EoFF XXVII Discussion Thread - Strengthen Those Social Links

Looks like my post got deleted.

Pretty unfair, considering that on both of the previous "Day End" posts people were allowed to post and had no repercussions. Day 1 had 2 people post after the "Day End" post and did not get their post removed. Day 2 had one person post after the "Day End" post and it did not get removed. But I post after the "Day End" post and it gets removed? What's with the arbitrary decision making?

Not only do the "Day End" posts not specify that there is to be no posting after them, but there's apparently an unwritten rule that appears to be selectively enforced.

And I utterly disagree with the day ending due to a self-vote. It's not even mentioned in the rules. Not all players have had a chance to see or respond to it.

It's also not in the rules that it's not allowed. It's up to how the mods want to rule on it.

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Originally Posted by Freya

It's also not in the rules that it's not allowed. It's up to how the mods want to rule on it.

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It's also not in the rules that it is allowed. We can keep going around in circles if you'd like.

Not really since, as said, it's not strictly forbidden and final say goes to the host so your continued objections are moot.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

Not really since, as said, it's not strictly forbidden and final say goes to the host so your continued objections are moot.

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And, as I've said, it's not allowed either. Host ultimately does have the final say, but in fairness to all of the players of the game they should at the very least be able to respond to or see this decision. If a rule is being added after the game, all players should be able to at least participate or respond to it before it is implemented. This rule was not originally in the game, and it was not what the players expected when they signed up for it.

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Originally Posted by [M] Akihiko

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Originally Posted by Freya

It's also not in the rules that it's not allowed. It's up to how the mods want to rule on it.

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It's also not in the rules that it is allowed. We can keep going around in circles if you'd like.

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So your complaint is that it doesn't specifically say you can do it. I say it also doesn't say you can't do it. So if not mentioned, you're saying by default that you should be right and it shouldn't be allowed. Mod says it is going to be permissible. And so you still "utterly disagree".

Is that a good recap? Have I misunderstood your point?

There will always be scenarios that arise that the rules haven't covered as they haven't been envisaged. It's always left to the game mod's discretion then.

FWIW as a neutral observer I agree with Igor's call. Even if it wasn't specifically against the stated rules it's still against the spirit of the game.

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Originally Posted by [M] Akihiko

Looks like my post got deleted.

Pretty unfair, considering that on both of the previous "Day End" posts people were allowed to post and had no repercussions. Day 1 had 2 people post after the "Day End" post and did not get their post removed. Day 2 had one person post after the "Day End" post and it did not get removed. But I post after the "Day End" post and it gets removed? What's with the arbitrary decision making?

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And I utterly disagree with the day ending due to a self-vote. It's not even mentioned in the rules. Not all players have had a chance to see or respond to it.[/QUOTE]

I looked at the other two cases, and I believe I ruled that they did not unduly influence the game. Basically, they were inconsequential. If you look at Day One:

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Apologies for my absence. My Persona has responsibilities that require attending, thus affecting my attendance here.

I am 60/40 on Yukari being Mafia/Town. If she is Town, I would stake my reputation that Theodore is Mafia.

We shall see.

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So have I miscounted or is it not sudden death with the vote tied?

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And on Day Two, it was just Theodore ratting on Town for lynching him. Of the three 'posts post Day Closure', only Minato was really about the game, and I let that through because it was very short, and Minato barely posted, so I deemed it was okay for him to post that after the Day end, knowing he hadn't posted much of anything before.

You'll notice I let your second post through, Akihiko, because it wasn't about the game. Your other post was substantively larger and full of theory.

I concede it is superfluous though, because it occurs to me I can post after I've closed the thread. So I guess I don't even need a Day Close warning. Hmm. I keep forgetting I have mod powers. Never had them before!

As for the self-voting, as I have said: it didn't occur to me that such an action could happen, thus it wasn't on the OP rules list. When the situation happened, I looked at precedent (on Mafia Scum) and made a decision.

Akihiko, if you want to discuss all of this in greater detail, we can do so over Mognet! :)

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Originally Posted by Freya

So your complaint is that it doesn't specifically say you can do it. I say it also doesn't say you can't do it. So if not mentioned, you're saying by default that you should be right and it shouldn't be allowed. Mod says it is going to be permissible. And so you still "utterly disagree".

Is that a good recap? Have I misunderstood your point?

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My complaint is that only two players had even seen the vote or reacted to it before myself. That leaves 4 other players who had yet to even learn of the self-vote. Everyone who signed up for this game expected majority vote lockdowns and days to end at specific times, but no one expected a day to end due to a self-vote. Therefore everyone should at least be able to respond or react to the vote because this wasn't an original rule.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

FWIW as a neutral observer I agree with Igor's call. Even if it wasn't specifically against the stated rules it's still against the spirit of the game.

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How about my post getting arbitrarily removed when 3 other posts have been left up? Is that not against the spirit of the game?

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Originally Posted by Formalhaut

I looked at the other two cases, and I believe I ruled that they did not unduly influence the game. Basically, they were inconsequential. If you look at Day One:

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So you're just going to selectively enforce this unwritten rule, then?

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I concede it is superfluous though, because it occurs to me I can post after I've closed the thread. So I guess I don't even need a Day Close warning. Hmm. I keep forgetting I have mod powers. Never had them before!

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You could always just write "DO NOT POST" in the Day Close posts instead of not specifying it.

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As for the self-voting, as I have said: it didn't occur to me that such an action could happen, thus it wasn't on the OP rules list. When the situation happened, I looked at precedent (on Mafia Scum) and made a decision.

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Mafia Scum works differently. They explicitly whether mention self-voting is allowed in specific games and specific boards. This game didn't mention it at all.

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Originally Posted by [M] Akihiko

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

Not really since, as said, it's not strictly forbidden and final say goes to the host so your continued objections are moot.

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And, as I've said, it's not allowed either. Host ultimately does have the final say, but in fairness to all of the players of the game they should at the very least be able to respond to or see this decision. If a rule is being added after the game, all players should be able to at least participate or respond to it before it is implemented. This rule was not originally in the game, and it was not what the players expected when they signed up for it.

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This isn't a rule being added to the game. It's the officiant making a ruling based on existing rules in a situation the rules as written didn't originally foresee. If you want to have a debate about whether this is good or bad then by all means there can be a debate about it. But there shouldn't be any fuss over it with regard to this specific game because the ruling has been made and just complaining about it because you didn't like the ruling isn't helpful.

And for the record: no game I've ever played has had rules that covered every possible scenario. And I've played games that have 100+ pages of rules before as opposed to the fairly limited rule set stated at the beginning of this game. And I've had to read through a few dozen pages of errata in those games to see what updates have been made based on unanticipated situations. And in those games I have still come across situations where there was no clear interpretation of the situation at hand and myself and my opponent or opponents had to agree on a ruling at the time and carry on with the game. And our standard way of doing it was to just come up with a ruling we agreed on on the spot and then research in detail later to figure out if there was anything we overlooked and get opinions from others for the next game. If you would like to discuss and research and come up with a decision for future games then go ahead, though it seems Formy has looked up what the standard used in other mafia games typically is so I'm not sure there's much argument to be made there. But we shouldn't hold this game up fighting about the issue. That's ultimately not entirely useful and certainly not any fun.

