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im probably going to be extradited and flamed for this, but here goes
i feel very little sympathy for the amercians right now, sure it is a tragedy but there have been so many and so much worse tragedys around the world
the media says that this is the worst act of terrorism in the world, how quickly do we forget about the past, i seem to recall a nation killing 200 000 innocent civillians in world war 2, which is the worst tragedy in the world to this date
Not that I'm yelloing but 6 millon innocent jews were slaughtered in World War 2 not to metion Veitnam (150,000 Us soilders) and Prez Bush just said this was an act of war and said we will bring justice to or enmeys and he Said: there are two groups now those that are with us and those that are againist us! (CHINA? CUBA?)
Umm, I think that's a misquote:This is the worse act of terrorism on US soil, not the world.Quote:
Originally posted by Meteor of War
im probably going to be extradited and flamed for this, but here goes
i feel very little sympathy for the amercians right now, sure it is a tragedy but there have been so many and so much worse tragedys around the world
the media says that this is the worst act of terrorism in the world, how quickly do we forget about the past, i seem to recall a nation killing 200 000 innocent civillians in world war 2, which is the worst tragedy in the world to this date
Also, Cuba is with us. China...hmm....
China is one of the Big Five on the UN Security Council (one of the five permanent members); they support us.
Cuba has expressed sympathy for the US.
Yeah; I have noticed a strong anti-war sentiment here. Some don't realize that you can't reason with bin Lauden. If the entire Islamic world went to him and told him that he was wrong and that Allah did not sanction his actions nor his "Jyhad," he would label them as apostates and rally his group in closer. Afghanistan is under control of the Talabied; a group of extreme fundamentalist warlords who came to power in 1996. This group is so extreme that they stone women who do not wear the veils over their faces. Women are mere property. Only those who are members of the Talabied regime have food, shelter, and water that is clean. The people of Afghanistan have neither the strength (weapons or physical) to overthrow this regime. The Talabied isn't going to hand over bin Lauden; he's got them under his thumb. If we go in to get him; they go to war against us.
So; what do we do? Shrug off the attacks upon us and go on?
You can't reason with a fanatic. You will only waste your breath and time.
Aside from that; this war is going to be fought on a very psychological front. We're not just fighting an army or trying to capture a city; we're fighting an idea; a belief. Only time or total demoralization of the idea will bring victory.
A lot of people can't see that. They can't process just how deep this goes. *shrugs*
Basically; if you think you're going to say something that will offend someone who has the authority to ban you; keep your thoughts to yourself. Don't put it on the fora.
Phoenix
One thing to say: Don't piss off Pakistan or any country with nukes.
Prez Bush said this was a war agianist all terrorists (AKA Sadam Hassem or what I like to call him So Damn Insane)pakenstan does NOT have nuclear capiblities why else who they use planes and not just bomb the Shisnit out of us however So damn insane does have nuclear capiablity so does south veitnam, Iraq, iran, china, cuba, ect ect (anyone who's not an ally) besides the Us and Russia have their finger on the Trigger of 40000 Cold war nucs all over the world and a the first sign of war forgive my bluntness:BOOM!he he he
(blow them back to the stone age baby)
well their nukes really arent a threat to us... they know they'd only dent us then pay big time by us sinking their whole damm country
they know they'd only dent us then pay big time by us sinking their whole damm country
I'm sorry, but that's the most naive thing I've heard in a very, very long time. If someone shot a nuke, we'd shoot nukes back. Eventually both countries would be craters. A nuclear weapon does not "just make a dent," on any terms. I don't suppose I have to remind anyone about nuclear winter, either.
NUCLEAR WINTER: The thing that frightens me most
Nuclear weapons are the most powerful weapons in the universe and yet humans weild them like a kid who found his dad's gun.
Heh, nuclear winter ^.~ There was a really interesting quote from Einstein somewhere or other... it went something like, ""I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought with, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Very true, I think ^.^ Einstein has a lotta good quotes. *off topic*
ACTUALLY, if I'm thinking correctly, the only time nuclear weapons have been used in a war was Hiroshima. Then, after seeing the power, everyone pretty much thought "Holy trout. Let's not do that ever, ever again."Quote:
Originally posted by Cyan Highwind
NUCLEAR WINTER: The thing that frightens me most
Nuclear weapons are the most powerful weapons in the universe and yet humans weild them like a kid who found his dad's gun.
thats what they called it on cnnQuote:
Umm, I think that's a misquote:This is the worse act of terrorism on US soil, not the world.
The Mosque of Omar was built in the late 600s by, you guessed it, Omar, one of the Orthodox caliphs of the Muslim Empire. That's barely 2,000 years, so it couldn't be several thousand years younger. Actually, let me look up the time period of Solomon, who had the Temple built...Quote:
Originally posted by Morticia
I don't think it's too terribly horrid to evict Muslims from a site that belongs to a religion several thousand years older than their own.
Edit: Solomon's Temple: C.960 BC.
Mosque of Omar: C.690 AD.
1500 year difference.
Yes, I know, that was pointless, but I'm a history fanatic.
I never thought I'd be saying this, but President Bush may have delivered one of the finer speeches in American History. I dare not say the finest (I reserve that for Jonathan Edwards's "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" :D :D) but, a very nice job done by Mr. Bush.
