Keyblade Confusion | Spoilers for KH1&2

When Riku told Sora that he was just the delivery boy, it seemed to me to be just more mind games to weaken Sora's heart. When he had a moment of weakness the Keyblade seemed to have chosen a new master (at the time, Riku), and then Sora regained it inside HB when he was going to fight with the wooden sword.

I don't think I believe the delivery boy theory.

As for King Mickey's Keyblade, I can't really believe the dark realm theory just because there is no evidence to support it other than the introverted colours.

If the Keyblade that Riku used in KH1 was made of six of the seven princesses' hearts, perhaps that's what all Keyblades are? Someone with a strong heart gains a Keyblade, it represents the strength they hold within. However this does not explain the reason Kairi can wield a Keyblade Riku gives her, but it could.

If a Keyblade is a token of a strong heart, and all hearts contain light and dark, that is what a Keyblade is made of. Perhaps Kairi was unable to form one because she was one of the Seven Princesses, there was no darkness to form a Keyblade?

That is pure invention on my part, but it seems plausible to me.

Hopefully these questions will be explained in a KH sequel (if there is one).

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Originally Posted by aisle_s

When Riku told Sora that he was just the delivery boy, it seemed to me to be just more mind games to weaken Sora's heart. When he had a moment of weakness the Keyblade seemed to have chosen a new master (at the time, Riku), and then Sora regained it inside HB when he was going to fight with the wooden sword.

I don't think I believe the delivery boy theory.

As for King Mickey's Keyblade, I can't really believe the dark realm theory just because there is no evidence to support it other than the introverted colours.

If the Keyblade that Riku used in KH1 was made of six of the seven princesses' hearts, perhaps that's what all Keyblades are? Someone with a strong heart gains a Keyblade, it represents the strength they hold within. However this does not explain the reason Kairi can wield a Keyblade Riku gives her, but it could.

If a Keyblade is a token of a strong heart, and all hearts contain light and dark, that is what a Keyblade is made of. Perhaps Kairi was unable to form one because she was one of the Seven Princesses, there was no darkness to form a Keyblade?

That is pure invention on my part, but it seems plausible to me.

Hopefully these questions will be explained in a KH sequel (if there is one).

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I base this on the fact that it appears in the Journal in KHI, stating that Riku is the true Master. If it had not been mentioned in the Journal, even AFTER Riku said so, then it would mean that the statement too, was a mind game. It's a bit hard to believe, but it does cover up most of the plot in one statement. Of course, we could be wrong.

In KHI and KHII, it says that Mickey and Ansem had explored the possibility of using the Darkness. However, once the experiments got too dangerous, Mickey urged Ansem to stop, and he agreed 100%. But Xehanort, Braig, Dilan, Even, Ienzo, and Elaeus continued. It would stand to seem that Mickey obviously has knowledge of the Darkness, if not the Dark World.

It could be. This could be potentially supported by the "every Heart gets a Keyblade if it fights the Heartless." There's nothing WRONG with what was said, per se. The last two statements are closely related, and highly plausible. Nothing is WRONG, but it only explains one part of the story. Of course, since the Keyblade is so enigmatic, perhaps it needs an entire theory devoted to itself, supported by nits and parts of other theories.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

I base this on the fact that it appears in the Journal in KHI, stating that Riku is the true Master. If it had not been mentioned in the Journal, even AFTER Riku said so, then it would mean that the statement too, was a mind game. It's a bit hard to believe, but it does cover up most of the plot in one statement. Of course, we could be wrong.

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It doesn't say he "is" the keyblade master, it says he "was" the keyblade master. This is what Jiminy says about Riku in KHI:

"When Kairi lost her heart, Riku allied himself with Maleficent to save her. Riku was actually the rightful master of the Keyblade, but once he chose darkness over light, the weapon chose Sora instead. Ansem exploited Riku's weakness of heart and possessed him."

Sora wasn't the delivery boy, the keyblade chose him. By this wording, it would seem that somehow Riku was chosen in the past to have the keyblade one day when it chose a master. But just because it was going to chose Riku, doesn't mean that when Riku was no longer a candidate that it didn't chose Sora. It's not like Sora just stumbled on it, the keyblade chose him. And when Sora showed the true strength of his heart it chose him even in the presence of Riku, for that moment when Riku was also showing the true strength of his heart. So the keyblade belongs to Sora, despite what may have been in the past. That whole delivery boy line was just an insult to make Sora feel bad.

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Originally Posted by aisle_s

As for King Mickey's Keyblade, I can't really believe the dark realm theory just because there is no evidence to support it other than the introverted colours.