Akihiko, once more: we can discuss this over Mognet. But if you insist on posting here,

Everyone has a chance to react and respond to the self-vote rule. People are doing so right now, as a matter of fact. As I'm sure people know playing Mafia: getting the consensus of 8 players is a hell of a thing. It would've taken forever to get everyone around a table and agree or disagree on something. And ultimately: it is the host's call. Self-vote allowed, effective immediately.

As for the posting issue: I fully concede that I could avoid this matter if I remember with my (new) mod powers to post after I have closed my own thread. I must state, though perhaps not overmuch: I am new to hosting. Little errors and corrections will be made. I have stated several times that I'm happy for constructive feedback about how to improve the game (and how).

Also, I stated in the Mognet to you via Igor that your theory post can be reinstated at the start of Day Four, so you haven't lost anything, in the grand scheme of things.

And lastly, we're not Mafia Scum. We are a Final Fantasy forum which happens to also enjoy Mafia. Therefore, we don't have extensive boards, sub-genres, etc. to handle these complex issues. As a first-time hoster, I use Mafia Scum as a standard-bearer for rules I may not have forseen.

What I'm trying to say I guess is this: work with me, not against me. I like that you have ideas and opinions about how the game is run, because those ideas and opinions can help inform me the next time I host a game to make it better (case in point: the posting stuff). I only ask that you give such feedback in a positive manner, for the better enjoyment of all players.

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Originally Posted by [M] Akihiko

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Originally Posted by Freya

So your complaint is that it doesn't specifically say you can do it. I say it also doesn't say you can't do it. So if not mentioned, you're saying by default that you should be right and it shouldn't be allowed. Mod says it is going to be permissible. And so you still "utterly disagree".

Is that a good recap? Have I misunderstood your point?

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My complaint is that only two players had even seen the vote or reacted to it before myself. That leaves 4 other players who had yet to even learn of the self-vote. Everyone who signed up for this game expected majority vote lockdowns and days to end at specific times, but no one expected a day to end due to a self-vote. Therefore everyone should at least be able to respond or react to the vote because this wasn't an original rule.

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There was 11 hrs between his vote and the thread being closed. I'm sure they saw it.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

This isn't a rule being added to the game. It's the officiant making a ruling based on existing rules in a situation the rules as written didn't originally foresee. If you want to have a debate about whether this is good or bad then by all means there can be a debate about it. But there shouldn't be any fuss over it with regard to this specific game because the ruling has been made and just complaining about it because you didn't like the ruling isn't helpful.

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Yes, it is a rule being added to the game. The rule being added is that self-voting is allowed. This rule was not in the game before.

I have no issue with the actual decision itself. Self-voting is perfectly acceptable. But this was not in the rules and not what every player expected when they signed up for the game. Half of the players did not have any chance to offer input and now they won't get a chance to since the day is over.

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And for the record: no game I've ever played has had rules that covered every possible scenario. And I've played games that 100+ pages of rules before as opposed to the fairly limited rule set stated at the beginning of this game. And I've had to read through a few dozen pages of errata in those games to see what updates have been made based on unanticipated situations. And in those games I have still come across situations where there was no clear interpretation of the situation at hand and myself and my opponent or opponents had to agree on a ruling at the time and carry on with the game. And our standard way of doing it was to just come up with a ruling we agreed on on the spot and then research in detail later to figure out if there was anything we overlooked and get opinions from others for the next game. If you would like to discuss and research and come up with a decision for future games then go ahead, though it seems Formy has looked up what the standard used in other mafia games typically is so I'm not sure there's much argument to be made there.

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I agree that you ultimately can't prepare for every single instance, because there can always be something new that pops up and isn't covered. However, I think it is incredibly unfair to add a rule that was not originally in the game, and not give every player a chance to respond to it. I also think it's incredibly fair to selectively enforce an unwritten rule (my post being removed).

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That's ultimately not entirely useful and certainly not any fun.

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You know what's not any fun? Being screwed over in some way by a host for the third consecutive game. Everyone makes mistakes, and accidents do happen. I understand that. I also think the hosts have ultimately done a great job here and I've enjoyed playing. Formalhaut has been a good host too. But this is the third game in a row where I have had rules either arbitrarily enforced upon me or been screwed by a lack of clarification. It's very frustrating and almost tiring at this point.

If I'm honest I think you're making a big deal over something relatively trivial, [M] Akihiko. Your post being deleted isn't a disproportionate response and not a harsh sanction. If you had been modkilled for it I'd understand your displeasure. The host knows you're unhappy, everyone else does too but I'd advise just dropping it, it's not worth this much hassle over something as minor as this.

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Originally Posted by Formalhaut

Everyone has a chance to react and respond to the self-vote rule. People are doing so right now, as a matter of fact. As I'm sure people know playing Mafia: getting the consensus of 8 players is a hell of a thing. It would've taken forever to get everyone around a table and agree or disagree on something. And ultimately: it is the host's call. Self-vote allowed, effective immediately.

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The problem with you allowing the self-vote immediately is that it effectively screws over the player's decision making. Had I known there was a self-voting rule, I would have definitely not voted for Koromaru and withheld my vote so town could deliberate further.

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As for the posting issue: I fully concede that I could avoid this matter if I remember with my (new) mod powers to post after I have closed my own thread. I must state, though perhaps not overmuch: I am new to hosting. Little errors and corrections will be made. I have stated several times that I'm happy for constructive feedback about how to improve the game (and how).

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I stated above, but I understand that errors will be made. That's perfectly okay. However I feel somewhat slighted by the fact that I had a post removed where others did not.

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Also, I stated in the Mognet to you via Igor that your theory post can be reinstated at the start of Day Four, so you haven't lost anything, in the grand scheme of things.

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Except that post was made under the belief that the Day would not end. It also might not even mean anything if it's posted on Day 4 because either myself or the intended recipient might be dead.

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Originally Posted by Freya

There was 11 hrs between his vote and the thread being closed. I'm sure they saw it.

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There's no way you could possibly know that.

Had I known this rule was going to be enforced, I would have withheld my vote and not allowed the Day Phase to end due to a self-vote.

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Originally Posted by [M] Akihiko

You know what's not any fun? Being screwed over in some way by a host for the third consecutive game. Everyone makes mistakes, and accidents do happen. I understand that. I also think the hosts have ultimately done a great job here and I've enjoyed playing. Formalhaut has been a good host too. But this is the third game in a row where I have had rules either arbitrarily enforced upon me or been screwed by a lack of clarification. It's very frustrating and almost tiring at this point.

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Dude, this ruling wasn't aimed at you and I fail to see how you've been screwed since literally nothing has happened to you. You had two posts deleted. One was about the ruling and is far more appropriate here in this thread than the game thread and you're being heard on that one and by all means, we can all decide on a way to move forward with self voting in the future from here, even if it's just stating explicitly if it's allowed from now on. But nothing said in your other post is anything you can't just say again when the new day opens up. You have not suffered here in any way I can see. You aren't a victim of anything here. So how about we just move on from that notion and you can just say whatever you wanted to say in Day 4?

No point in voting because if you do there might be a majority lynch which ends the day prematurely.

That's a silly complaint.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

If I'm honest I think you're making a big deal over something relatively trivial, [M] Akihiko. Your post being deleted isn't a disproportionate response and not a harsh sanction. If you had been modkilled for it I'd understand your displeasure. The host knows you're unhappy, everyone else does too but I'd advise just dropping it, it's not worth this much hassle over something as minor as this.

