, saved the very Planet? ;)

Touche, although they had a powerful being on their side, namely Aeris and the Planet, who really stopped meteor.

Lol. Sorry, I just had to make the point that the main heroes and characters of FF are normal human beings (for the most part) who manage to overcome all obstacles and defeat these so called 'uber-powerful villains'. So they really couldn't be all that 'uber' as they first appeared to be.

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Originally Posted by gyaku_zuki

Personally, it makes more sense to me that Jenova would be in some sort of control, perhaps using Sephiroth as a puppet.

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if you look closely when fighting BIZZARO Sephiroth it looks alot like the Jenova portion is holding the Sephiroth portion like a puppet ironically

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Originally Posted by Griff

if you look closely when fighting BIZZARO Sephiroth it looks alot like the Jenova portion is holding the Sephiroth portion like a puppet ironically

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Ironic? Perhaps. True? No. The game writers have made the point clear.

It's too bad they never translate those Ultimania's. I have a feeling this wouldn't be happening right now if they did. Ah well. :cat:

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Originally Posted by Amaru

Ironic? Perhaps. True? No. The game writers have made the point clear.

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Like has been said before, the writer's are going to tell the people what they want if it will help business. Since a vast majority of fans want to believe that emo momma's boy is the greatest villian of all time, the idea of him being controlled would tarnish his image, and alot of people don't want that. If the people aren't led to believe afterwards that Sephy was the main villian, then sales of AC, BC, CC, and DC will drop because ff7 has the largest fanboy totals in the world, and if they don't get what they want, you just know alot of them are going to boycott the other projects.

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Originally Posted by Griff

Like has been said before, the writer's are going to tell the people what they want if it will help business. Since a vast majority of fans want to believe that emo momma's boy is the greatest villian of all time, the idea of him being controlled would tarnish his image, and alot of people don't want that. If the people aren't led to believe afterwards that Sephy was the main villian, then sales of AC, BC, CC, and DC will drop because ff7 has the largest fanboy totals in the world, and if they don't get what they want, you just know alot of them are going to boycott the other projects.

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I think it's rather sad. At first, I just thought that you were misguided and misinformed, since you tried throwing non-existent plot holes about the game around, but now it's quite clear that you're another of the 'anti-everything FFVII' camp. You don't give the game any credits, you don't give the main villain any credit, you don't give any of it's fans any credit, and you don't even give the game writer's any credit.

Like I said, I think it's rather sad...

I think both arguments make valid points. And honestly, out of the three villains in the FFVII world (ShinRa, Sephiroth, and JENOVA), I believe JENOVA to be the bigger threat.

But, Sephiroth WAS the main villain. The party focuses almost entirely on Sephiroth and his plan to destroy the planet with Meteor, and NOT on JENOVA. Sure, JENOVA may have been a bigger threat, but she was not as focused on as Sephiroth was.

It is my belief that both Seph and JENOVA had different goals. This is ultimately what differentiates the two. Seph wanted to gather all of the energy from the Lifestream and become a god. JENOVA's intentions were simply to just destroy and move on to another planet.

Apart from most likely having the ability to control Seph, I didn't think JENOVA was very proactive towards her cause throughout the course of the story. If she did, in fact, control Sephiroth, why would he formulate this new plan of his which seemed to differ from her ultimate intentions? My point is, Seph took action, and was featured much more prominently throughout the course of the game, making him the main focus and ultimately the main villain.

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Originally Posted by Amaru

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Originally Posted by Griff

Like has been said before, the writer's are going to tell the people what they want if it will help business. Since a vast majority of fans want to believe that emo momma's boy is the greatest villian of all time, the idea of him being controlled would tarnish his image, and alot of people don't want that. If the people aren't led to believe afterwards that Sephy was the main villian, then sales of AC, BC, CC, and DC will drop because ff7 has the largest fanboy totals in the world, and if they don't get what they want, you just know alot of them are going to boycott the other projects.

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I think it's rather sad. At first, I just thought that you were misguided and misinformed, since you tried throwing non-existent plot holes about the game around, but now it's quite clear that you're another of the 'anti-everything FFVII' camp. You don't give the game any credits, you don't give the main villain any credit, you don't give any of it's fans any credit, and you don't even give the game writer's any credit.

Like I said, I think it's rather sad...

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And it seems to me that you give the game TOO MUCH credit, you give the makers TOO MUCH credit, you give the fanboys/girls/n00bs TOO MUCH credit and... yeah, you get the idea.

And while I'm not from the "anti-VII camp" I certainly don't think is something to be exited about. Won't go in depth. So don't start asking why I dislike it. Cause that's off-topic.

Excuse me? When did I hail the game as the best? When did I hail Sephiroth as the greatest villain of all time? When did I hail FFVII fans as the best group out there? The only insight into myself that you have here is me defending the game against people making up plot holes and denying the main villain.

Next time perhaps you should read posts properly before being so judgemental about people.

What a nice, calm thread :p

Really Amaru, you should keep an open mind. There are valid points on both sides of this discussion, and like I said before, none of the original writers have definitively said ANYTHING conclusive about the storyline. So I wouldn't use them as fact.

Denying the main villain? What, is he gonna be INSULTED? Let's all remember its just a game, lets not get all fanboy/girl on ppl.

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Originally Posted by gyaku_zuki

What a nice, calm thread :p

Really Amaru, you should keep an open mind. There are valid points on both sides of this discussion, and like I said before, none of the original writers have definitively said ANYTHING conclusive about the storyline. So I wouldn't use them as fact.

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Of course you wouldn't, as your dead set on Jenova being classed as the main villain, whether the official writers, official resources, or anyone else says otherwise. ;)

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Originally Posted by gyaku_zuki

Denying the main villain? What, is he gonna be INSULTED? Let's all remember its just a game, lets not get all fanboy/girl on ppl.

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Look up 'denying' in the dictionary. Your denying the fact that Sephiroth was the main villain of the game by directly stating that Jenova was. That's hardly fanboy material. It's simple logic. :p

Anyway, I dont think there is any definate answers to this question, the writers have left some areas pretty open ended to guess, but not to many that would sink the main plot like silent hill. Credit to the writers on that.
Sephy is usually refered on the whole more as the target, So I would say he is a main villain, with Jenova being a more descrite villain, Probably more "evil" or whatever, but the fact she operates away from the spotlight doesn't make her the main target of the Clouds conquest and thus, not the main villain.
Then there is the point, Its NEVER stated how Jenova felt towards Sephy, if anything at all. Square may have intended her to not care one atom about him but to further her own plan, she may well have not cared about using him or killing him, As long as she got what she wanted, she may well of been using Sephy, Seeing how deluded and mad he is, I dont think he would actually known.