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there is evidence to support the dark realm theory - it says it in jiminy's journal in one of the character files on mickey. it clearly states that mickey found the dark realm's keyblade and wields it.

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It's not Way to the Dawn until Spoiler: You kill Saix, Xigbar, Luxord, and DiZ dies in WtNW. Until then, it is his Dark Blade, Soul Eater, that he used against Sora in KHI.

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wrong he has that keyblade before you fight saix and such believe me I am there now and luxord is incredibly tough

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Originally Posted by Neo Blackheart

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It's not Way to the Dawn until you kill Saix, Xigbar, Luxord, and DiZ dies in WtNW. Until then, it is his Dark Blade, Soul Eater, that he used against Sora in KHI.

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wrong he has that keyblade before you fight saix and such believe me I am there now and luxord is incredibly tough

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You don't get Way to the Dawn until after DiZ dies, which is when you can choose Riku as a playable characther (well, party ally, to be more precise). The difference between the two blades is a small triangle at the tip of the blade; the Soul Eater lacks it. Also, inside Proof of Existence, Riku states that "I doubt you yet need to use my blade, the Soul Eater," or something close to that, which indicates that Way to the Dawn has not yet formed.

I am there (SPOILER)When riku still looks like ansem he gives the keyblade to kairi who then fights the heartless with Riku. riku is using the blade with the thing that looks like a wing on the end that makes it a keyblade

I'm starting to wonder if the concept of a Keyblade for the Light and Dark sides is a misinterpretation. The obvious implication in Kingdom Hearts was that there was one for the Realm of Light, which Sora posessed, and one for the Realm of Darkness, which Mickey is shown with at the end. This theory is flexed in the Deep Dive video when we can see the dual wielding unknown (later revealed to be Roxas) using Oathkeeper and Oblivion at the same time, and later we see three keyblades in a single shot (Riku with Oblivion, Roxas with Oathkeeper and Mickey's Kingdom Key). There's mention of "the third key" in the video, which would seem to point to Riku's ability to wield one as well.

This is problematic, though, because if the King and Riku have Keyblades, and Sora is able to use two at a time, that's still four keyblades. Combine that with the scene from the hidden ending in Kingdom Hearts II where there's literally an entire field of keyblades, and it doesn't take long to realize that the "one blade for either side of the Door" theory can't work.

I'm starting to think that the idea of the Keyblade for the Light and Dark sides is applicable to a single person; more specifically, that it is applicable to the Light and Dark sides of the heart. Riku is able to weild a keyblade both before and after he succumbs to darkness, signifying he's mastered that part of his heart, and he remains able to do so when he shifts to the middle ground. Mickey has had to confront darkness as well in journeying to the other side of the door, so it'd make sense for him to be able to wield that blade.

Sora, at one point, faulters, and in what may be a deeper symbolic display surrenders the keyblade to Riku. When he is rejoined by Donald and Goofy, he's able to take control of and master himself, and the keyblade returns to him. However, when his heart is claimed by darkness and he becomes a Heartless, Roxas is created as a Nobody and also has the ability to weild the Keyblade. Roxas can sort of be seen as a manifestation of Sora confronting darkness and mastering it, because he carries few of Sora's memories due to the length of time that Sora spent as a Heartless. Because of that, then, Sora has mastered both sides of his heart and is able to weild the keyblades of either side of it.

This also signifies that the Keyblade can be used for intentionally malicious purposes, shedding some light on Ansem Report 9, in which "one legend says its wielder saved the world, while another says he wrought chaos and ruin upon it."

I realize that there are a lot of things with this logic that can be faulty, seeing as the Journal clearly states that Mickey is wielding that blade for the realm of darkness, but at the moment it's the best I can do. It sort of plays into the idea that everyone who fights the Heartless has a keyblade, but not quite. I think it's clear that it takes a certain amount of internal strength to unlock the ability to use the Keyblade, as we never see Kairi or other characters use them. The significance of what it truly means to be a "Keyblade Master," as well as the scene in which Riku takes the Keyblade from Sora, will probably have to be examined pretty closely, but I wanted to get the idea down to see what your opinions on this idea were.

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Originally Posted by ThaJinx

This is problematic, though, because if the King and Riku have Keyblades, and Sora is able to use two at a time, that's still four keyblades. Combine that with the scene from the hidden ending in Kingdom Hearts II where there's literally an entire field of keyblades, and it doesn't take long to realize that the "one blade for either side of the Door" theory can't work.