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Except I really care about this game. I have a ton of fun playing it. And to have this sort of thing happen to me for three consecutive games is beyond frustrating. I'm honestly tempted to just quit and not bother with it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Shauna

No point in voting because if you do there might be a majority lynch which ends the day prematurely.

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And if you don't vote then you can't lynch mafia. I don't understand this comment.

Kinda how you sucked all the fun out for me the first game because you decided to out me to everyone as the doctor becuase you thought the game was "broken" based on karifean's way of hosting.

You have ruined the fun too :monster:

Oh my God the troutstorm


Going full-on troll was so worth it :D

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Originally Posted by Freya

Kinda how you sucked all the fun out for me the first game because you decided to out me to everyone as the doctor becuase you thought the game was "broken" based on karifean's way of hosting.

You have ruined the fun too :monster:

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Don't really have any idea what you're talking about. I never broke any rules, nor did I do anything that was wrong in the game.

You're complaining that you would have withheld your vote had you known about self voting. All I'm saying is that someone else could have thrown down that killing vote and saying you would have withheld your vote is silly. If it were Junpei, would you be complaining so much right now? Majority lynches can happen, I don't see why it's any different if it's a self vote or not that causes it.

Wow, short memory.

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Originally Posted by Shauna

You're complaining that you would have withheld your vote had you known about self voting. All I'm saying is that someone else could have thrown down that killing vote. If it were Junpei, would you be complaining so much right now?

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Except it wouldn't have been Junpei because he explicitly stated he was not going to do so to avoid a potential lockdown. His vote being the "killing vote" could only be possible with Koromaru's vote being counted which, again, was not known to be a valid vote as part of the rules.

Well, right now I just want to say this to everyone (sans Akihiko): My condolences. Been there. It's been hell :p

People can do whatever they want, despite what they say they'll do. Mitsuru might have done the deed too. She was considering it, as I've heard through the grapevine.

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Originally Posted by Freya

Wow, short memory.

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No, I just genuinely don't know what you're going on about. I was playing the mafia in that game. I used Karifean's character descriptions to deduce everyone's identities which happened to include yours. Everyone could have arrived at that conclusion.

You could have thought that was scummy of me and lynched me for it.

You and I argued and argued and argued and argued in the discussion thread. You ruined the game for me with your complaints and posts about how karifean was hosting.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Well, right now I just want to say this to everyone (sans Akihiko): My condolences. Been there. It's been hell :p

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Seriously dude?

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Originally Posted by Shauna

People can do whatever they want, despite what they say they'll do. Mitsuru might have done the deed too. She was considering it, as I've heard through the grapevine.

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Again, this hinges on Koromaru's vote being valid which was not clarified in the original rules.

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Originally Posted by Freya

You and I argued and argued and argued and argued in the discussion thread. You ruined the game for me with your complaints and posts about how karifean was hosting.

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He effectively exposed my identity in the first night kill post. There were only two female characters in the entire game, and I was unaware that he would be referring to the specific genders of the characters who performed the killing.

You also misunderstood almost all of my posts when I was talking about the rules in the discussion thread. I attempted to clarify them to you multiple times, and I even reached out to you via VM to apologize for any misunderstanding and attempted to communicate to you even further. Instead, you ignored my message and continued to misunderstand what I was talking about. That's on you, not me.

And I did understand it. I even quoted you and you said I misunderstood it. Not sure how I messed up a direct quote.. or the several I shared where you said one thing in them and claimed another after I shared them.

Look 3 times now in 3 different games you have complained about the moderators. At this point, is it really all these moderators who are out to take your fun away or.....

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

Excellent job on the comedy upon being discovered Fynn. One of the highlights of this glorious game.

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You're too kind!

I'll be waiting for my Funniest Member Ciddie now :bigsmile:


Seriously though, I know this is kind of off-topic atm, but I made a huge blunder. At first I was really beating myself up over it since I felt really dumb by falling for such a trap, but I have to admit, it was a really clever trap, and the fact that I did fall for it really transformed the whole game for the better! Things got so exciting that I really stopped caring that I'm doomed - so I just did what felt fun! And I'm so glad I did because, judging by your reactions, you guys were having just as much fun as I was :D

So thank you, all. This was the most fun mafia I've ever taken part in, even if I did lose ;)

It was great to have you Fynn! Thanks for stepping in on Day One! Genuinely I thought I was imposing on you, but I'm glad you had fun.

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Originally Posted by [M] Akihiko

Except I really care about this game. I have a ton of fun playing it. And to have this sort of thing happen to me for three consecutive games is beyond frustrating. I'm honestly tempted to just quit and not bother with it anymore.

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For whatever it's worth to you, I just want to say on a personal level I'm sorry this has hit you hard. I appreciate it's difficult and it also probably sucks having so many people disagree with you. I'll give you further advice and feel free to disregard it but take a step away from this thread, from EoFF for an hour and do something you enjoy to wind down and relax. We all care about mafia but take it from me it's not worth getting stressed or feeling like trout over either.

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Originally Posted by [M] Akihiko

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Originally Posted by Shauna

People can do whatever they want, despite what they say they'll do. Mitsuru might have done the deed too. She was considering it, as I've heard through the grapevine.

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Again, this hinges on Koromaru's vote being valid which was not clarified in the original rules.

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Not really? Before Koromaru's vote, Mitsuru or Junpei could have ended the day then and there themselves. Regardless of how the game actually went down, or what the individuals in question said they'd do. There was enough for a majority lynch without Koromaru's vote. Before Koromaru voted himself Ken could have changed his mind and switched vote. Junpei could have lied and voted. Mitsuru could have got off her lazy butt and voted.

Would you be complaining if any of these things happened? Because if not... self-voting isn't any different in the grand scheme of things. You say you would have held off on your vote - well your vote wasn't exactly required for a majority lynch either. The day still could have ended without your vote being included.

Yes, it was not an established rule, but the host made a decision and that's that.

If the host fails to mention, consider it allowed. That's how game and competive reality shows define their rules in contract unless the host intervenes. Self-voting has been allowed in previous games as long as the host has neglected to mention as such.

IN OTHER NEWS. I had a theme idea the other night

So Bachelorette

But the bachelors are like Fabio, Derek Zoolander etc

I think the role playing would be hilarious and I want to watch it

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Originally Posted by Freya

And I did understand it. I even quoted you and you said I misunderstood it. Not sure how I messed up a direct quote.. or the several I shared where you said one thing in them and claimed another after I shared them.

Look 3 times now in 3 different games you have complained about the moderators. At this point, is it really all these moderators who are out to take your fun away or.....

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I'm not sure what specific posts or quotes you're referencing here. Could you clarify?

Not once have I ever intended to suggest that the moderators were "out to take my fun away." This isn't what I think has happened whatsoever.

In the first game, I was upset because I had absolutely no idea that Karifean would reveal the specific gender of the killer. Was I upset? Yeah. Probably too upset. It's not like he intended to ruin my game or expose me. He just had a huge oversight in how the reveal posts should go. He made a mistake, and I made a mistake in getting too emotional as a response. I apologized and thanked him for his hosting efforts after the game. I still think he did a good job.

Psychotic's game was a little different. As far as I remember, there was no clarification on how long the Night/Day phases would last. I was playing as the Doctor, but the Night Phase had ended before I had a chance to submit an action. I was also replaced for another member despite the fact that several other members were also inactive, and for multiple periods of time during the game. I felt that the lack of clarity was very frustrating and that me being replaced was a little unfair. Again, Psychotic wasn't out to get me or anything. He just didn't clarify things and had a different idea in mind for the game than what I thought it was going to be when I signed up for it.

