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You have no idea what the New Zealand people want.
:shifty:
EDIT: For what it's worth, I just think that it would be impossible to write a good story with solid answers for the entirity of Lost without having at least one more season, if not two. I think it was originally scripted for seven seasons but they shortened it to six as ratings dwindled, so that might explain a bit of the "rush jobs".
I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying about reality. I'm not saying that all the elements of Lost have to actually exist in our world. But can it possibly exist? Can you suspend your disbelief to the point where you can accept it as part of the universe in which the show exists and does it make sense within the show itself?
IE: Legend of the Seeker can't suddenly introduce cell phones and computers. Because it wouldn't make sense within the confines of the show. Buffy the Vampire Slayer established the existence of supernatural creatures, vampires, witches, etc, from the beginning. But can they suddenly introduce talking animals without people being all "Wtf?"
Iron Man is a great example of combining fictional elements to our reality and making it work. The original Matrix is another good example. The first few seasons of Stargate SG-1 as well.
Obviously a man flying around in a suit of armor isn't something that ACTUALLY exists in our world. Duh. That's not what I'm saying. But can it? Yes. Is it believable? Yes. Do the modern contemporary elements of the films (the audi sportscars, the burger kings, the military elements, etc) mesh well with the science fiction elements of the Iron Man suit? Yes it does. If the next Iron Man film threw in vampires, would it work? NO!
The Matrix was all sorts of mind-trippy from the start, but at least within the confines of the film, it made sense. Matrix 2 & 3 did NOT make sense.
A ancient intergalactic transportation system doesn't exist in our reality (or does it?) but the show made it seem realistic enough. They based the operations out of Cheyenne Mountain, an actual Air Force military base. They had an archeologist and an scientist on board. And MacGyver. The show made it clear from the beginning. Aliens exist. So all the crazy stuff that happens within the show regarding Aliens made sense. But then they started messing with higher planes of existence and people dying and coming back to life and being reincarnated and all sorts of mumbo jumbo. And the show started sucking ass.
Lost from the first few seasons is SO different from what it is now. The whole tone of the show has changed. Yes, there were dead people from the start. But where they hallucinations? Was the island purgatory? Some sort of scientific testing ground? People were willing to believe in a supernatural explanation. But not vague magical ones.
I read this article about Lost in Entertainment Weekly where they talked about science vs. faith and how Jack ultimately went the "spiritual" route. That was repeated as their answer and theme now. Spirituality, for the win, blah.
I see this as more-or-less the age old cop out concept of "God did it." I know that's not exactly what they're saying, but it's where I feel we are nonetheless. Now they can do whatever they want, whereas before they at least created the illusion of rules (to me). That's what's bothering me, not the supernatural elements.
A Blade/Iron Man crossover would be pretty awesome though. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
I really didnt like that episode, but mainly because most of the acting was quite awful, the music was very different and not very good and the script dialogue was weird.
As for the explanations, never expected ANYTHING realistic at all, or even 'it-may-be-possible' sci-fi. I just hope theres more to it than what we were shown in this episode, which I am kind of doubting at this point (only 2 eps left!).
It was always going to get kind of gooey at the end, seeing as how Lost is best at the mysteries, whereas the explanations can just feel out of place.
I'll probably still enjoy it however, i'm not gonna lose any sleep over it...
I do get your point regarding all of that, and pretty much agree with it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
This is where I disagree, though. I think if they were hallucinations then that would have been a copout for me. I prefer the insane stuff because for me, that's what Lost is all about.Quote:
Lost from the first few seasons is SO different from what it is now. The whole tone of the show has changed. Yes, there were dead people from the start. But where they hallucinations?
I think if you can wonder if the island is Purgatory or the Garden of Eden or anything vaguely biblical then the light should not come across as a vague magical explanation. Light is a rather important part of biblical stories, and it should be noted that Lucifer means something like Bearer of Light, and if MIB's name is Lucifer that would make even more sense if he "took the light" (which it seems he did, given his adopted mother went on about not letting anyone "take the light" or something). So for me, it's not that insane. I've also considered the possibility of it being the Garden of Eden in the past, and if you look at the story of Adam and Eve then you end up with them eating an apple because a snake told them to.Quote:
Was the island purgatory? Some sort of scientific testing ground? People were willing to believe in a supernatural explanation. But not vague magical ones.
