America Under Attack thread (read first, please)

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09-12-2001, 03:59 AM
Britt

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Unne
I think I'll become a prophet. I can make up metaphors too.

Precisely. I would believe him if he said "The two great towers will be destroyed by kamikaze birds of fire." But.. nope.

[edit] DJ, I pray to whatever might be listening that your cousin, and the loved ones of everyone else, are safe. Our family's good friends have a daughter who works around the World Trade Center.

It is not the fault of muslims that this is happening. We don't even know if it was muslims that seized the planes. For all we know, it may have been purple men from Mars. Don't blame yourself, or anyone. This was an act of terrorism- not of a race or religion.
09-12-2001, 04:01 AM
The Omega Factor

Defy those terrorists, we still have American pride. Show your spirit by:

Please, wear red, white, and blue tomorrow in honor of the tragedy of what has been going on...send this to all who you know....
09-12-2001, 04:04 AM
Dr Unne

Somehow, I'm having trouble understanding the philosophy some of you have that, since other countries have had large losses of life in the past, and since other countries are horrible and dangerous places to live, that the US is guilty in some way. Like "Hey America, we're suffering in our country, and you're not. We hate the Americans because they're not suffering too". Why do we have to suffer too? Is it unfair that the US escaped the horrible things that happen in other countries? I don't understand how it is.

Woudn't a better philosophy be that it's GOOD that America hasn't suffered in the past? And that we should all try to STOP the suffering in other countries? Instead of hating America for being a good place to live? And wishing more suffering on America? Would it be better if America was as subject to terrorism daily as the worst countries in the world? How would that be better?
09-12-2001, 04:10 AM
Funkmonkey Deluxe

Dr. Unne, I could not agree with you more. Basically, the philosophy there is "Misery loves company".
09-12-2001, 04:10 AM
Dark Holy

Quote:

Originally posted by FFmusic dj
.. this isnt all that has been bothering me ... but since I am a muslim .. I know I cant go to school tommorw cause people will just hate me ...

Nobody is going to hate you 'cause of your religion... it's just not right, people won't do it, especially after something like this, so don't worry....

about your cousin, I'll be praying too... I hope he's ok..
09-12-2001, 04:12 AM
Danni

Quote:

Originally posted by FFmusic dj
I just found out ........ my cousin ....... worked at the N tower .... damn !!! .. why did he have to go early .... I dont know if he survirved ....... I'll be praying ... ...... I truly hope he's ok ....... this isnt all that has been bothering me ... but since I am a muslim .. I know I cant go to school tommorw cause people will just hate me ...

I'm sorry DJ. I know what it's like to not know... I'm doing it right now.. My friend's father works in the trade center.. i hope he didn't get to work yet when it happened.. and some of my friends were in manhatten today. *hugs*

as for school, People will most defiantely over react and pass judgement on you and that's awful. I really don't know what else to say except I'm sorry, and I hope that people can look past that and see you for who you are.

I'm finished with this entire situation for now. I'm feeling ill, and worn. My friends and I have decided to give blood and attempt to volunteer at the red cross tomorrow.

To all of those who have lost or may have lost loved ones, I'm very very sorry. My thoughts, prayers and wishes are with you all.
09-12-2001, 04:16 AM
Funkmonkey Deluxe

Quote:

Originally posted by Dark Holy

Nobody is going to hate you 'cause of your religion... it's just not right, people won't do it, especially after something like this, so don't worry....

about your cousin, I'll be praying too... I hope he's ok..

They might. There's some pretty screwed up people out there. I mean, look at all those people in the middle east celebrating in the streets because the World Trading Center is leveled, the Pentagon was in flames, and masses of American Citizens died.
09-12-2001, 04:22 AM
Dark Holy

Quote:

Originally posted by Wolfwood

They might. There's some pretty screwed up people out there. I mean, look at all those people in the middle east celebrating in the streets because the World Trading Center is leveled, the Pentagon was in flames, and masses of American Citizens died.

No, everybody will probably be angry at the terrorists and hating someone for no apparent reason would be doing just what the terrorists did. So I don't think anyone will hate him.
09-12-2001, 04:33 AM
krissy

I've already met plenty of people who don't fit that more positive group, Dark Holy.
DJ, .... Sorry. Get through it as well as you can, we're here, same for anyone else who loast something today.
09-12-2001, 04:44 AM
Dark Holy

Quote:

Originally posted by Reno Leonheart
I've already met plenty of people who don't fit that more positive group, Dark Holy.
DJ, .... Sorry. Get through it as well as you can, we're here, same for anyone else who loast something today.

No! People may say they hate muslims, but they won't actually hate FFmusic dj even though he's muslim! Hating people that you don't know or a group of people is much different and much easier than hating an individual that you know! Nobody will do it! They can't! *sigh* maybe I'm just too green...
09-12-2001, 04:55 AM
ew2x4

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Unne
Nostradamus said the U.S. was going to have a Democratic president during Apocalypse?

Not likely.

I think I'll become a prophet. I can make up metaphors too. All you have to do is make a couple thousand of them, to cover a whole lot of possibilities, and make sure people keep reading them for hundreds of years, so that there's a good chance of stuff happening to fit the possibilities.

I'd be really surprised if there wasn't a prophecy of Nostradamus that could be interpreted to fit this situation. But notice how absolutely no one interpreted that prophecy as "Planes will crash into the WTC and the Pentagon" before today.

Acctually there were a few reports that did predict the possibility of that happening. A few terrorism experts exploted that weakness.

As for leaving the terrorists alone, I think that would be pretty bad. Not only will they attack again, but the country will lose all sense of leadership and trust. Besides, terrorists kill well over a thousand people. Do you think that would be right if we let them walk?

And Dr. Unne, I think the thing that terrorists are thinking is "the USA has hurt our innocent people so we should show them." It's true that the USA has killed innocent people, but at the same time we regret it. In no way does the USA seek colateral damage(innocent's dying), atleast to my knowledge. But these terrorists purposely go out and seek civilians. They don't attack the head of some military leader, they go after the average Joe going to work unknowingly about to die in an act of what they think is patriotism that most people can't fathom or comprehend in a hundred years. I doubt I'll ever get over seeing that plane in it's last seconds.

Over the past 14 hours I have seen the best and the worst of human nature. Sometimes the most gutwrenching act can bring out the most brotherly love in everyone. Only time can tell what the future holds in store for us.
09-12-2001, 04:56 AM
QuisFarisFuu

This is so hard . . . over a thousand dead between the planes and the Pentagon, the news says, not even touching the WTC yet.