This game, my primary argument isn't even about myself. I'm upset that my post was removed in comparison to other's, sure. But I'm honestly just looking out for the other four players in the game who may not have had a chance to respond to the self-vote. That's what's most important to me. I want everyone to have a fair chance to respond and participate.

And instead look at what's happened. Fynn is taking personal shots at me and referring to my honest criticism as a "bitchfest." You, Freya, have taken this as an opportunity to expose my identity outside of the game (which is against the game's rules).

I had absolutely no intention of hurting anyone or upsetting anyone at all. All I wanted was to help make the game better and fair for everyone. Instead, I've essentially been ganged up on for speaking out about a game decision I didn't agree with. I'm beyond sad right now.

I remember watching a Psych episode that revolved around Shawn and Gus pretending to be contestants on one of those shows. That was a funny episode.

Yeah just wanna say from a forums staff perspective, let's be kinder to each other, yeah? We don't have to make it personal. Let's chill.

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Originally Posted by [M] Akihiko

I had absolutely no intention of hurting anyone or upsetting anyone at all. All I wanted was to help make the game better and fair for everyone. Instead, I've essentially been ganged up on for speaking out about a game decision I didn't agree with. I'm beyond sad right now.

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Like I said man, by all means we can have a discussion about self voting if you want to come up with a definite stance to take in future games. I agree with you that it might be better to state it outright in the future just since it is such a strange situation to come up, even if it's almost certainly extremely unlikely to happen often. But for this game it really is just best to accept it and move on for the sake of having fun with the rest of this game.

Trust me, as someone who has had many a discussion on the rules in all sorts of table top games over the years, it's always better to just accept the final ruling, move on, and address it later than to get bent out of shape about it in the moment and let it spoil the game for you. And that includes situations where you feel like you're being screwed by the ruling. I've literally lost games due to rulings that I didn't necessarily completely agree with but agreed to because the specific rule supporting my argument was eluding me or because I got outvoted. But I still had fun with those games because I just accepted it and didn't let it spoil the rest of it for me, and after the game I went and looked up the rules or asked some other folks if they've ever run into the scenario so we can get it right next time.

I'm sorry you're sad about all this but I promise you if you can do like Psy says and step away to let yourself calm down a bit, maybe do something relaxing, and come back ready to jump back into the game as is now and only worry about discussing how we handle things in future games you'll have a much better time. I learned a long time ago that it's just a game in the end and no matter how badly you want the win it's not worth sacrificing your own fun when things don't go the way you think they should in situations like this where there is no clear right or wrong call based on the rules as written.

So take a break and come back refreshed man. Let's keep the fun going right until the end. I want you to have as much fun as everyone has been having up until now.

And I am sorry for being an ass. What I said was low. Really frickin' low.

I like what Vivi said.

I just want to take a moment out to say that, as host, but also as a regular member on this forum, that I am sincerely sorry that you are upset. As host, it is my duty to ensure that everyone is happy and enjoying the game. If even one player is not, then I have failed in the most basic part of my role. I will try to work towards correcting this.

Like Psy said, just take yourself out of the game for an hour or two. The Night phase isn't going anywhere fast.

I will say: I do appreciate what you're saying, and I'm taking everything on board, and changes will be made in whatever Mafia game I'm hosting next (being more clear on rules is start). No matter whether or not we agree on a decision I've made, I do appreciate that you're honest enough to tell me. I'd rather someone tell me than keep quiet and silently fume inside. I would only say to make feedback constructive, collaborative and supportive. That goes for everyone.

Moving forward, like Psy said, I hope everyone can move forward, and let calmer heads prevail. As host, I urge everyone to get along, have fun, and see where the Day takes us! :jess:

Yrah, moving forward. Town, again:

https://68.media.tumblr.com/189b6dda...wxguo1_500.gif


Good job on getting your first member of Strega! Think you can handle the rest? ;)

In light of all this positive feeling, I would appreciate it if all the remaining mafia members would make themselves known.

Thanks.

Sorry driving so I can't change accounts easy. When I saw the self vote I counted it and thought night time. I thought it counted and Form... Igor was just offline.

Naturally the one time I'm away from my computer an incredibly rare occurance happens in-game. :roll2

Jesus Jnpy!


You almost spoiled the whole game wow wtf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [M] Junpei

Sorry driving so I can't change accounts easy

---

Also, I'd like to say on behalf of Igor that Igor doesn't advocate playing Mafia while driving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Formalhaut

Naturally the one time I'm away from my computer an incredibly rare occurance happens in-game. :roll2

---

Regardless of how much I enjoy ribbing you, it's all good man. This will be (hopefully) the last post I make about you that isn't me ribbing you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

In light of all this positive feeling, I would appreciate it if all the remaining mafia members would make themselves known.

Thanks.

---

*taps watch*

It's been 6 minutes guys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivi22

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Formalhaut

Naturally the one time I'm away from my computer an incredibly rare occurance happens in-game. :roll2

---

Regardless of how much I enjoy ribbing you, it's all good man. This will be (hopefully) the last post I make about you that isn't me ribbing you.

---

Ha

Oh, don't worry that's just me ribbing myself. I mean, if you can't laugh at yourself, what can you do? :p

Then again, when Igor's absent in the games that tends to imply something serious is about to go down, so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

In light of all this positive feeling, I would appreciate it if all the remaining mafia members would make themselves known.

Thanks.

---

*taps watch*

It's been 6 minutes guys.

---

This is just a mafia tactic guys. She's letting you think she's asking people to reveal themselves as if she's not mafia herself! Don't trust her!

##vote: Shunna

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

In light of all this positive feeling, I would appreciate it if all the remaining mafia members would make themselves known.

Thanks.

---

*taps watch*

It's been 6 minutes guys.

---

shona pls

You make it sound like I'm on a freeway or something.
[IMG]http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...psflg0imop.jpg[/IMG]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

In light of all this positive feeling, I would appreciate it if all the remaining mafia members would make themselves known.

Thanks.

---

*taps watch*

It's been 6 minutes guys.

---

This is just a mafia tactic guys. SHe's letting you think she's asking peopel to reveal themselevs as if she's not mafia herself! Don't trust her!

##vote: Shunna

---

Nuuuu frey-frey, pls.

EDIT: Also, wow, that's a fairly... open field.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [M] Junpei

You make it sound like I'm on a freeway or something.
[IMG]http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...psflg0imop.jpg[/IMG]

---

OH MY GOD HE'S TIPPED OVER!!!

If anyone had any doubts who Junpei was xD Think they just confirmed it with that snow!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shauna

In light of all this positive feeling, I would appreciate it if all the remaining mafia members would make themselves known.

Thanks.

---

*taps watch*

It's been 6 minutes guys.

---

This is just a mafia tactic guys. She's letting you think she's asking people to reveal themselves as if she's not mafia herself! Don't trust her!

##vote: Shunna

---

Typical mafia diversion.

##vote: Fryea

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

If anyone had any doubts who Junpei was xD Think they just confirmed it with that snow!

---

What? Snow and some seemingly oil rig related equipment?

Could be anywhere.

PS: that piddly amount of snow is laughable.

veebl pls

wow u guys are ruining your game

and u killed ur doctor wow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynn

wow u guys are ruining your game

and u killed ur doctor wow

---

I always knew that suicide by mafia was how I'd die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivi22

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

If anyone had any doubts who Junpei was xD Think they just confirmed it with that snow!

