, but:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeza
Printable View
, but:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeza
I had Linux SUSE on my computer with windows 98 a few years ago. I didn't really see the point of having 2 OS's though. Neither of them did anything the other couldn't.
I've been using Linux on and off for.. over 10 years now I think.
It's good fun, a great learning experience and of course has some of the best ever ideals (the whole thing is based on caring and sharing)
BUT there are also several reasons why I would still not consider using it as a full-time desktop OS on my primary PC:
* I do a lot of photography. No matter what the GIMP evangelists say, it will not touch Photoshop - it doesn't even come close. GIMP is great for the price though, don't get me wrong. There is also nothing that will touch BreezeBrowser when it comes to processing RAW files. I did get a Linux equivalent going after about 4-5 hours of troubleshooting compile problems (I'll get to that in a minute) and it felt half-finished compared with BB.
* Games. This is the reason I also don't have a Mac as a primary machine, and IMO it's even worse in Linux (you can't get World of Warcraft in Linux without botching it with Cedega for example, whilst you can on a Mac). Linux evangelists always say "But you can run Unreal Tournament! That's all the gaming you need!" - erm, no it's not. I like a choice of games. Linux has a choice of about 10 commercial game ports, Windows has tens of thousands. Cedega helps with some popular Windows-only games, but it always feels sluggish and glitchy compared to running the game natively on Windows.
* Going against "the norm". Oh, it's fine if you run a standard computer with a standard printer and only use it for standard apps (office package, web browser, etc). 'apt-get install foo' (Ubuntu is fantastic) and you're done. But you just wait until you want an unusual app (seemingly, RAW processing apps are still often considered 'unusual') that's not part of the package repository, or you need the latest version that supports 'x feature' and the binary package hasn't been updated for 6 months, or you want to use an unusual piece of hardware. Now you need to compile it yourself, and in my experience it's very rarely a simple matter of "./configure; make; make install". And wait - you didn't expect it to install an icon on the launch menu did you?
* Multiple standards. How ironic. I've got a choice of about 50 half-baked apps that do the same thing, when all I want is one decent one.
Or you have a choice of about 100 different distros that are all based on the same OS but do things ever so slightly differently. This is a nightmare for non-geek developers. Where should they put file soandso because each distro puts the file in a different place? Result - they have to provide versions for Ubuntu, SuSe, Redhat, Mandriva, Debian, blah blah blah... so they get annoyed at the whole process and don't maintain a Linux version of their software.
Don't even get me started on KDE and GNOME competing. Developer: "Yes, of course you can have a system tray icon - but only if you're using KDE. I don't know how to do one for GNOME." - grrreat.
I guess the bottom line is, like everything else there are pros and cons and you have to make a decision on what to use depending on what you need. Linux has many significant advantages as outlined in the OP. Personally speaking, whilst I enjoy tinkering around with Linux, I don't have time to any more - there are other things I prefer doing these days. It's now at the point where my time is valuable enough to me to justify paying Microsoft, Apple and Adobe for professionally-developed "you handle the headaches - just let me get on with my work" kind of software so that I can get on with my work / surfing / gaming and not have to invest half a day to install support for my new phone. I'm not worried about viruses or spyware - so long as you're a reasonably educated PC user and don't go clicking on every toolbar offer or fake dialog box that pops up, you're safe. I haven't had a virus or a piece of spyware for years and years.
However, please do try it. If you have the time and inclination to persevere, it can be very rewarding. Plus, the more people who use it the more companies will support it and the better most of the above situations will get. And you really can't beat having an advanced graphical OS, office package, photo manipulation software, stacks of games, music players etc etc all for $0.00.
To address Loony's list:
Yes, through Crossover Office, but read the fine print. Some apps such as Access are very flaky or only work in older versions e.g. Access 2000. You'd be better off with OpenOffice - you can get this for Windows so that you can evaluate it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
AIM (with DeadAIM)
Only through gaim, which is a free alternative. Don't expect to be able to do any of the 'fancy' features like webcams etc (although I'm not sure how far gaim has come since I last used it). There is an official AIM for Linux, but it hasn't been updated for yonks.
Y!M
Yes, this is available. Again, I'm not sure if it has all the bells and whistles of the Windows version.
mIRC
Through WINE, yes it should work. For a native alternative, x-chat.
Winamp (with Last.fm)
No idea if it's supported in WINE. Probably not, as most people see xmms as a viable alternative, as do I - it seems to work the same and look the same. It appears that there is indeed a last.fm client for Linux.
CuteHTML
Again, WINE unknown. There is a huge choice of alternative HTML editors out there, but if you don't want alternatives then Linux isn't really for you... you're going to be crossing your fingers and trying things in WINE with mixed success, when you would be better off running them natively in Windows. By running (or trying to run) all Windows software on it you'd also be bypassing the main advantages of having Linux in the first place (software that is both free and Free).
eMule
lmule, the official port, hasn't been updated for ages.