And I don't know why exactly this is so affecting, but seeing the ragged flags still up on their staffs next to the rubble is terrible.
09-12-2001, 05:20 AM
screwtifa

It's scary that something like this can happen at any time. And we pretty much have zero protection from an attack of this nature. Also that the terrorists that were flying the plane had enough determination to kill themselves along with the plane. Why do they hate the United States? Did we do something wrong? On the news, I saw palestinians dancing in the street....celebrating that our country has lost such a great deal........people are sick. Especially Palestinian people.

EDIT: The planes that were hijacked and flown into the twin towers both came from boston. My Aunt was scheduled to leave from boston to here(tennessee) today, on a later flight. Don't worry, my Aunt is fine. I just thought it was weird that she was probably in the same ficinity as the terrorist.
09-12-2001, 05:42 AM
Asorie

Okay, it's late, and I'm a little calmer, and I'm going to try to collect my thoughts.

I have been hearing people describe this as a second Pearl Harbor all day, now. I disagree...Pearl Harbor was different-we knew our enemies, it was a military base, and it was not peacetime, really. This is totally different.

And this is a terrorist attack? It seems to me that while this inspired terror among those present, it inspired a lot more of the lower human emotions and qualities- the greed already appearing in gas gouging nationwide, the absolute naive shock that anyone would dare to attack our "wonderful nation", hatred towards anyone we suspect of the crime and anyone resembling the suspected ones, and bloodthirstyness.

Yes, of course this whole thing literally sickens me. The horror I feel while looking upon the scene just wells up inside my stomach and chokes me. But something makes me feel a lot worse, and that's the people here who want nothing more than to go bomb Afghanistan. "You killed our countrymen!" we say, without proof. "Now you ought to die!"

Sure, that would be one thing if we had proof. It would be one thing if you wanted to bomb only military installations. But you people out there who are screaming for revenge want to bomb the entire country out of existance. You know who is in Afghanistan, who are the reason I have been saying we needed to intercede there for years now? The oppressed women who have fallen under the iron hand of the Taliban government. Yeah, you know, those women who are blinded if they are caught learning how to read, stoned to death for having a toe peek out of the hem of their robes, and not allowed to leave their homes or look out the window without a familial male escort? What about their children? Even if Afghanistan were sheltering Bin Laden, and if Bin Laden was behind this, those women and children have no say whatsoever in their government. Would you have the oppressed die because of the decisions of a few men? If that's the revenge you seek, you are just as bad as those who committed todays tragic crimes, and by your own logic, would be fair game to Afghan peoples seeking revenge again. It's an endless, vicious cycle.

There is not much left to say about what happened today. It really does go beyond words. It's like Oklahoma City, the Challenger, the old WTC bombing, Pompeii, and the 1989 earthquake all combined into one. It still feels like a dream or a movie rather than reality. The security that's being put into affect is going to change our lives. The borders are sealed. They have never been sealed like this before. There is effectively no travel, with no airplanes flying and gas prices anywhere from five to nine dollars a gallon. There are fighters on patrol in our airspace as we speak. There are armed guards all over- a friend of mine who works in Chicago was escorted out of his building by visibly armed Secret Service people today, and got to see the snipers positioned on the rooftops in the Loop. This is not the life we are used to, and it's not ever going to be again.

Gone is our arrogant self-confidence. Gone is our naive idea of perfect safety through selective personal isolationism. Gone are thousands of innocents and the hopes and dreams of their loved ones. Perhaps we ought to think a little harder before we take action, lest we become that which will haunt us for decades.
09-12-2001, 06:00 AM
QuisFarisFuu

Quote:

On the news, I saw palestinians dancing in the street....celebrating that our country has lost such a great deal........people are sick. Especially Palestinian people.

Please - yes, the displays of joy are sickening. But the people being shown on television are not the entire population. Single out a group like that and you're indulging in the same blanket hatred that motivated the New York / D.C. attacks.

May nothing like this ever happen again.
09-12-2001, 06:21 AM
ErdricksArmor

Quote:

Originally posted by Mikztsu
I knew that Palestinians would celebrate this. It's just that they see USA as evil, their children grow up hearing how evil they are. They really hate US and maybe for reason. They think it's honor the be a human bomb. While ago I read an article how Palestinian father proudly said how his son will be suicide bomber. Life doesn't mean much to them. There's lots of anger and hate in these people, and that shows.

You know, it's really sick and twisted of you to generalize an entire race of people like that.
09-12-2001, 06:36 AM
ErdricksArmor

Edited by Unne: Do not insult anyone on this MB. This is your first and last warning.
09-12-2001, 06:39 AM
American Badass

Asorie, you hit the nail right on it's damned head with what you said. Every last word.

Don't get me wrong. As an American, I am sickened over what happened. But we really have got to get past our narrow perspective that America is so great. Let's be real here. There have been situations in the past in which America seriously f***ed up...not that the government would ever really let you find out about it.

But aside from that, realize that justice must be served with a sense of humanity. Vengence is never the answer. It just lowers an intolerable situation to further intolerable conditions. If you seek revenge, than you've already lost. I want justice just as much as everyone else, but let it be upon those who were involved and those who harbored these people who would threaten our lives.
09-12-2001, 06:54 AM
Phoenix

I live in Can.
but me concern for those americans too......
hope they're alright.......
btw.......i heard that someone had predict that the current Presid*** would be assa*inated
I hope this won't come true.........
*world peace*
09-12-2001, 07:06 AM
Dr Unne

Vengeance is horrible. But we need to get rid of whoever did this. If that means killing the person or persons who were responsible for this or who helped this take place, then I think we need to kill them. We can't let people get away with something like this.

But yes, we should take care that we definitely know who we're going after, and we shouldn't bomb a whole country out of existence or something. We shouldn't respond to terrorism with terrorism. But we should respond with force, if we have to.
09-12-2001, 07:07 AM
Dr. Disco

I can't sleep

The more I think about this, the more my stomach hurts.

There's a chance I may wake up dead tomorrow...
09-12-2001, 07:12 AM
Dr Unne

You could wake up dead every day. There's always the chance, and there always has been, and there always will be. Most people just never think about it until something bad happens.
09-12-2001, 07:14 AM
Sephex

To the people who say killing them is worng: They kill eachother! I mean, they have been at war for 1000+ years!

My point is that they sit there and bomb eachother so if we dont bomb them...they will evntually kill themsleves...