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While most theories are conjecture, the speech of Xigbar best explains how there are so many Keyblades (One Keyblade for each Heart that fights against a Heartless). Of course, that itself brings up a myriad of questions and problems, of which I am not adequate in answering. It could be there there are two PRIMARY Keyblades, one for each side, but as I said before, it's mostly conjecture. It is possible to work; it's just much more complicated now.

How Sora can wield two is either the mastery of his Heart, or that when he is split, he is rejoined, and allows him to use 2 (doesn't explain how Roxas can do it, but that can be fixed by the fact that Sora must have the ability to do as such, otherwise Roxas would not be able to). Or possibly some combination of the two ideas.

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I am there

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Screenshots?

with what my eyes I have no camera or dvd burner or I would burn the entire WTNW

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Originally Posted by Neo Blackheart

with what my eyes I have no camera or dvd burner or I would burn the entire WTNW

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Yes, with your eyes! The image must forever be scalded into your flesh and brain, in order to provide proof. The very image that you see first in your eyes will always be Riku holding a sword (Soul Eater), and not a Keyblade (Way to the Dawn).

Failing such an attempt, leave the PS2 and TV on, so that the image is burnt onto the TV screen (it can be done, surprisingly enough), and take a picture of it, and find a scanner. When the TV has at last been set on fire by the unholiness of the vision, throw it out the window, get a new TV, give us the picture, and go about your merry way as though nothing happened.

Yes, I completely expect you to burn the image with your eyes, and from that, find a computer program that converts retinal images to binary code, and translates it back into something that other people can use. It's called Photoshop. Absolutely.

Or you could fake an image and expect me to believe it. Whatever works for you.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

Screenshots?

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Better, video. (I got your back Neo Blackheart :tongue: )

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zW5m5-Xmb...20meets%20riku

It's in Japanese, and not the best quality, but it's good enough to see what you need to see. Look at what Riku is holding (and in these scenes DiZ is still alive). Riku is definately holding a keyblade. It has a keychain and everything.

The thing that I just now noticed though, Kairi's keyblade, the keychain on that keyblade. It's what Namine turned Kairi's good luck charm for Sora into in Chain of Memories. Never noticed that before, that's pretty cool.

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Originally Posted by SeeDRankLou

Better, video.

The thing that I just now noticed though, Kairi's keyblade, the keychain on that keyblade. It's what Namine turned Kairi's good luck charm for Sora into in Chain of Memories. Never noticed that before, that's pretty cool.

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I'll take your word for it. But I still expect him to all the stuff that I told him to do in my previous post.

maybe sora and roxas can wield two because of how close they are to kairi


roxas has part of kairi in him and since she can woeld one maybe he can manifest both sora and kairi's power

and sora wields 2 when his power is strengthened by the suit

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Originally Posted by SeeDRankLou

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

Screenshots?

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Better, video. (I got your back Neo Blackheart :tongue: )

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zW5m5-Xmb...20meets%20riku

It's in Japanese, and not the best quality, but it's good enough to see what you need to see. Look at what Riku is holding (and in these scenes DiZ is still alive). Riku is definately holding a keyblade. It has a keychain and everything.

The thing that I just now noticed though, Kairi's keyblade, the keychain on that keyblade. It's what Namine turned Kairi's good luck charm for Sora into in Chain of Memories. Never noticed that before, that's pretty cool.

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Agreed.

I still opt that dual wielding signifies mastering one's heart. It seems clear that that's not a keyblade that belongs specifically to Kairi, because Riku calls it and gives it to her. It makes more sense that it would be his, because a huge part of KH2's plot is the revelation that Riku as mastered himself as well. You never see him wield two at once, but he does call two into his presense with a very short interval between either one, and he willingly gives one of them to Kairi.

For all I know, the keyblade IS Kairi's, seeing as the chain is the one that Namini made in Chain of Memories. I wonder, though, if she could truly be a keyblade master since her heart is decidedly a special case (it's stated that she is an anomoly and has no darkness in her heart). For now, though, since Riku calls the blade into being, I'm going to assume that it's his.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

How Sora can wield two is either the mastery of his Heart, or that when he is split, he is rejoined, and allows him to use 2 (doesn't explain how Roxas can do it, but that can be fixed by the fact that Sora must have the ability to do as such, otherwise Roxas would not be able to). Or possibly some combination of the two ideas.

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Yeah, I think that the two ideas are tied. Sora's split with Roxas is caused by his being taken by darkness, and the point where they rejoin is the final step in his journey back from that, at which point he's mastered his heart.