Character classes?

And your point is well understood Setharion, as is everyones. The matter of the debate is simple you cant have a Role playing game (RPG) if you don't have role's to set each characters strengths and weaknesses. Just like in there own personality's they have pro's and con's so do there ability's shine or dim in battle. Each character once in a while needs his own time to shine, but it looks like basche can handle everything from here...

Besides whats the point of the license system then anyway if not to limit and control the way a characters ability's advance through the game then what. Iam in my mid 40's with my characters now and ive rounded up enough points to give them every license on the board thats a total of 15,000 points for the license's.

In other words magick (yes thats what we call it in FF12) has become a useless and pointless class system. Theres only the headstrong death magick and axe wielding barbarian/time wizard/white mage/black mage/green mage/sage/fighter/dragoon/sniper/archer/solid snake (:p) Basch....

My character setup

Vaan - Thief/Warrior with Greatsword
Ashe - Paladin with White Magic, Sword and Shield
Balthier - Thief with Poles
Basch - Warrior with Axes and Shield
Fran - Black Mage with Arcane Magic and Bows
Penelo - Summoner/White Mage with Time Magic, Green Magic, and Staves

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Diango12

And your point is well understood Setharion, as is everyones. The matter of the debate is simple you cant have a Role playing game (RPG) if you don't have role's to set each characters strengths and weaknesses. Just like in there own personality's they have pro's and con's so do there ability's shine or dim in battle. Each character once in a while needs his own time to shine, but it looks like basch can handle everything from here...

Now just like there are classes in RPG's so there is to in forums. For example there is the class of people who like to contribute to the threads and debates and keep a discussion healthy and alive, then there is the second class of people who like to whine, complain and generally spam a thread with "this is pointless" "stop talking about this" blah blah etc etc...

Besides whats the point of the license system then anyway if not to limit and control the way a characters ability's advance through the game then what. Iam in my mid 40's with my characters now and ive rounded up enough points to give them every license on the board thats a total of 15,000 points for the license's.

In other words magick (yes thats what we call it in FF12) has become a useless and pointless class system. Theres only the headstrong death magick and axe wielding barbarian/time wizard/white mage/black mage/green mage/sage/fighter/dragoon/sniper/archer/solid snake (:p) Basch....

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lol that was funny about Basche, but i agree because its the same with me.

But its funny how people will try to convince us thats how RPGs are meant to be...bah, im tellin ya...the death to this genre is a slow one but its sure coming. Because eventually there will be no structrue to the roots, people just fluff it just because they dont want even a single hinderence. I dont get it to be honest, i just dont get it.

So you're supposed to have classes? Wow, all my life I've been completely wrong! I have been aiding in the slow decay of the RPG series!


That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I believe the point of RPGs is to reach your goal and NOT die, regardless of the path you choose. Either way, I don't have any classes. I find myself going through the game just fine. The fact that I recently realized that enemies respawn makes me happy. Now I can stay in a place and build up super chains.

So you're supposed to have classes? Wow, all my life I've been completely wrong! I have been aiding in the slow decay of the RPG series!


That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I believe the point of RPGs is to reach your goal and NOT die, regardless of the path you choose.

lol i honestly have no words for that.

Setharion, it’s rather pompous of you to assume that you better understand the genre than anyone else. Explaining that you’ve played RPGs for years adds nothing to your argument, except to give the impression that you’re stuck with the “I was here first,” mentality that somehow makes your opinion worth more than anyone else’s.

You call these changes the death of the genre; I call that a load of crap. Perhaps it’s the death of the restricted definition that you have in your head, but it seems to me that the genre is doing just fine expanding and evolving. As I stated earlier in the thread, these changes are nothing new—the genre has been headed in this direction for a decade now. One would think one would get used to the changes during such a long period of time.

You said “its funny how people will try to convince us thats how RPGs are meant to be…” I think it’s funny how you’re trying to convince others that the class system is the way RPGs are “meant to be.” Honestly, if everything had such a static and rigid definition, it would get boring after a while. RPGs without job classes are selling well, and that’s all any video game developer cares about—making money. If so many people thought that it was the bastardization of the genre, there’d be no market for such games, and it would be straight back to the good old days.