EVERY DAY on the news I see that they are killing eachother...they say we are evil so one side decided to fu*k us over and we should do nothing....sure violence breeds more violence but if we sit here and do nohting they will make more attacks....
09-12-2001, 07:15 AM
m4tt

I avoided this thread until now. I think I just realized how much happened today. I was watching the news, showing scenes of people leaping to there deaths out of the towers. I guess that would be the better way to go then burning alive, or being crushed by the building. You'd probably pass out on your way down :/

Just watching the news made me even more depressed. Watching the people in the other country celebrating. That's sad. The ABC and CBS reporters have been there since 6am pacific time. I freakin woke up to Dan Rather's face, and I'm going to bed before he has even left the office. He looked so tired :/

This is just a draining day on everyone I think, I hope it's all over soon :(
09-12-2001, 07:16 AM
Dr. Disco

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Unne
You could wake up dead every day. There's always the chance, and there always has been, and there always will be. Most people just never think about it until something bad happens.

But the odds are nil. But now, this:

'the flights that were Highjacked were from United and AA, they were numbered as follows:

11, 93, 175, and 77

11 = Today's Date
9+3 = 12 = Tomorrow
1+7+5 = 13 = Thursday
7+7 = 14 = Friday'

That's a bit eerie. Luckily, I live in El Paso, so its doubtful they'd attack here. But still, it's a frightening thought.
09-12-2001, 07:22 AM
m4tt

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Disco

But the odds are nil. But now, this:

'the flights that were Highjacked were from United and AA, they were numbered as follows:

11, 93, 175, and 77

11 = Today's Date
9+3 = 12 = Tomorrow
1+7+5 = 13 = Thursday
7+7 = 14 = Friday'

Jesus, I never looked at it that way >_<

That kinda reminds me of what Bonnie said tonight:
"did you know that in Revelations 18 it talks about towers falling and the smoke bilowing out and being visable for miles and merchants will weep because no one will buy thir goods, and the numbers of 3 of the flights add up to 11, 12 and 13 and Revelations 9/11(today's date) says that the first woe has passed and to be prepared for 2 more"

that's so scary...
09-12-2001, 07:25 AM
Super Christ

I think the numbers thing is reading a bit much into it. But it is an interesting coincidence, like it's an interesting coincidence that a conference about dealing with terrorism was scheduled to start today here in Salt Lake City for the olympics - just weird that the worst terrorism attack we've ever had occured on the same day a conference on terrorism started. At least nobody cares about Salt Lake until February. Maybe I should leave for the olympics.
09-12-2001, 07:26 AM
Jewels

This just seems like a nightmare. I still can't believe this has happened. I just feel like crying all of a sudden. I never thought about crying until I came online and talking to these people from the States....it's just a bit overwhelming. Anyone from here could've been on one of those planes and it just makes me realise how much I care about everyone!
09-12-2001, 07:34 AM
Dr Unne

Matt: They're just numbers. Geez. They don't mean anything.

That chapter of Revelations also says that the city that's going to be smited would be smited because of fornication. Were they fornicating in the WTC? If you interpret "fornication" as a metaphor, it automatically takes on any meaning you want, aka. it's completely worthless.

The one who is going to do the smiting is God himself, by means of an Angel. Unless you interpret "angel" as "terrorist highjacker", I don't see how this applies. And it even names the city in that verse: Babylon. The "goods" that won't be traded are also named: food, clothes, spices, horses, sheep, perfume, and slaves. Were they selling sheep and slaves in the WTC?
09-12-2001, 07:42 AM
m4tt

Yes, I realize that they are just numbers. It's just a strange coincidence, that's all. Don't mind me, I'm tired and sick, my head isn't on straight right now.
09-12-2001, 09:44 AM
Mikztsu

Quote:

Originally posted by ErdricksArmor

You know, it's really sick and twisted of you to generalize an entire race of people like that.

I didn't mean to generalize, ErdricksArmor. I ment in my post those who took such a joy out from that, and I'm sure most of us knows not all Palestinians like that.
I'm sure there were many people who didn't celebrate this day in there. I still believe that most of them were happy, and that much I will generalize: Most Palestinians.

Those number are strange coincidence indeed, and I believe it's just coincidence.
09-12-2001, 09:53 AM
Loony BoB

It's only now that people really realise just what other people in this world might feel.

If we went and retaliated, and bombed a city in Afghanistan and then celebrated at the result... think about it. Why do something unless it's worth celebrating, to you? Should we (and I say 'we' as I feel like I'm just as affected by this as every other person... though, I'm not, as I am a New Zealander) go and do exactly what they have done?

I liked how the Gulf War was sorted out, even though innocent lives were lost, it was done in minimal numbers - just pick off the important military buildings, and you're sorted. That's how this should be done - should it be a country. If it's a terrorist group... well, then, we have a nice group of countries that are more than willing to help us, so hey, let's go find 'em.

I've found that some leaders are actually more willing to go and get these terrorist groups than the Americans... weird, that. Though... I don't think anyone has really felt the full blow of this. It's only day one (in New Zealand, it was 1am today, aka the 12th)... no more than 20 hours have passed, so... yeah. I hate to think what could still come. I got exams tomorrow, and I'm pissed, coz my mind is now on other things...

I hate war, totally. It bites, big time.

I think Skanker deserves more credit for this poem, as it will not get too many views in the Writer's Corner:

The Innocents

Joe sits at his desk,
does his job,
lives his life,
does his best.

Joe died today
Sitting at his desk.
Doing his job,
Doing his best.

He won't get a chance
To live his life again.
Because a few don't
Care about the innocents.

Magnify your problems,
Increase your frustrations.
Construct your bombs,
And destroy all nations.

With the world this way,
everything must change.
Because it seems to me
That the innocents are no longer.
09-12-2001, 11:01 AM
Denial

A terrible terrorist attack on you people in NY.
Hope everything improves and Bush gets rid of the people responsible!

It's such a shock!

I grieve with you all!

Soon there will be a time when all these things will just be a thing of the past but until then, we all need to help each other!
09-12-2001, 11:26 AM
Wolfboy

I have to be honest here, I'm siding with Asoire.

In fact, I'd like to quote from a discussion I had last night. I said that justice and war are entirely two different things, to which my friend (an American, unlike me) said...

Quote:

THe US would go in with a lot more force, trust me, if the US goes in, its going to be sateration bombing, you would see rives of fire droping from the sky. You don't get it, by doing what thay did, thay called for no quarter, the US will respond, and it will respond hard, if there is a country behind this, that country will be distroyed, totaly. If that means killing every man woman and child in that country, thay will still do it, and a warning to anyone else who might want to try.

The sad thing is, I believe that this is the kind of thing that the US would do. Scorched Earth. And two wrongs certainly do not make a right.

I may sound very British here, but a true retort here should in my opinion not factor all out aggression in an already frail world. If I were in charge, allow intelligence to discover the people responsible and arrange a SUBTLE line of covert assassinations. Just because they (whoever 'they' are) killed thousands of your innocents doesn't mean that you should do the same to theirs.
09-12-2001, 12:26 PM
Kairo

"Lowly lifeforms" as Edea would say.
WWIII has a high possibility of happening. It's not gonna be a power-ursurping war, it's gonna be a religion-fighting war. Didn't you know? The hatred between Muslims and the US have been an age-old enmity.
09-12-2001, 01:11 PM
Britt

If Muslims hated the United States, why do so many Muslims live the Untied States?