*successfully inserts something GOOD in this thread*
I agree with you prince of darkness it was somewhere in between "This day of infimy December 7 1945" and "define sexaul relations"
Neel, that trully was one of the better speechs I've ever heard as well. I especially like the part that I used in my sig:
"It is my hope that in the months and years ahead, life will return almost to normal. We'll go back to our lives and routines, and that is good. Even grief recedes with time and grace. But our resolve must not pass. Each of us will remember what happened that day, and to whom it happened. We'll remember the moment the news came -- where we were and what we were doing. Some will remember an image of a fire, or a story of rescue. Some will carry memories of a face and a voice gone forever." George W. Bush
After that he shows a policemen's badge that was found and he said that, that will always be his reminder of all the lives lost and those lost trying to save others.
I think the thing that really got me thinking while watching Bush's speech was that you could actually see the "quiet, unyielding anger" in his face. Bush, the person - not Bush the president or Bush the politician - was pissed off. He's not gonna let Bin Laden go. And I respect him for that. The speech was good, very good, very inspiring.
I think what I like best about how Bush has acted throught this whole ordeal: he has always remained human. We've seen him with red, wet eyes in the White House. We've seen the anger in his latest speech (and others). To me, that maked him more real, more accesable. To me, he is a person first and a president later, unlike certain other Prez's of late (Clinton *cough* Clinton). And I respect that. Good job Bush, I'm glad I voted for ya!
You miss the point, Phoenix. The idea that needs to be destroyed is not fundamental Islam. It's terrorism. I think that there needs to be a distinction made, and in most cases, there is not being.Quote:
Originally posted by Morticia
A lot of people can't see that. They can't process just how deep this goes. *shrugs*
Basically; if you think you're going to say something that will offend someone who has the authority to ban you; keep your thoughts to yourself. Don't put it on the fora.
Phoenix
Also, no, I don't support a war. That doesn't mean that I don't understand how deep this goes. It doesn't mean that I can't comprehend the horror or the affects it has on the world. It means I've thought things through and I still happen to have a different opinion than yours.
I'm sick and tired of being talked down to by people who want war simply because I don't support it. I'm tired of being told that pacifism is immature. You know what? You go kill people. Fine. But the weight of that will rest on your shoulders, and never mine. Because I don't agree with it, and if we aren't defending my right to not support a war, what are we fighting to defend, if freedom itself is so threatened?
And incidentally, Phoenix, no one ever threatened to ban you. Any other member on the board would have gotten the same warning for posting the statements you did. So let it rest, okay? I am.
I know theres been a lot of talk about "war".. but I think it'd be helpful if everyone read this "Is War Really the Right Word?", to try and put things in perspective.
Sorry if this question has already been asked/answered, but I haven't read all the posts here cuz there are like a billion of them... anyway, at first, I didn't think we were gonna go into war, but now I'm a bit more scared cuz my friend told me the US was mobilizing troops and stuff. Anyway, I'm not really up to date on the news cuz I don't watch that much of it... but who know how close we really are to a war? And if so, how big will it be? Will people be drafted and stuff? I'm just wondering cuz I'm really don't wanna go into a war and stuff. Me scared. Also, I was wondering if your religion prohibits you from killing, do you need to go to war if drafted?
to batchao: if youre dafted you goto war or you goto jail
Sorry for maybe going a little off topic but i have to say something on behlaf of Canada....
Here in Canada we feel your sorrow and this is a tough time for all of us. We giuded you and helped when in need and right now we are giving blood. Sometimes people think Canada and U.S.A are worst enemies.... But in the real world we are best friends AND WE WILL HELP U.S.A THROUGH THICK AND THIN AND YOU SUPPORT US SO WE SUPPORT YOU. AND TOGETHER WE WILL WIN THE WAR AGAINST TERRORISM!! That is all:choc: :)
That's quite nice of you, jly2klee. I feel the love. I didn't know people thought USA and Canada where worst enemies...
Oh yea, and my friend told me that if you're the only son, your parents can waiver a draft into a war. Does anyone know if that's true?
As far as I know theres no waiver but, all my info comes from my dad and grandpa (grandpa veitnam, korea, dad, desert storm) I like canadans I've be to toronto and they seemed like very nice people, however I HATE the metric system why: because i'm an idoit
OK.
To all of you who want to nuke/bomb a country/state: Sorry? That will accomplish? Well, I guess if it makes you happy to see a big boom, then sure. Just wipe out thousands. It's not like it's a big deal right? [Sarcasm intended]
To all of you who want to see Bin Laden dead:
1. WE DON'T KNOW WHO DID THE WTC.
2. I see. Capital punishment. Brilliant idea. Let's make everyone happy by killing someone who killed 500+ people (Kenya) Too bad it won't bring the dead back. Too bad it will just make him some sort of religous prophet who fought. Too bad it won't really stop terrorism. Too bad eh?
To all of you who want to see Bin Laden tortured: You know, I'm just going to ignore that. I really don't think, this supposedly "civilised" society is even capable of anything resembling torture...oh wait; we aren't "civilised".
No offense, but I would just like to see the guy rot in jail with NO outside communication. I know it would be almost impossible to know where he is let alone catch him, but that is what I would like and I think the people who died would have.
Could I just add: Terrorism will not end.
Good Point. The world is pissed and we have to blame somebody so we point the finger at the one who comitted the last terorist action (AKA UN embassy bombing in africa).And you right in a civilised society there should be no toture but we aren't civilized why else would we have racial prejudice, war, famine, ect., ect.
"You think something minor like the End Of The World will finish me off?"
I think FDR's Pearl Harbor address was much much better, like I said.
"December 7th, 1941: A date which will live in infamy". Just sounds so powerful!
He wrote it himself too.
Okay :) This thread is splitting off into a million directions and getting too long anyway, so I'm going to start a couple of new ones.