---

What? Snow and some seemingly oil rig related equipment?

Could be anywhere.

PS: that piddly amount of snow is laughable.

---

It's the Mafia's secret hideout. Junpei = Mafia confirmed.

In all fairness it was 15c here last week now it's -5c and snowing today.

Okay, that's a lie and you know it

When temperature falls snow fast, it never snows, since that usually indicates a pressure high which means clouds disperse

##vote: jnpy

Busted

I'll admit I'm no doplor radar. It is hot one day, cold. ##Vote: weather

I've got all night actions in now guys, so I'll just start resolving them and then we can get Day Four underway!

Ooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynn

Okay, that's a lie and you know it

When temperature falls snow fast, it never snows, since that usually indicates a pressure high which means clouds disperse

##vote: jnpy

Busted

---

Never is a strong word

source: Former meteorologist bf

#vote: Koromoro again

pimpken why


no pls no

Hey Vivi

Welcome to the dead side

Does that mean we get to hang out with thanatos?

I mean, not like literally, but we have like Laddy, so it evens out

Well now for sure we're out both "doctors"

So yeah, thanks for playing Vivi!

There's just six players left. This means if Town do well and lynch a Mafia, we're going to at least Day Five. If a Town is lynched, things get dicey. With no Doctor, there's no way to stop a kill going through. So yeah, Day Four is going to be huge.

'Yuge

Tremendous

I kinda hope Mafia wins. Sorry, I'm pretty like that. Can I change sides, even after I'm dead?

I meant to say petty but autocorrect and when I go to edit it keeps asking if I want to delete. Damn mobile.

Hey, I'm a huge fan of a massive body count too. Doesn't matter to me who wins now as long as people die.

I mean, you are pretty but ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivi22

Hey, I'm a huge fan of a massive body count too. Doesn't matter to me who wins now as long as people die.

---

*sits by Vivi and watch the world burn*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Formalhaut

I mean, you are pretty but ;)

---

Awww, :blush:

Ok I am back from work. Able to talk a bit more on things.

Yeah, sure come on! There's still plenty of room on the mafia bench! :bigsmile:

Cmon Vivi, you too! I made some pizza!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynn

Yeah, sure come on! There's still plenty of room on the mafia bench! :bigsmile:

Cmon Vivi, you too! I made some pizza!

---

Does it have pineapple?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivi22

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynn

Yeah, sure come on! There's still plenty of room on the mafia bench! :bigsmile:

Cmon Vivi, you too! I made some pizza!

---

Does it have pineapple?

---

:bigsmile:

I think this game is making me want to play Persona 3. I never had any interest in it before, but now it's definitely on my radar. I don't know if it could top Persona 4 for me but I still think I should give it a shot.

I personally prefer it to 4 because of its themes and characters (though I am in the minority, since people usually prefer the more heavily anime-inspired and immediately likeable cast of 4), but it might be a bit harder to get into after 4 since 4 really makes many aspects of gameplay smoother. Your best bet would be to get the portable version if you have a PSP or Vita - what that version sacrifices in anime cut-scenes it really makes up for with huge gameplay improvements, like a smoother equipment interface and controllable party members (not to mention there's a female path which is awesome). If you can't get that, get FES. There is literally no reason to play the basic version of the game at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynn

I personally prefer it to 4 because of its themes and characters (though I am in the minority, since people usually prefer the more heavily anime-inspired and immediately likeable cast of 4), but it might be a bit harder to get into after 4 since 4 really makes many aspects of gameplay smoother. Your best bet would be to get the portable version if you have a PSP or Vita - what that version sacrifices in anime cut-scenes it really makes up for with huge gameplay improvements, like a smoother equipment interface and controllable party members (not to mention there's a female path which is awesome). If you can't get that, get FES. There is literally no reason to play the basic version of the game at this point.

---

I actually do have a Vita...which has unfortunately been collecting dust since I finished the two Danganronpa games months ago. Sounds like P3 Portable is the better version so I'll pick that one up.

This seems like a good time to play through it with Persona 5 just around the corner. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynn

I personally prefer it to 4 because of its themes and characters (though I am in the minority, since people usually prefer the more heavily anime-inspired and immediately likeable cast of 4), but it might be a bit harder to get into after 4 since 4 really makes many aspects of gameplay smoother. Your best bet would be to get the portable version if you have a PSP or Vita - what that version sacrifices in anime cut-scenes it really makes up for with huge gameplay improvements, like a smoother equipment interface and controllable party members (not to mention there's a female path which is awesome). If you can't get that, get FES. There is literally no reason to play the basic version of the game at this point.

---

While I do number myself in with the majority who prefer Persona 4 (I can't help it, I just like happiness), I do really enjoy Persona 3. It was the game that introduced me to the entire series, after all, I'm pretty indebted.

As for the version, I played P3P's female path, and the story was fantastic. The lack of anime cutscenes means it is more heavily visual-novelish, which is a shame, but the gameplay improvements are pretty important, so I think it is a decent trade-off.

FES retains the anime cutscenes and has mild additions to the game. I've not played it myself. FES also only has the original male path, which I feel isn't as well-written than the female path which was written after FES was released and allows you to develop social links with every member of S.E.E.S, as opposed to just the women. Also, you can choose not to romance everyone, unlike in the male path.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ld884DKjVy...endapipoca.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [M] Ken

Oh my god. I'm an idiot. Igor PM'd me days ago, but I didn't notice it and didn't read it. I'm NOT just a regular cop. I'm a "Corrupt Cop": when mafia roleblock me, rather than me getting no investigation results, my investigation results get switched. A mafia result becomes a town result and vice versa.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [M] Ken

This changes everything. I'm almost certain that Shinjiro ISN'T mafia now. After I revealed myself as cop, I must have been roleblocked by mafia the next night, making Shinjiro appear as mafia rather than town.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinjiro (paraphrased)

Yeah no.

---

Oh, the end of the day is always so full of humour.

oh dear

Oh dear indeed

pshaw


amateur


using a 2011 meme as your send-off? classy

You guys are ridiculous. Was that a Suicide pack :lol:

https://media0.giphy.com/media/QgixZj4y3TwnS/giphy.gif
https://media4.giphy.com/media/cDJq5MNA7GE6c/giphy.gif
https://media2.giphy.com/media/aLdiZJmmx4OVW/giphy.gif

I'm almost surprised it took this long for Ken to vote for himself.

We're the Suicide Squad


I'm Harley Quinn! Dibs!

Alright now that i've wasted most my work day posting here, I'm gonna have to actually work on this T & M :lol:

Driving ATM, well... that escalated quickly.

Man, Mafia team, get a new gimmick.

You get a new gimmick.

You just can't take how cool we are :smug:

Self hammering is actually a pretty smart tactic tbh.

That's why I did it


Ken is just copying me

But I'm the one who did "Yes we Ken." No-one can take that away from me. No-one.

you ruined it

YOU ruined it.

no, I made art


you just... made a cheap knock-off!

You invented it, but I perfected it.

pffff


whatever you say, little dude

:smug:

If you're wondering why the write-up for Ken's death suddenly channels Scarface, Mr. Carny insisted I give Ken a glorious death, so I had to re-write the ending. :p

Guys. GUYS.

I think I figured out who the mafia is.

It's Ken.