It may be my atheist attitude shining through, guys, but I think leaping on numbers and prophesizing Doomsday because of them is foolish. I realize that we are all mad with grief, but one must always keep one's head. I think that dwelling over Nostradamus and Revelation is foolish to even bother with, while right in front of us we have more to worry about. Jumping at shadows like this is just making everything worse for everyone, I think.

Second, I wish people would stop pointing fingers. I know that this is a terrible time, and that many people need restitution for this atrocity. However, cruxifying the Afghans, Palestinians, and Israelis for a troupe of immature dancing... imbeciles is wrong. A group of insane civilians does not point at a corrupt government, So, until we have solid proof of anything, we must not be so insulting and hasty. Afghanistan and Palastine have spoken out against the celebrations, and Israel has gone so far as to declare September 12 a day of silent tragedy and mourning.

Even if we did have solid evidence as to who organized this, (and we do not. The hijackers could just as easily be crazed Americans. There is no reason to seriously maintain that Muslims have done this.) we would merely be doing the same thing again that they have done to us, by bombing them. We weep for terrorism and choose to solve it with.. a massacre of more innocent lives? I should hope not.
09-12-2001, 01:43 PM
nn_neo_nn

Hi,

I just read through all the thread just now. I like to make a few comments. If they seem offensive, sorry but we all have our own opinions.

First of all, my prayers and thoughts go out to the victims families and the injured.

I guess I can go into what I was thinking. Yes, I am an American, and yes I was sick to see what I saw on the TV yesterday. Nowdays, I have to say, we shouldnt be shocked about anything. All you see is violence. You see in on TV, read about on the newspaper. We as a nation have been weak. Yes weak, I will say that cause that is how I feel. I feel like we dont punish people the proper way. Like Bin Ladin, this nut has been on the run for what 3 years, have we caught him, no we have not. We are suppose to be the world police, and the world meator(didnt spell that right). We as a country cant do this all, yes we get some support from our allies in europe and were ever else we can. But as a country, its time for the leaders to stop talking crap and start doing something about it by actions. Personally who ever is responsible should be killed. My personal opinion, and yes I would have to say this is what the majority of Adult Americans think, you dont come to america and do this to us. I know alot of people are not of age, I mean no offense to you, you feel as sick as everyone else here in america, in some of the threading i read, someone menitioned there going to kill us like it was a joke at school, I probably would have said, what if your family member or someone you knew was there, you wouldnt joke about it.

We arnt going to go to WW3, I highly doubt that, if we go to war, were going after the people responsbily for it. I look at this way, if s*** hits the s*** fan, we would be drafting people with the draft. I will gladly go and defend my country, It just pisses me off that our leaders talk crap but yet never do anything about it. If we the free world leader then, we need to act like it, I feel to a degree maybe we might have prevented this if we had taken measures along time ago. Yes, our government does so much crap under the table, we dont know what is really going on unless your in the intellengece community.

As for the palestines celebrating what was happening,
well thats just there feelings. Personally dont think they have ever cared for us, as well as other people. People will be allowed to have their own opinion, including us. No one will forget what happened yesterday, I know I wont.
09-12-2001, 02:23 PM
Dr. Disco

Quote:

Originally posted by Britt
If Muslims hated the United States, why do so many Muslims live the Untied States?

It may be my atheist attitude shining through, guys, but I think leaping on numbers and prophesizing Doomsday because of them is foolish. I realize that we are all mad with grief, but one must always keep one's head. I think that dwelling over Nostradamus and Revelation is foolish to even bother with, while right in front of us we have more to worry about. Jumping at shadows like this is just making everything worse for everyone, I think.

I am also pretty much athiest, and I don't think this means God's going to be shooting us down with lightning. I think the terrorists worked their attack like that on purpose, meaning maybe there's more destruction ahead. I'm praying(You would be surprised how much religion changes this has put me through) there's not.

Quote:

Second, I wish people would stop pointing fingers. I know that this is a terrible time, and that many people need restitution for this atrocity. However, cruxifying the Afghans, Palestinians, and Israelis for a troupe of immature dancing... imbeciles is wrong. A group of insane civilians does not point at a corrupt government, So, until we have solid proof of anything, we must not be so insulting and hasty. Afghanistan and Palastine have spoken out against the celebrations, and Israel has gone so far as to declare September 12 a day of silent tragedy and mourning.

Israel is on our side, isn't it?
I could also see why they'd rejoice. Some are bastards, yes, but some don't know more than "All Americans are evil."
Hmm, maybe because we forced them off their land to live in refugee camps? Could be.

Quote:

Even if we did have solid evidence as to who organized this, (and we do not. The hijackers could just as easily be crazed Americans. There is no reason to seriously maintain that Muslims have done this.) we would merely be doing the same thing again that they have done to us, by bombing them. We weep for terrorism and choose to solve it with.. a massacre of more innocent lives? I should hope not.

I'm hoping there won't be jumping to conclusions, but most evidence points to Bin-ladin. Still, I don't care who it is, these people deserve cold-hearted, brutal death. Japan attacked a military target at Pearl Harbour-that's different. These evil...I can't even think of a word to describe them beyond that...they knowingly took the lives of THOUSANDS. Not military, innocent civilians who were just doing their job. It just sickens me, to the pit of my soul.
09-12-2001, 02:26 PM
^_^Squall202

I jus hope this Chaos doesn't lead to a WAR!!! not World World III....i jus hope they settle themselves down without a WAR..
09-12-2001, 03:05 PM
the_other_guy

If you're asking me, which you're not, but I'm telling it anyway, America is uncapable of fighting, let alone, evading it. And what's important is not who did it, why they did it or what to do against it. What's important is what we can learn from this. Apparently, Bush hasn't learned a thing. What did I hear him say?

"We will hunt down and destroy the man who did this!!"

Alright, whoever did this needs to be punished, I'm not going to argue this. But hunting him down, that means he hasn't learned a thing from what happened here. What will Bush's actions lead to? Most probably WW3. I guess he's looking for war. He hasn't done anything humane since he became president.

Death penalty ==> inhumane.
Kyoto-scandal ==> inhumane.
Planning to invade Afghanistan ==> inhumane.
Wanting war in general ==> inhumane.

Being attacked by terrorists is nothing to be surprised about if you're doing these things. After all, Nostradamus did talk about 3 world wars, the third beginning with the Brothers (WTC - Towers) being attacked by magical birds (the airplanes) ...
09-12-2001, 03:52 PM
Pharoh Amon Khan III

Here I come to give my say....