Don’t misunderstand my words, though. Personally, I much prefer the job class system. I enjoy the challenges it presents to the player, and the additional strategic elements created by assigning specific roles to different character. I’d much rather see things continue as they were. I am contented, though, by the fact that I can still assign specific roles if I so choose. Sure, character clones can be disappointing, but I’m not about to throw a hissy fit over it.

The way I see it, you’re just another guy who thinks you’re somehow better than anyone else because you’re an old school, hardcore gamer. Perhaps that’s not quite on the money, but that’s my guess. Either way, you can’t deny the condescending tone you’ve assumed in every post you’ve made. So yes sir, you are on your high horse, and I think it would be best if you come down, because I have a very hard time taking you seriously when you say things like “I have my opinion, you guys have yours,” when that’s obviously not the way you feel.

I don't really follow classes.

I never use Fran, Vaan, and Balthier anymore (I will later, but not at the moment...).

Basch is my melee person.
Ashe is a mix of melee and magic.
Penelo, having two Mist Charges and the highest original MP, is my magic person.

FFTA is a totally different story. I prefer classes there, although that backup set of skills is always nice, considering laws limit what a character can do sometimes.

Classes in RPGs have been a benchmark to the genre, so no, its not me saying how its meant to be, its the genre itself that should be enough to show the way it should be.

Classes are one of the major definements of RPGs , if you disagree then well, i just have nothing for that. /shrug

The way I see it, you’re just another guy who thinks you’re somehow better than anyone else because you’re an old school, hardcore gamer. Perhaps that’s not quite on the money, but that’s my guess. Either way, you can’t deny the condescending tone you’ve assumed in every post you’ve made. So yes sir, you are on your high horse, and I think it would be best if you come down, because I have a very hard time taking you seriously when you say things like “I have my opinion, you guys have yours,” when that’s obviously not the way you feel.

Listen bro, im not here thinking im better than anyone...over video games? Please, would be beyond weak.

Im just the type that holds tradition and likes to see the roots of something intact. My history of RPGs is just that ive been around with them since the start practically and the one common ground they all held onto was classes in which define the characters. How can anyone deny that? I mean look at the movies, take lord of the rings...you have your fighters, your quick ranged fighters, your mages etc...all of the stereotypes to the genre of the RPG realm are there. Its just what it was built on.

Im just saying i wish more people wouldnt look at classes as a limitation, but moreso look at it as its what RPGs stand for, thats all.

FFVII is regarded as one of the greatest RPG's every, and it doesn't have character classes.

/shrug

Some games are class heavy, and some are not. I look at is as a choice in game design, but I don't think rpg's have to have character classes, or that classes are 'the way it should be.'

:twocents:

I apologize, I shouldn't have responded in such a manner. I let my frustration get the better of me. I do understand where you're coming from, and I can agree with much of what you've said. I just think clinging to traditions is a losing battle. The world keeps changing, and it doesn't do much good to bemoan a loss that one can't do anything about. Video games are the same; the industry moves on, and anyone stuck in the past gets left in the dust.

I believe that insisting that classes are the (or at least a major) definitive part of the RPG genre isn't going to do anyone any good. Classes are definitely a major part of what makes older RPGs RPGs, but that doesn't seem to be a prerequesite these days. I wouldn't necessarily say that's a bad thing, but it does disappoint me. I missed out gaming almost entirely before about a year after the N64 came out, but when I get my hands on some of the games I've missed, I do realize that we've lost quite a bit over the years that we perhaps shouldn't have.

Exactly, and thats just all im saying...is that over time i see reasons as to why devs disclude certain aspects to the genre and its worrisome to me because, i just feel that the whole atmosphere of what RPGs stood for in all these years will eventually be dwindled down to nothing.

I just get worried that in years to come, RPGs will become a watered down action/adventure kind of genre with totally losing the RPGness that was once there.

I hope im wrong, but its just the trend i see going.