I don't know why you two are bragging when you absolutely trouted the bed and made ridiculous and unnecessary claims :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psychotic

I don't know why you two are bragging when you absolutely trouted the bed and made ridiculous and unnecessary claims :p

---

Shush, you. This was literally my first mafia (in which I didn't die within like an hour of joining). Not sure what Fynn's excuse is... :erm:

In Mr. Carny's defence, I think Ken had no choice but to claim cop. Because he couldn't really claim Vanilla, and claiming nothing would've been suspicious as all hell.

I super underestimated Junpei's cunning. That was my bad and I seriously didn't see it coming.

Still, it was my action that made the game actually fun rather than just tense. So I think you're just jealous, Psy

Junpei made a huge mistake lying like that assuming he is indeed town. He got lucky from you panicking. No townie should ever lie! Assuming Mitsuru is being truthful too, his lie could've cost town the cop and if you'd kept your mouth shut and let the town destroy itself it just might've!

Ya I can bees smarts.

We may not have made all the right moves, but we had a LOT of fun.

Except it was legitimately a smart choice on his part. Yes, it involved risk, but he lured me out in a way that would pretty much make me suspicious if I didn't say anything


Could I have tried and argue that? Of course. But you can't deny that his move was well-planned and worked well to the point of being a total game-changer, not only incriminating me completely and indisputably, but also presenting him to the rest of town as undeniably saying the truth - to this point he is the only living townie who cannot possibly be mafia

Really well done, Junpei

A townie will lie for strategic reasons though? Like when you don't want to be revealed as a role. What kind of logic is that? A townie should never lie? What?

##vote: Psychotic

Sorry dude, I don't think it was smart to lie and say a random person did something when they didn't. You incriminated yourself under zero pressure. It worked because of you, but it would've failed disastrously if you had ignored the bait - ending with, at best, the cop exposed and at worst, lynched.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynn

A townie will lie for strategic reasons though? Like when you don't want to be revealed as a role. What kind of logic is that? A townie should never lie? What?

##vote: Psychotic

---

Yes, a townie should never lie. Lynch all liars is a basic town rule. Don't claim at all if you don't want your role to be revealed, don't just pull something out of your ass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

IN OTHER NEWS. I had a theme idea the other night

So Bachelorette

But the bachelors are like Fabio, Derek Zoolander etc

I think the role playing would be hilarious and I want to watch it

---

SO​GUYS. MY IDEA. WHAT THINK

##Vote: Psychotic

Mafia solidarity, yo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

IN OTHER NEWS. I had a theme idea the other night

So Bachelorette

But the bachelors are like Fabio, Derek Zoolander etc

I think the role playing would be hilarious and I want to watch it

---

SO​GUYS. MY IDEA. WHAT THINK

---

Yaaas! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psychotic

Sorry dude, I don't think it was smart to lie and say a random person did something when they didn't. You incriminated yourself under zero pressure. It worked because of you, but it would've failed disastrously if you had ignored the bait - ending with, at best, the cop exposed and at worst, lynched.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynn

A townie will lie for strategic reasons though? Like when you don't want to be revealed as a role. What kind of logic is that? A townie should never lie? What?

##vote: Psychotic

---

Yes, a townie should never lie. Lynch all liars is a basic town rule. Don't claim at all if you don't want your role to be revealed, don't just pull something out of your ass.

---

Except his risk payed out hugely, so how can you still criticize it? He managed to say something to make everyone believe him and revealed himself just at the right time to gain back everyone's trust. There's no lynch all liars rule here - and frankly, it's a very stupid one because in this instance, it would have given mafia a huge edge because I was completely pinned down.

The pressure was there because everything he said was aligned with what we knew. Then Mitsuru came in, and everything came crumbling down. Claim whatever you want, but I can assure you, his guess was accurate enough to give us definitely more than zero pressure.

Of course, it's easy to judge when you're on the other side.

How would you have been under any pressure? Everyone would've been up in arms about the Tracker and Cop claims and you could've sat quiet and let them bicker about the mechanics of Mitsuru's role. If Junpei had then said "Lol I lied I investigated the dog he did nothing" and you hadn't said anything everyone would've assumed you were vanilla and he'd have looked suspect as all hell for lying.

Not trying to be an ass here, just offering feedback and analysis. I get you'd like to have been caught out by a masterplan but I gotta be totally honest and say it wasn't through his genius you were caught out, it was through your own mistake. And yeah you're right it's easy for me to sit on the sidelines and say that. Fully accept that. If I'd been in your position maybe I'd have done the same! Just calling them like I see 'em.

I mean, Psychotic is right: Lynch All Liars is an established policy. I personally don't like policy lynches, because by their very definition they are inflexible, and I like to consider everything to their proper context.

I agree with Psychotic: it was damn risky, and Mitsuru came under some heat which could've crippled the Town. Despite that, it did work out, it forced Koromaru to claim (making him the number one target), which resulted in Ken having to claim a significantly weaker position (making him face off against Mitsuru, and we know how that ended up)

I'll also go into slightly more detail about why I'm more sympathetic to the risky gambit, but I'll wait until after the game's finished. I will say though Junpei: risky as smurf, but good job.

EDIT: It's easy to be objective. I mean, objectively, yeah, I totally agree with Psy. But subjectively, I can't help but say Junpei's risky gambit was the turning point of the game.

A game which isn't over just yet, though. Day Five could go one of two ways, still.

And I'm not saying I didn't make a mistake! I acknowledged that as far back as yesterday. Still, Junpei made a decision that hinged on me making that mistake. He saw an opportunity and he took it - it was rolling the dice, but in the end, he won and I lost. I didn't think he had it in him to lie, so I did my best to adjust to the facts he presented. I made the mistake, but he planted the lie. Which I think was very smart, even if a lot of it relied on luck.

Honestly, I think Junpei played us like a fiddle. He's put himself in a position above all reproach, whilst leading us into incriminating ourselves. Formy and Psychotic are looking at it all wrong: it was a brilliant gamble, not a mistake.

##Vote: Formy AND Psychotic

'cause I'm a mafia and I live to break rules.

Hey, don't lump me in with Psy, I'm ultimately with you guys! I just think Psy has a point and under normal circumstances, it is way too risky to consider.

But it worked, and he ended up directly bagging Koromaru, and forcing Ken to claim a weakened position. Besides, it was Day Three, and Town were in a shambles before, so someone had to do something.

You're all missing one key thing. Junpei was motivated by his obsession with the idea that Mitsuru was scum. Mitsuru as in not scum Mitsuru. As in Cop Mitsuru. He was trying to get Mitsu's scum buddies to come to her aid. He wasn't onto any actual scum! He even straight up said "Koromaru: don't think you are playing as mafia" right before you claimed. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psychotic

You're all missing one key thing. Junpei was motivated by his obsession with the idea that Mitsuru was scum. Mitsuru as in not scum Mitsuru. As in Cop Mitsuru. He was trying to get Mitsu's scum buddies to come to her aid. He wasn't onto any actual scum! He even straight up said "Koromaru: don't think you are playing as mafia" right before you claimed. :p

---

Pretty much this. In fact, I would even argue that Junpei's move somewhat backfired because he actually ended up exposing the real Cop.

Maybe that was a false sense of security. It's easier to roleclaim to someone who trusts you than someone who's finger pointing you and shouting that you claim something.