You know that Pharoh Khan is on his waaaayyy...

That was song to the tune of "Mighty Mouse"... :)

C'mon... smile that you can folks and kids in light of this dark time...

I believe that this possibly may be the work of one if not several religious zealots who think that the doomsday train is running late.

The world is supposed to be in the 'Last Days' now and nothing much as 'prophezied' has occured yet.

So what do these santified zealots do? Well, the may feel 'annointed' by the hand of 'God' or whom/whatever to be the 'hand of fate' that bring about actions that bring about the 'prophecy'.

You can predict the weather, but that doesn't mean its gonna turn out as you believe... or if its gonna happen at all...

Well, as the top weather man, with my weather making machine... I'll MAKE it happen because... some big omnipotent cosmic, all powerful, all knowing, disembodied voice... inside my head... Told me that it would happen... or I gotta make it happen because it was 'prophesized' to happen...

I'll give more later...

Also, it is quite possibly that Venladin is being 'framed' by an opposing faction seeking to overtake him...

Or it was just some arabic version of a 'neo-nazi' sympathizer for Venladin in the US that staged this. Just to say "Hey! Venny! I'm wit ya man! I'll show you how much I'm wit yas!" :rolleyes2

Terran Humans are just SO human natured! Idiotic...
:rolleyes2
09-12-2001, 04:11 PM
Harmony

dont hate me, just an opinion

Can someone tell me how any of this has affected me yet? Coz everyone is beating themselves up speculating about all kindsa troute they dont even really know about. Sure, it might do soon (a war?) but some innocent people that i never wouldve met or even thought about their existence before this died, doesnt that happen every day? Yeah its terrible thing to have happened but i think theres a lot of worse things that really do affect everybody that do happen continuously. Theres a lot of strange thinkers here, i think some of you may have some idea what i mean. If theres a war or it in some way actually affects my life, then ill trout myself and start worrying but im gonna lose sleep over it till then.

Ive just reread that and it makes me sound like an uncaring asshole, thats not true, i do care but who am i decide if any of this is right or wrong and why should i give myself a headache about it (coz thats all my thoughts are gonna do) until theres actually some action for me to take? Im carrying on with my life.
09-12-2001, 04:37 PM
Trance Zidane

I was very worried when they had people working in Dallas evacuate. My mom works in Dallas. But she got home safely. Now I am worried about the rest of my family in Maryland, they'll be greatly affected by this tragedy also. I hope you guys are doing alright through this, and I send prayers to all families of the victims.

~My mom got on the news last night. She was in a purple dress. Did you see her?~
09-12-2001, 04:44 PM
SpikingZero

I am shocked...just shocked...

I heard about it during lunch time yesterday. I was absolutely disgusted with what went on. Even though I live in Canada, it affects me deeply, because, even though if the US has done anything "bad" in the past, what was done was absolutely unacceptable...attacking civilian buildings has got to be the worse form of attack I've ever seen.

I've checked certain sites, and the people who went on these missions had their Quran/Koran with them. It's the holy book of the Muslim religion. What ticks me off is that we worship the exact same God, just with different believes in Jesus, etc.

These Muslims have destroyed God's people, and had they attacked the White House, we would have been in World War III for sure. However right now, I'm certain that they're not going to result in war, for it really isn't necessary, as odd enough as it may seem.

I send my prayers to those who have had family lost in the crash.

Something like this will take months to recover from. Just...just plain awful...
09-12-2001, 05:19 PM
mac32mac

i'll bet my copy of FF9 and hirobie sakaguchies toenails that there will be a war with atleast 5 differant countries involved..........it is a guarntee that US with wage war against that guy (forget his name) and that guy has also trained over 50,000 troops......PLUS the ppl that agree with whgat was done to US.so that probley means they will bring in NATO........keep your eyes in the skies
09-12-2001, 05:37 PM
Endless

Quote:

Originally posted by mac32mac
i'll bet my copy of FF9 and hirobie sakaguchies toenails that there will be a war with atleast 5 differant countries involved..........it is a guarntee that US with wage war against that guy (forget his name) and that guy has also trained over 50,000 troops......PLUS the ppl that agree with whgat was done to US.so that probley means they will bring in NATO........keep your eyes in the skies

Any country name?

Don't ... just don't. War is more than serious, and I wish that it doesn't happen. The only war mentionned so far is against terrorism, and involves most of the countries around the world.
09-12-2001, 05:39 PM
Garnet of Alexandria

:mad: Sighs this is becoming incredibly annyoing going through page after page of posts, so I decided to start a new topic and what do they do.. CLOSE IT!!!!!!!!

Anyway I agree, a War is ineviatable now... and it will more than likely be a world war because there are many Countries out there who would like to see America crumble..............

And now the USA are 90% sure that Laseen is behind it so they will retaliate soon and it'll all start off from there.

Gee.. this is scary. :cry: I don't want a World War!
09-12-2001, 05:56 PM
Rainecloud

Quote:

Posted by Garnet

Anyway I agree, a War is ineviatable now... and it will more than likely be a world war because there are many Countries out there who would like to see America crumble..............

Although I first thought that, I doubt it will turn into a world war. Although there are many countries that dislike the USA, they're not all going to attack now...that would simply be foolish. If that does happen, the USA will retaliate like it did with the Hiroshima and literally wipe out the opposition. If there is a World War, it's not going to last very long. Pick on the USA, and you're dead - basically. This act was carried out by TERRORISTS, not a particular country. These terrorists are alone responsible for what happened, and you cannot blame an entire country for the act. Although the Palestinians were rejoicing in the streets, some in that country are innocent, and who's to say the Palestinians had anything to do with it? This was organised by a small terrorist faction...one which cannot be determined at this time.

*Everyone points to Bin Ladin*

Quote:

Posted by Garnet

Sighs this is becoming incredibly annyoing going through page after page of posts, so I decided to start a new topic and what do they do.. CLOSE IT!!!!!!!!

They closed it because that's their duty. This thread is perfectly adequate to discuss this matter. If there were more threads, people would get confused and there would be two or more seperate discussions about it. One thread for people to voice their opinions together.
09-12-2001, 06:07 PM
Garnet of Alexandria

:whoa: Someone replied to one of my posts!!! Wow I'm not invisible ;)

Anyway let me refresh your memory:

Quote:

President Bush: We will not hesitate to wipe out the terrorists and their hosts

The "HOSTS" are the country that surpported the oporation financally and by other means, so they will wipe out at least one country in their retaliation.