Alternative - amule
WINE - unknown
IrfanView
There are various alternatives. This is probably like BreezeBrowser in that *parts* of it might work in WINE but nothing native to Linux will touch it.
FTP Wanderer
Probably not, never heard of it. Again, gFTP.
Media Player Classic
I think this ought to work under Crossover Office. Whilst of course the newer versions of Media Player do not. If you wanted it for Real Alternative, don't worry - there are several other "Real Alternative" alternatives for Linux.
MS Paint
*Shudder* there are many better alternatives on both platforms, but if you insist, yes. It was one of the first things working in WINE.
Azureus
Yes - Linux version
mIRCStats
Possibly, in WINE. No idea on alternatives.
DigiGuide
Sadly, no. The developer is also adamant that he will never make a Linux version. Some people have reported success with WINE, but AFAIK it doesn't work with newer versions of Digiguide and I never had any luck with the updater. I never found a decent alternative. This was one thing that I really really missed when trying to run Linux full-time.
VideoLAN (VLC)
No problem. This was originally developed for Linux, I think, and does have a Linux (and everything else) version.
Trillian
Sorry, no. Last time I tried, it didn't work in WINE either. Best alternative is gaim. Linux isn't fantastic for instant messengers, IMO.
Arcsoft PhotoStudio
Very unlikely to work in WINE, it's too "weird". Alternative = GIMP
Adobe Acrobat
Yep. In the non-free repositories or downloaded directly from Adobe.
DotColor
I doubt it - it'd be relying on the Windows display model so I doubt it'd pick any thing up off the Linux desktop. Maybe there'd be an alternative, unsure.
Cloudane hit the nail on its head, but I'll give some personal input anyway.
Did you know:
Looking better than windows is highly subjective, and there are tons of things you can do to make windows look different.
It cannot do many of the things Windows can.
Hardware support is still quite a bit behind what Windows has.
It comes default with tons of software you'll probably never need.
It offers a lot more configuration options than Windows, if you're a hard core computer enthusiast. If not, it just offers a little bit more.
Don't get me wrong though, I like Linux a lot for servers, but that's probably how it'll be for quite some time to come. It simply doesn't have what I need on my desktop and laptop, and I don't see a reason to spend hours on hours configuring WINE or Cedega (one of the games I play the most has been proven practically impossible to make work in Cedega), when Windows does what I need right out of the box, and never crashes, get viruses or spyware anyway. Oh, now that I think of it, that's a lie. I got infected once when I downloaded a crack I knew was from a bogus site, and it has crashed maybe four times since I installed XP in 2002, one of them being because of faulty hardware.
I can't list all the things that don't work in Linux, there are too many differences. Same as I couldn't list all the things Windows can't do that Linux can. It depends what you use your computer for. Cloudane's rundown of the apps you listed is accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Windows is the best operating systems for running Windows programs. If you don't want to use alternative Linux versions of anything, then there's no point ever using Linux.
In a sense. You can deny people permission to view your folders or files. File permissions part of the filesystem (i.e. they are an integral, unavoidable part of how the computer works). You can see files or not depending on what user you are logged in as, so in that sense it is sort of password protected (via your login password).Quote:
Is it possible to password protect folders? Always was interested in that possibility.
[qq=Cloudane]No matter what the GIMP evangelists say, it will not touch Photoshop - it doesn't even come close.[/qq]
VMWare works pretty well for this.
[qq]But you just wait until you want an unusual app (seemingly, RAW processing apps are still often considered 'unusual') that's not part of the package repository, or you need the latest version that supports 'x feature' and the binary package hasn't been updated for 6 months, or you want to use an unusual piece of hardware. Now you need to compile it yourself, and in my experience it's very rarely a simple matter of "./configure; make; make install".[/qq]
This is also a problem with Windows, except in Windows you can't even try to compile it yourself.
[qq]Multiple standards. How ironic. I've got a choice of about 50 half-baked apps that do the same thing, when all I want is one decent one.[/qq]
Valid argument in some cases. FTP clients in Linux are one example of having 100 really sucky apps and not a single really killer one (unless you like the command line, which has some really nice apps like ncftp).
[qq]Or you have a choice of about 100 different distros that are all based on the same OS but do things ever so slightly differently. This is a nightmare for non-geek developers. Where should they put file soandso because each distro puts the file in a different place? Result - they have to provide versions for Ubuntu, SuSe, Redhat, Mandriva, Debian, blah blah blah... so they get annoyed at the whole process and don't maintain a Linux version of their software.[/qq]
This is still a problem, but much less a problem nowadays than it used to be. There are tools for example that convert RPMs to debs. As the community grows, more and more volunteers are around to port apps to their distros as necessary. I can't remember the last time I couldn't find a package for something, or find an explanation online for how to install something manually very easily.