But yeah, Junpei was awry with the Mitsuru finger-point. :p

Yep, which is why I said nothing until Mitsuru revealed stuff. She said some stuff that I knew I couldn't refute once Aigis came in, so I decided to claim Doctor first since I'd actually been less suspected than her, so I could have the upper hand and frame Aigis.

But then Junpei revealed he was lying which I was NOT expecting, which is why I thought it was smart. I already thought of three steps that I'd be performing and was getting ready to fight Aigis, but I failed to consider Junpei might be playing me.

I will go into after the game why and how I set it up.

I did it PRECISELY because I thought he was going to push Mitsuru and didn't suspect me.

Yeah but once he'd pushed Mitsuru and she'd been lynched and flipped Cop, you'd have been exposed anyway. No need to try to set up the Doc - because there's no way you could've taken them both out - just take the Cop lynch you've already got and laugh all the way to the bank, kill the Doc at night (if he claims to substantiate Mitsuru) and then do your jnpy pls routine the next day.

Sigh


You know what, guys? Dealing with the fact that I'm not as smart as I thought and then trying to make a joke out of it was hard enough. You really don't need to spend energy rubbing that fact in my face :(

Hey we all smurf up and make mistakes, that's part of the game. I've made some shockers in my time! Phoenix Wright mafia for example was a troutshow of bad on my part.

Anyway, there's a wider strategic discussion as to whether it's right for town to lie or not and that was more intended to be the point of my posts, we kind of drifted off that.

I still think it's a valid strategy because that means you can also trick mafia. If a game Master doesn't specify that it's against the rules, I really don't think there's anything wrong with that

I lost the last two Mafia games pretty handily, with several mistakes in the last one, so yeah. Don't beat yourself up about it Fynn. You're a really good player! :D

Exactly, Dissidia proved that! That was really well played.

Also Junpei if your explanation is anything more than "Actually yeah I got really bloody lucky but hey it worked :D" I will call you a liar. ;)

I won't talk about anything game-specific since I'm still playing, but I think you did a fine job Fynn. And you definitely made the game more entertaining. :)

I think regardless of the outcome the real winners were Mafia this game. I love how they went out with a bang.

Well look at all y'all dinguses, making me blush

Ok, home from work. What a day today was. Great job Mr. Carny!

We're at the final day now guys! What a rollercoaster! (well, assuming everyone decides to not vote 'No Lynch', I guess).

Not going to happen.

I just have an image now of Elizabeth rage playing Portal 2 now. No idea why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Formalhaut

I just have an image now of Elizabeth rage playing Portal 2 now. No idea why.

---

You know, I've got this funny feeling she is as well. I don't have the slightest idea why.

What is edgy cop?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

What is edgy cop?

---

Mitsuru explained it in thread. Normally getting the right results, but getting flipped/wrong results if she happens to be protected by the doctor on that night.

Oh okay, sorry

Nothing to be sorry about. There's an awful lot of stuff to keep track of in that thread.

Yeah, it is a unique game mechanic from the game setup I used, so I don't expect people to know it.

Basically, the cop's investigations are sane (i.e, accurate) unless the cop is being protected. When the cop is being protected, all results show up as paranoid (all guilty), regardless of accuracy.

Funnily enough the setup I used doesn't give it a flavour. I was going to go for 'obsessive' but felt that sounded too similar to 'compulsive' which was already being used by the doctor, so I went with edgy, because I didn't have a theasaurus to hand.

Welp, I guess this ends the game then.

Oh God. I am at the edge of my seat. Was my investigation legit?!

Hey guys, sorry I'm late. What did I miss?

...oh.

WHAT THE FUUUUUU

Aw snap. Town got its hustle on the last couple of days, well-played!

Now that it is over, I can freely admit that before Day Three, Town was - respectfully - getting smushed. From the middle of Day Three onwards, Town got their act together and were in the ascendancy. It was so interesting seeing the reversal happen.

They were not getting smushed. We failed to hit a single role before the end of night 2, and we didn't manage to kill anyone on day 1. Town really had a good start.

We couldn't get a single role before they all got revealed. That was the opposite of a good start for us.

The inability to hit a power role did hurt, to be sure, but in the first two days, you guys didn't really need to do much. It's telling that not a single one of you jumped on the bandwagon for Yukari, for example. You simply didn't need to. None of you were on the Theodore bandwagon either.

Whether or not the lack of killing a power role would've hindered your lategame chances (I would say it did), I do think it is fair to say that Town were under some pressure in the first third of the game. And besides, power roles are no guarantee. Mitsuru's cop investigations only really became useful in Day Three because of the unique mechanic. You guys basically made Junpei a Vanilla Townie.

I mean yeah, it wasn't the best start not killing someone Night One, but that's just the luck of the draw. Vivi can confirm his protection was very arbitrary. Going into Day Three, no-one from Town seemed suspicious of you guys, at least, not above the usual level of suspicion, though I might have to re-read the latter part of Day Two to see where things were at.

Ken was actually playing a great game until he needed to claim, because most were happy enough to leave him be.

Honestly, I think Mafia had a good enough start. Not hitting a power role probably hurt your long term chances, as power roles tend to get more powerful over time, but in the short term, I can think of worse starts.

Yeah I agree with Formalhaut. Success for mafia isn't defined by taking out the powers necessarily - I mean, if you do, happy bloody days, but it's a crapshoot - in the early days if your head is down and the town are focused on squabbling over lynching townies without thinking about you then you are doing a damn fine job. And that's exactly what happened.

Sure, but failing to kill ANYONE on night 1 is a big blow to morale :p

I can't believe I survived that game. I thought going into night two and day three I was done for.

I said I'll explain how I was able to bait Mafia into claiming too.

Here is how I did it.

i was shocked when I survived night two. I made a mistake by mixing two different members who I didn't know this at the time, but were town. If you look at the thread I laid low for a good chunk of time after that.

When I survived night two I figured it was because Mafia thought they had a more powerful kill then me, yet them Role Blocking me showed them I too had a night role as that would have come back succeful to them. So when I claimed I said Smurf it anyways as half the town was looking to lynch me next, and Mafia knew I had a night move.

At this point my suspicions of Shuana had dropped a good deal as I had mixed her up with another player. (Why you shouldn't drive and Mafia) but I kept them up to set up the farce. I knew Fynn was the puppy and I had a feeling he was a goon because he had no movement night one and I have played against Fynn before when he was Mafia, and he was acting in the same way. It is why I tracked him night one.

When I claimed I insinuated that I had evidence against Shauna as the tracker to see what would go down. It was desperate I will admit but I thought nothing to lose. That's when Fynn popped his head up out of no where and dropped the I am the Doctor and helped her night one. It was exactly what I was looking to achieve. Someone to lynch who wasn't me, but Mafia. After that I was still suspicious of Shauna a bit, but when I really read what everyone else wrote about Mitsuru I had to admit she was the cop. Sorry Shauna I made this game a little hard on you.

Screw you Freya for making me doubt myself pretty heavily. :colbert:

But honestly, after Theo flipped town, it put a major dampener on my confidence in my results. Even if I couldn't be protected two consecutive nights (maybe not the best thing for Igor to slip me this information xP), I still had massive paranoia. Although, Igor's slip cemented that Koromaru defos was mafia because I suddenly had information I probably shouldn't have had.

Also, not sure why Ken roleclaimed. It just made him suspicious. Like, obviously I knew, but nobody else really bought it.