And what about Pearl Harbor, the Americans didn't hesitate about killing innocents then so whos to say the won't hesitate this time? It's a thing known all over the world as the:

AMERICAN RAGE

So think about it, are we being giving white lies by the US President and UK Prime Minister?

Nearly every ally of America is at risk and to be frankly honest I don't think anybody was expecting this.. nor do they know how to handle the situation.

If there is a war, the amount of spare nukes lying around will mean that most of the world will be obliterated and there will be a high chance that the terrorists may seize some warheads... who knows they might be plotting it right now?

Think about it... are we as safe as we think?
09-12-2001, 06:18 PM
Cz

I got beaten up today, after I started a fight with a kid who was laughing about it.

LAUGHING??? How can anyone laugh about something like that? That is almost as bad as celebrating! I seriously wanted to kill the boy. He doesn't care about thousands of lives being lost? I'm sure he wouldn't mind one more added to that tally...

OK, that is over the top, but wouldn't you get mad at him?
09-12-2001, 06:21 PM
Garland

I don't see why the entire middle east is getting the blame for this. On the NY Times, there was an article describing the world leaders thoughts on this. Of course all of Europe pledged its support, as did Russia. I think Russia was one of the countries that offered more than sympathy, sort of in the same camp with England. Israel declared a day of mourning. Palestine pledged support, and asked if we wanted help seaking out the terrorists. Iran who has rarely seen eye to eye with the US also offered condolences. Afghanistan condemned the attack, and I believe them. Why, because they're in the midst of a civil war themselves. Things are rough there, and the Taliban, however oppressive they might be, aren't foolish enough to start a second war. Cuba, who we've crippled with an embargo for 50 years, not only offered support and medical assistance, but played on their national tv, programming about the tragedy and how horrible it was. Only Iraq supported the attack, but really, with Saddam in control, did you expect sympathy? I just think it's touching how the whole world, friend or former enemy are coming to our aid. Some may say the're only covering their butts, but I think most if not all of them are pretty sincere.
09-12-2001, 06:23 PM
Rainecloud

Quote:

Posted by Black Mage

LAUGHING??? How can anyone laugh about something like that? That is almost as bad as celebrating! I seriously wanted to kill the boy. He doesn't care about thousands of lives being lost? I'm sure he wouldn't mind one more added to that tally...

People often laugh at inappropriate moments Mage, when they are scared, nervous or upset. I'm sure he didn't mean it...
09-12-2001, 06:39 PM
Cz

Didn't seem like it at the time. Although I never liked him, I suppose I was just waiting for an excuse to yell at him.
09-12-2001, 06:45 PM
Wolfboy

Quote:

I don't see why the entire middle east is getting the blame for this.

Personally, I think that it was more than likely that it was done by an internal group, someone FROM the US. I mean, think about it. They'd know that the Middle East would get the blame. As to why, it's human nature to consider threats to be something external.

I just want to go on record right now by saying...
This is NOT the end of the world. This has NOT been prophecised by Nostradamus/the bible/Kreskin/anything else. And there is NOT going to be a war, for goodness sake! I mean, be realistic here for a minute. There's a difference between a military strike and a terrorist attack, mostly that wars are started because of military, not terrorism. If they do respond with voilence, it will not streach out into a war.
09-12-2001, 07:01 PM
Rainecloud

Quote:

Posted by Wolfboy

I just want to go on record right now by saying...This is NOT the end of the world. This has NOT been prophecised by Nostradamus/the bible/Kreskin/anything else. And there is NOT going to be a war, for goodness sake! I mean, be realistic here for a minute. There's a difference between a military strike and a terrorist attack, mostly that wars are started because of military, not terrorism. If they do respond with voilence, it will not streach out into a war.

I second that and agree with you totally.
09-12-2001, 07:05 PM
Mikztsu

Quote:

Originally posted by Wolfboy

I just want to go on record right now by saying...
This is NOT the end of the world. This has NOT been prophecised by Nostradamus/the bible/Kreskin/anything else. And there is NOT going to be a war, for goodness sake! I mean, be realistic here for a minute. There's a difference between a military strike and a terrorist attack, mostly that wars are started because of military, not terrorism. If they do respond with voilence, it will not streach out into a war.

I second that too. This has been my opinion for all the time, although there might be some kind of war between some nation and USA. That's a possibility.

What happened was shocking, and it felt so unrealistic, so many have started to think totally unrealistcally.

End of the World and WW3 talks just piss me off, and they cause panic some sort of.
09-12-2001, 07:45 PM
Frihet

The sad thing is, I believe that this is the kind of thing that the US would do. Scorched Earth. And two wrongs certainly do not make a right.
~ Wolfboy

I just hope that the US won't jump the gun, as they are known to do, and that they won't blame the middle-east without any proof. And just think about Oklahoma.
09-12-2001, 08:57 PM
BlackCapedManX

!READ THIS!

!READ THIS!

Bin Ladin is a native of Saudi Arabia. He had a culture he grew up to accept as his own. He had a religion that he grew up to accept as his own. America came to Saudi Arabia and traded for oil. In return they forced thier culture, thier ideas and beliefs upon Bin Ladin and the rest of Saudi Arabia. America had business advertising and ideas that Saudi Arabian grew to accept. Bin Ladin is a wealthy person, he got and education and he knew this. He knew that Saudi Arabia was a tyranical government, and he knew that the Americans didn't care as long they got their oil. He also knew that America was forcing, brutally, its culture and religion and beleifs upon other countries. America is a festering disease, we have businesses that can't be content to saty in their bounds. When McDonalds runs out of people here in America to feed, it pushes outward to force it's way upon other people. Along with that are the American embassies and military bases all around the globe. This is very difficult for close-minded people to understand, because we have had an open culture that can accept just about everything. But if you're living and brought up on one set of rules ans suddenly and violently you have another thrust down upon you, and there's nothing else you can do, you push back. And since Bin Ladin can't force his culture upon ours, he pushes back with pain. If this was because of him, don't think of it as an act of anger or aggresive attack against America, think of it as a scared single person who is doing everything he knows how to keep the swelling black cloud that is America from consuming him. I know this doesn't justify what happened, but I really wish people would keep and open-mind about such things. It pains me to hear a these ignorant screams of anguish from people who don't have the slightest idea why. I just hope people read this.
09-12-2001, 08:57 PM
Peegee

Hope this isn't too "evil minded", but.....

The WTC apparently is supported mostly by its walls. All the walls were load bearing, and to destroy one would cause much problems.

However the airplanes couldn't have flown too close to the ground because of surrounding buildings, so they hit the WTC at about 80 (first) and 60th (2nd) floor. I didn't see the footage for the first crash, but the 2nd one smashed right through the middle, so all the floors above the 60th started to fall onto the 59th......domino effect.