But I am not a normal user, so you may be right, it may be hard for people.
[qq]Don't even get me started on KDE and GNOME competing. Developer: "Yes, of course you can have a system tray icon - but only if you're using KDE. I don't know how to do one for GNOME." - grrreat.[/qq]
I have not experienced this in a very long time. There is a lot of movement to standardize desktop-related things like this. When an icon is added to the "start menu" for example, it pretty reliably appears in Gnome and KDE both. Icon themes for both DEs are very nearly the same format. System tray seems to always work for both or neither.
[qq]I guess the bottom line is, like everything else there are pros and cons and you have to make a decision on what to use depending on what you need.[/qq]
This is entirely true.
[qq=Mirage]It simply doesn't have what I need on my desktop and laptop[/qq]
Like what, aside from gaming?
I used Knoppix yonks ago. =)
To kill Microsoft in the work place, you now have to kill the office suite with something better than MSoffice (Open office is not there yet) and especially above all, exchange.
And yes, Gimp can touch and obliterate photoshop in most any area. if not, learn to script.
Linux is better alright... it just is! ;) Unfortunately I haven't the time atm to write a decent review, but I like what I am seeing here in this thread.
I guess I'm in a position where using Linux on my current PC would not be practical for most of the activities I use my PC for outside of web-browsing and watching/listening to media. Still, hopefully I'll get a second PC someday and will be able to give it a decent shot. Maybe by then things will also be more suited to my needs.
Yes, if there's another positive thing to say, it's improving all the time.
Needless to say it's also far easier to install than Windows (at least with modern distros like Ubuntu). With the exception of a decreasing number of WinModems, most internal hardware is supported out of the box, so there's no Driver Hell to contend with. If there's one very big advantage, especially with second-hand hardware, that is it... no hunting around on Driverguide, phew! That and all the apps are installed for you.
The ftp thing is one of my main complaints in Linux. No good GUI-based ftp client. Your best bet is to VMWare or WINE Filezilla.
As of Ubuntu 5.10 all my hardware was recognized by default. I only had to edit fstab to automatically mount my external drive at bootup. Although I'm pretty sure there's a way to do it without editing files.
KDE and Gnome are very similar nowadays and there's definite cross-compatibility that the developers work on. Like Unne said, basic things like menu items appearing right in both desktop environments and system tray icons working in both, are realities now.
I'll agree that Photoshop is a better image editing program than The GIMP, but the $400 difference between the two pretty much voids that argument for the common consumer.
Mirage: I guarantee you that if you were to get a group of people to look at a Windows desktop (as heavily modified as you could get it) and at a Linux desktop (using Beryl), nine out of ten people would be more impressed with the Linux desktop. Better font rendering, bigger icons, smoother window decorations. Not to mention 3D desktops, blur effects, animation effects and transparency effects. Hell I could make it rain on my desktop as an entirely useless feature, but it looks awesome.
Vista is getting closer with its 3D desktop switching and transparency effects, but what Vista is going to do has already been done on the Linux desktop and then some.
Actually, that was going to be my example for "lots of half-baked apps that do the same thing" but there is some good news in terms of FTP clients now :D
It's definitely good to hear that KDE and GNOME are working together a little, having different menu systems and tray icons was one of the major bugbears for me.
Daemon ToolsQuote:
Originally Posted by Nominus Experse
Daemon Tools runs under Windows. I don't know of any virtual drive that can be kept in RAM during a bootup. Aside from imaging a full Linux install on your HDD (which is complicated if you want to dual boot), your best bet is to order the Ubuntu CDs off their site. It's free. They pay shipping and everything. It usually comes within 4-6 weeks.
I'm using Ubuntu right now. It's what I always use. It is infinitely better than Microsoft, and is also not made by money grabbing bastards.
Oh yeah, it also takes about an hour to install FULLY. Microsoft takes forever to install partially.
A wise man once said "Linux is only free if you place no value on your free time".
Were I to use my computer for more than games, browsing the interwebs, writing reports for university and the occasional bit of graphic design, I'm sure I'd be more inclined to explore alternative OS options.
However, considering how everything I need can be done easily in Windows XP and with a good amount of stability because I'm hardly straining things, I like to stick with what I have.
Linux tempted me at one point in time, but then I realised, what would I really use it for? I'd spend forever customising it and learning every little part of it because I tend to have an obsession over perfection; then I'd just settle down and use it for all the stuff I can already do in XP.
That and a lot of people I know who use and idolize Linux are almost as bad as Apple Hipsters *shudder*