I wondered the same thing. If anything he could have claimed tracker and tossed me under the bus. More people were for killing me on day 3 then you. It would have destroyed my game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shauna

Screw you Freya for making me doubt myself pretty heavily. :colbert:

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Hehehe


So day 1 and 2 I was actually very busy. I was a bit pissed that ffnut was pointing a finger at me for no damn reason. I had a hint he was a role night one. We went for mitsuru instead for the kill and blocked shinjiro. Night to I was not going to let my hunch get away so I tried ffnut.

Day one I was like, I have a strong feeling he's a role I just know it! No one else was giving me strong vibes so whatever just go with it. Then he confirms it so just to rub it in I blocked him a few more times for the luls.

We didn't have to do trout day one and two. That was lovely.

Theeeeennnn, my victory was right there in my hand. I had just woken up when you claimed. Fynn messages asking is he should claim I said if you think you can be believable but let's see how it goes. Aki and junpei get suspicious, I send messages omg no, they are not buying it, we can work this. But fynn didn't check those as he was writing up his post and he hit publish.

My reaction was nooooooooo smurf. The moment he did it haha

At that moment it was surviving. I told him to suicide himself so you guys would shut up. And I told carn the same haha.

I was going to go heavy on scruff today but his blow up about the self vote think pretty much solidified he was town. I was grumpy.

I was talking so much trout behind the scenes though.

who cares that we lost we're still the most fabulous

My reaction to junpei saying he's got me.

"You don't got trout! Fite me!
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160808195010

You played a good game Freya, but I knew you were Mafia too. That is why I voted you day 2. You joined the conversation fine but never really tried to dig for any information that didn't point to anyone who I thought was Mafia. Really Scruff was so busy trying to dig up anything he sold me on he was town.

YEp, I pretty much ruined everything :D


BET YOU WISH YOU HAD YHE ORIGINAL KOROMARU INSTEAD, HUH :G

No you played it well Fynn. You just made one mistake. I was starting to think Carny was suspicious too due to him not doing any digging so if you didn't claim that was who I was going to try to dig out of his fox hole.

Well, of course you think that since I helped you win! :colbert:

I was so on to you already tho...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FFNut

You played a good game Freya, but I knew you were Mafia too. That is why I voted you day 2. You joined the conversation fine but never really tried to dig for any information that didn't point to anyone who I thought was Mafia. Really Scruff was so busy trying to dig up anything he sold me on he was town.

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Nope. Thay wasn't me being mafia. That was me being inactive. I'm actually very pissed you thought I was for that. Cause I would have been screwed had I been town

That and your lying blatently. I agree with paul. Mafia equals lying.

You were fortunate it panned out.

I was yes. It was a desperate shot on my end thinking I was going to be dead the next day or night phase.

Also this doesn't validate all the silly logic by the way. It was more a process of elimination. Here's some things I've avoided saying to not out myself:

• No-lynch day one does not equal mafia
• Few words on day 0 does not equal mafia
• Most often, typoes do not mean mafia.
• Not claiming town when others have does not mean mafia either. Like what, a mafia is just going to say, "oh the roles are all taken, therefore I must admit to you all that I am mafia!" Yeah no.
• Most mafia will claim vanilla townie. If it's believable, they don't get tracked or have to deal with the conflicting actual role. In games where the roles aren't told, it's even more common.
• Inactivity does not equal mafia, junpei laid low, mitsuru was busy. Both town. Come off that around here because most of us are adults and have lives.

Oh and no lynch day one does not mean mafia omg poor bobby.

You missed an obvious one. They're my bff outside of the game so they can't possibly be mafia.

How'd that one work out, Doc? ;)

Hahha yeahhhhhh sorry Tyler! I did apologize to him after we brutally murdered him. Then argued with him for an hour yesterday about my probability of winning on day 3 had fynn not claimed.

The plan was get two vote son a town and rush it. Although the carny was a bit inactive for that. But yeah Aki already suspected mitsuru, had junpei put a vote, all three hop on bam bam bam, day ends. Town lynched, night kill, win!

Yeah I think Mitsuru would've been lynched to hell and back and you could've won. Akihiko and Junpei were both all aboard that train. You might not even needed to do the rush. If those two had let up on her, one of you could've been an attack dog to sway town opinion, ripping her roleclaim to shreds as nonsense thanks to the Doctor stipulation (even though it turned out to be real, of course!)

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who didn't really care about figuring out the members behind the masks. Scruffy was the only one I got instantly and that's because his style of playing is just so distinct.

@Formy You have Junpei as a Vanilla Townie in your opening post.

Yeah honestly it wouldn't have mattered how hard we went on that day because unless aigis got that protection again, we would have won so there wouldn't have been a day 4.

When it flipped I was just trying my best to survive. Blocking junpei and killing shauna was about my only way out. There was just a tiny bit of doubt about her investigation I could have worked with. I tried to somewhat set that up day 4 while still being suspicious of ken.

Again, had scruff not blown up in here and validate his town postion, I think I could have worked that angle. We left him alive for that reason, he was so all over the place we felt it was more of a town distraction then help.

Day two I actually forgot vivi was playing and thought aigis was psy. Then I was like smurf he has to go. Because psy, you're a monster. But then I remembered you weren't and Tyler was soooo

If you know who the person is, you know how they play. It shouldn't happen, that's the point of the accounts. But it's also half the fun

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freya

Oh and no lynch day one does not mean mafia omg poor bobby.

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<3~

Well it looks like we won. Good game everyone!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freya

Again, had scruff not blown up in here and validate his town postion, I think I could have worked that angle. We left him alive for that reason, he was so all over the place we felt it was more of a town distraction then help.

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Being all over the place doesn't necessarily mean scum. When you're playing a vanilla role, you're kind of free to approach the game however you want. You don't have any way of obtaining information through an ability so you have to do things the old fashioned way: scumhunting.

My play for the first two days was definitely a little bit sloppy since there was hardly anything to work off of, haha. I think Day 3 was when I really turned my game around.

Meanwhile, look at what y'all all did to me.

https://i.imgur.com/xmRS8kB.png

I really only think you were able to because of the obvious mafia slip up ha.

Playing all over the place doesn't usually help the town, it distracts them. You should have seen us scramble about an old member called demondude. Now his plays were absolutely crazy. Haha

Also I actually was playing portal 2 ha. Glaados is a bitch. Probably cause I murdered her in the first game. So Sassy

Yeah, no offense, but that play style was actually the least threatening to us throughout since we knew that even if you personally had "pinned down" any one of us, we could hand wave it since I think there wasn't a single person you didn't point your finger at


And YAS, KARIFEAN!!!! PERSONA!!!


Now that only leaves Freya, I believe :colbert:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karifean

Meanwhile, look at what y'all all did to me.

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Yeah, this is probably gonna be me soon!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freya

I really only think you were able to because of the obvious mafia slip up ha.

Playing all over the place doesn't usually help the town, it distracts them. You should have seen us scramble about an old member called demondude. Now his plays were absolutely crazy. Haha

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The mafia slip up definitely helped yeah. But really when you're playing a vanilla town you don't have much information to go on until someone makes a role claim or you can notice some specific voting and gameplay patterns.

I did notice both you and Fynn vote for me by the end of Day 2 which started making me suspect you two more than other players. I knew my playstyle would get me a lot of heat, and the mafia would almost certainly use me as a free lynch if they needed to. That was kind of my plan in a sense: I was trying to lure out some of the mafia to take the bait (me).