I don't suggest they rebuild the buildings. Technology hasn't advanced enough to make structural modifications to prevent such a thing from happening again.
09-12-2001, 08:59 PM
Linus

Hey, whoever thinks it was a few psycho Americans, read this:

Today, an abandoned car in New York City was found with the Qu'ran(Think Arabic Bible...), several explosives, and long plastic weapons(Think resin knives...). At a Boston airport, a suitcase was found with another Qu'ran, a metal butcher-style knife, a manual on FLYING AIRPLANES, and A FUEL CALCULATOR...

Yep, saw it all on CNN today around 8 AM EST.
09-12-2001, 09:47 PM
Cz

If you ask me, any subsequent attacks will be of a totally different nature. No terrorist organization intelligent enough to conduct a plan like that is dumb enough to try the same thing twice. Expect the unexpected, because they'll try to find another way, believe me. The explosives etc. Linus mentioned were presumably back up, in case anything went wrong. But I heard a story of a man that jumped off the WTC, and landed safely on a shop awning cover. I don't know whether he survived the subsequent events. But I just think it is amazing that that happened.
09-12-2001, 09:57 PM
Funkmonkey Deluxe

I heard about those things in the car, too. One good thing is that they're already busting people for being associated and responsible for the attack. One of the terrorists that flew the second plane came to America legally a while back, he worked here, he lived here, he went to PILOT SCHOOL here, he claimed to be German even though his name was very Islamic sounding. The other terrorists were trained here too. They graduated from Pilot school in Florida, and each one paid off their certification and licensing and schooling for pilot school. This cost 25,000 dollars for each one of them, yet they paid it very easily. This of course would require a lot of money (Osama Bin-laden). One of the associates of the attack was caught during a raid of a Chicago hotel. When they looked up his profile, he was found to be one of the top followers of Bib-laden. Despite Bin-laden's denials to this, they are now 95% sure it's him who's responsible.

Also, if there is a war, you don't have to worry about being drafted. There's already an enormous amount of severely ticked-off Americans joining. Plus, we have massive support from major countries who have also suffered financially from the attack. So, I'm pretty sure everything's gonna be hunkey-dorey. (For those of you who don't know, hunkey-dorey is a good thing).
09-12-2001, 09:59 PM
Dr Unne

But if you're living and brought up on one set of rules ans suddenly and violently you have another thrust down upon you, and there's nothing else you can do, you push back. And since Bin Ladin can't force his culture upon ours, he pushes back with pain. If this was because of him, don't think of it as an act of anger or aggresive attack against America, think of it as a scared single person who is doing everything he knows how to keep the swelling black cloud that is America from consuming him. I know this doesn't justify what happened, but I really wish people would keep and open-mind about such things. It pains me to hear a these ignorant screams of anguish from people who don't have the slightest idea why. I just hope people read this. --BlackCapedManX

When it comes to killing innocent people, there is no "open mind". Murder is wrong. Period.

Of course this is all assuming he actually did it, which we don't know yet. But let's assume he did. You say that bin-Ladin attacked us because "America was hurting his culture". Tough crap. At least he's STILL ALIVE, and able to complain about his culture. 10,000+ people aren't. Nothing America has supposedly done to his supposedly wonderful culture justifies killing anyone. It doesn't justify it in the least.

I don't see how you can call the screams of anguish "ignorant". Let someone come to your house and blow up your family, and see if you don't scream too. And remember to keep an "open mind" if someone comes to your town and levels a couple buildings. After all, the killer might be "scared".

I'd like someone to explain exactly what horrible things America is doing to other countries to make them hate us so much. Could someone explain?
09-12-2001, 10:00 PM
SubmoDuck

I work at a video store, and last night at work there were two seperate instances of really bad jokes.
One person asked if we had Air Force One, then laughed, and another person asked if we had Under Seige. I nearly jumped over the counter and decked the trout out of them...instead...I went outside and had a cigarette.

My thoughts on this whole thing:
I'm deeply upset by it, and extremely angry. I feel I am showing extreme self control at the moment. This wasn't just an attack against our country, this was an attack on our rights as human beings, and if these sick smurfs act like inhuman monsters, then they shall be treated as such and eradicated by whatever mean neccesary.

-Submo Duck
09-12-2001, 10:03 PM
SubmoDuck

P.S. What did America supposedly do to have terrorists attack it????
09-12-2001, 10:09 PM
Funkmonkey Deluxe

One theory I heard on the reasons for this attack was that it wasn't against America but against our and many contries way of life, like stocks and gasoline. Since America is a very big financial partner with many countries, they attacked us, and lowered stock prices everywhere. i.e. overnight, Japan's stocks went down 17%. Also, because of this, gasoline prices have risen all over the country. i.e. $5.00 a gallon in michigan.

Personally, I don't know why they did it, much less how the whole stock market thing works.
09-12-2001, 10:21 PM
BlackCapedManX

Think of the targets, the world trade center and the pentagon. A symbol of global unification and military oppresion. I'd tend to think these people obviously want us to stop forcing ourselves upon other contries. I know you don't like metaphors but this one might be good for you:
I'd hate it if someone came to my niegborhood and killed my family. But I'd hate it much more if a man walked into my house and covered the walls with posters of beleifs and culturistic ideas that literally pry my eyelids open and force me to look at them. And then this man builds and outpost outside my house and watches my every move. Then every day this man comes and fills my house with boxes. Boxes full of stuff, stuff i don't want or need, but stuff he's going to give me anyway. This stuff cluteres my house. And my family accepts this because they can't think of anything else to do. So they accept the stuff and the religion and the ideas. But i won't have it. Instead, I go, and I shoot this man in the head. He stops bringing things we don't need and stops clutering our house and lets us going back to the way we were.
I'd be scared if I were part of a small country and was forced into religion and ideas and cultures I didn't want. America promotes "freedom" but forcing their "freedom" upon other cultures ruins their status quo. That can be worse than being free, that is oppresion, and being oppresed is worse than watching loved ones die in my oppinion. Maybe it's just me, i'm betting you'll say it probably is, but I don't want someone coming into my house and changing my life, do you?
09-12-2001, 10:27 PM
ew2x4

I'm from America, so I don't know what other countries are like.

Can someone from other countries say how you feel about it? Like have you come to the realization of it yet? If there was a big enough threat and we had to go to war, do people in other countries feel that they would go to war over something like this?

I know that if a country was to blame for this, I would go to war. I would give my life if it meant a safer world for my family and children of others.

But on the subject of what the USA have done, the USA has alot of bad things. But nowhere, absolutley nowhere the extremes, the effects or intentions this had.

One problem I have is that with all of the Middle East people celebrating, there is many Middle East people sad over this. People want the USA "satan" to go down. Us and Isreal and others.

I just wish I knew what would happen 5 moths from now.
09-12-2001, 11:10 PM
Dr. Disco

I hate to take part in this stupid metaphor, but...

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackCapedManX
Think of the targets, the world trade center and the pentagon. A symbol of global unification and military oppresion. I'd tend to think these people obviously want us to stop forcing ourselves upon other contries. I know you don't like metaphors but this one might be good for you:
I'd hate it if someone came to my niegborhood and killed my family. But I'd hate it much more if a man walked into my house and covered the walls with posters of beleifs and culturistic ideas that literally pry my eyelids open and force me to look at them. And then this man builds and outpost outside my house and watches my every move. Then every day this man comes and fills my house with boxes. Boxes full of stuff, stuff i don't want or need, but stuff he's going to give me anyway. This stuff cluteres my house. And my family accepts this because they can't think of anything else to do. So they accept the stuff and the religion and the ideas. But i won't have it. Instead, I go, and I shoot this man in the head. He stops bringing things we don't need and stops clutering our house and lets us going back to the way we were.
I'd be scared if I were part of a small country and was forced into religion and ideas and cultures I didn't want. America promotes "freedom" but forcing their "freedom" upon other cultures ruins their status quo. That can be worse than being free, that is oppresion, and being oppresed is worse than watching loved ones die in my oppinion. Maybe it's just me, i'm betting you'll say it probably is, but I don't want someone coming into my house and changing my life, do you?

Don't assume I'm right about this, but I bet Bin-laden is smarter than you. "Shooting him in the head", as you say, will bring his powerful, powerful friends there to mess you up.
Bin-laden, if he did it, KNEW this would get him screwed. And, I didn't "plaster his walls with my posters", the government did. He KNEW those were innocent civilians. So, basically, if you don't know what you're talking about, stop talking.
09-12-2001, 11:45 PM
BlackCapedManX

Can't you people see that their are at least two sides to this, and that none of them are right? We gave isreal to the jews from the palistinians, we gave weapons to the isrealians. The isrealians are warring with palistine. Palistinians are throwing rocks and using kamakazie bombers to attack the isrealians. Isrealians are hitting back with tanks. So obviously the palistians are joyous about the "attack on america." You people are blindly defending the cause of the americans to strike back at who ever did this, even if it is only in having them aprehended with as little violence as possible.

Our friend Doctor Unne claims that all killing is wrong. Take that outlook and America would still be under british rule. We'd not have won a single war and someone who realized that strength is power would be in charge. Who ever did this did so TO MAKE A POINT and we're CLEARLY not seeing it. Maybe destroying the WTC was not the best way of doing it, but would the U.S.A. have listened if a point had been made any other way? I doubt that. U.S.A. rules with power and only listens when someone else shows power back. We obviously don't know what the point trying to made is yet, but I'm thinking we will soon, and we should LISTEN to it, instead of striking back this time. We should consider it instead of thinking that our way is right and theirs is wrong.

And If you don't think you "plastered thier walls," if you think you can blame it on the government, remember, who does the government represent? YOU! DUH!! How can you sit back and say "oh, i'm not responisble, the government is." Or "what can i do," I don't know, you're only a CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY! So if you're not going to do something about it, someone who doesn't have influence the way we do will. And they are going to do it in a way that works for them. And if you say, "i didn't know about it" thses people are intending to reduce your ignorance on the situation. I can accept the anger that people who have lost loved ones feel right now, but I am SEETHING WITH ANGER at everyone else who ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to look at this from another view than their own! Pleeeeease excuse my intrudence on your limited vision on the situation but you probably know less than I do about what these people feel. I've felt it myself, I've felt oppresion, i've felt trapped and i've felt the need to strike back against those who wish to view me only through their eyes. So I feel I can sympathize with anyone else who has felt oppresed, in any way, shape, or form.
09-12-2001, 11:50 PM
Garland

It's amazing how some can try and justify this attack. America, a festering disease? Pushing our culture violently? McDonalds? The reason our culture sticks is that people like it. When a McDonalds moves in, it's successful because people like the food, and convenience. No force will make you eat a Big Mac if you don't want to. They can't compete with what we offer? That's not our fault. Our companies spread around the world offering them something new. If they don't want to see our culture, make something better. Our movies are too pervasive, well they're successful because they're good. Don't like it, do better. We're not pervasive or pushy, we're successful. If people don't like something they won't use it. We plaster their walls with stuff they don't want? Most of them like it, especially the youth.
So one discontent rich guy (Bin Laden) wants to keep things the way they were, that makes it ok. If Bin Laden had came to America and promoted Islamic culture, we'd have welcomed it. Same with any culture. They all have something good to offer. Last I knew, being close minded was a BAD thing, not a justification to commit atrocities. There's nothing to understand about the motives. There's no need to discuss moral issues with a terrorist. If you dedicate your life to bombing innocent people (what a goal...), you've given up any claim to a "higher moral standing" and being considered human. Americans, and the rest of the civilized world are above sympathizing with the likes of whoever did this (terrorists that is). No, there's no justifying this.
09-13-2001, 12:02 AM
Asorie

I'm not responsible. I have no say in my free government. Those men do not represent me. So be careful where you point the finger, my friend.

I can understand what you are saying, though I disagree. I will allow, however, that America is far too involved in foreign conflicts. I have believed that for a long time.

I just got to listen to mom go on a tangent about how Afghanistani life is worth less than American life, and how if she could drop a bomb on the crowds of children in the streets of Palestine, she would. This is a popular opinion right now. Yet, she gets worked up about the life lost at the WTC? It's hypocrisy like this that makes me ill. I can't stand it.

Incidentally, in light of complaints about this thread's being too long, I'm closing it and starting a new one. Thank you.
09-13-2001, 12:13 AM
Britt

DUH!! How can you sit back and say "oh, i'm not responisble, the government is." Or "what can i do," I don't know, you're only a CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY! So if you're not going to do something about it, someone who doesn't have influence the way we do will. And they are going to do it in a way that works for them. And if you say, "i didn't know about it" thses people are intending to reduce your ignorance on the situation. I can accept the anger that people who have lost loved ones feel right now, but I am SEETHING WITH ANGER at everyone else who ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to look at this from another view than their own! Pleeeeease excuse my intrudence on your limited vision on the situation but you probably know less than I do about what these people feel. I've felt it myself, I've felt oppresion, i've felt trapped and i've felt the need to strike back against those who wish to view me only through their eyes.

Please, about all else, don't be insulting. To insult another's intelligence or comprehension is unecessary. I see your point, as well, but do you see ours? At any rate, please calm down. We really, really don't need any huge arguments, right now.

This thread is now closed- a new one has been created.

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