For me, I like the idea of supernatural explanations and of miracles being experienced on the island. I like that sometimes it's just the island, not the science, that explains things. Rose, for example, cured of her illness. Rose and Bernard 'knowing' where each other are, somehow. People coming back to life, surviving things that should in no way be survivable - all of these are miracles, things which will never have any kind of rational explanation. With this in mind, for me Lost is about people from our world (where miracles/supernatural explanations are dismissed) being taken to a world where miracles and the supernatural are the norm. So with that in mind, a cave with a light isn't a copout, it's just the norm. The early series probably allowed for more scepticism to any supernatural or miracle explanations because they wanted to keep the audience guessing, but pretty much everything from day one shows, in retrospect, that nothing would ever have been explained by science. It's not a change of tact in the storyline, it's just that some people are possibly disappointed at just how much it had nothing to do with science.
I guess there's actually a little similarity in factions of viewers and factions of characters... The Dharma Initiative are possibly the people who are "people of science" much like those who have been disappointed in Lost as a TV series - they are the ones who were 'removed', the ones who did not want miracles but instead wanted to investigate in a scientific way. Then you have the Others - the people of faith - like myself, who always viewed the island as something more powerful than science could ever explain.
Of course, there are still two episodes (I count 17/18 as a single episode) to go, so who knows how things will turn out. Probably disappointing, but I can't remember the last time I wasn't disappointed when a TV series I loved and followed ended.
But you just illustrated part of the problem. You can't take a show that focused so heavily on the Sci-Fi aspects and then switch completely over to the other side of magic oh la la, and then blame that kind of disjointed storytelling as appealing to as wide an audience as possible. It would be one thing if the writers had skillfully weaved those two elements together, but they haven't. Think about the time travel storyline and think about the episodes from this past season. It's like they're practically from two different shows.
The root of the problem is that the purpose of the show seemed to change every season. It's like someone kept moving the goal posts randomly and arbitrarily. That's the root of the problem. The reason why storylines were dropped and forgotten, why the tone of the show kept jumping around, why answers were never given to the mysteries. But the problem is made worse simply by bad writing. You can get away with a lot of stuff, as long as you make it interesting. I agree with someone who posted up thread about Lost being great with cliffhangers and mysteries but awful about resolving things or answering questions. It's like they can't tie things together if their life depended on it. The Adam & Eve thing is a great example. Because Jack explicitly said that the bodies looked to have been there for 40-50 years. And now the writers have decided to hastily wrap up that little mystery by claiming it's Crazy Mother & MIB, both of whom died like 2000 years ago. Bad bad writing.
You like the supernatural explanations? WHAT supernatural explanations? A cave of light isn't an explanation! The reason why MIB & Jacob can't kill each other being because their mother made it that way. That's not an explanation. That's just bad writing!
Miracles have to have some sort of root. They can't simply just be random unexplained things. For a lot of people, it's divine intervention. That's how it happened on Battlestar Galactica. But it has to be rooted in something. We haven't found out exactly what the island is yet, but it has to be something that explains how those "miracles" might have been possible. God, angels, aliens, crazy alternate reality where normal rules don't apply, it has to be something. But all those things would result in people being pissed cause deux ex machinas are still considered bad writing.
My absolute favorite thing about Lost were the character interactions. Talk about tone changes, in the beginning it had less to do with god or science, and more to do with just the characters in an extraordinary situation. Those first few seasons when the flashbacks slowly revealed how everyone was connected, their back stories, how they interacted on the island to survive, set up camp, find water, etc. That stuff was brilliant. Remember the fight between Michael & Jin over the watch? The fight itself was awesome, but I also loved how they brought to the foreground those racial tensions. Really great stuff. Great writing. And now they've killed most of the characters or completely ruined the characters (a la Sayid). Pfft.
The smoke monster didn't appear visually until the very final episode of Season 1, before that it was just loud noises and trees falling, it could've been anything. Seeing dead people can in a stretch be explained as post traumatic stress, it's been done before at least. Season 1 was all about revealing backstories, getting to know the people, surviving on the island and exploring. The realistic to supernatural ratio must've been at least somewhere around 90% to 10% with realistic being the majority. Of course I hoped for a realistic ending! The writers even assured us there would be one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Many shows and films pretend to have various supernatural themes to cover up the mystery until the end, like Hide & Seek with Robert De Niro. During the whole season 1, I figured the little supernatural stuff that happened were red herrings. I suppose I lost hope there'd be a realistic ending when the supernatural stuff escalated in Season 2.
I, however, agree that anyone who still hopes for a realistic ending is being silly. :p That ship has sailed.
I'll agree on this much - they do seem like two completely different shows. But then, I hate time travel. I really do. Whenever a show tries to do it in any kind of realistic way I feel that they ruin everything. I mean, I gave Lost credit for dealing with it better than Heroes but I still think it was a mistake. I just think that the only way to deal with time travel in a TV series is to do it extremely tongue-in-cheek, a la Doctor Who and Back to the Future. You just can't treat this kind of thing seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
I don't really feel there were heavy sci-fi aspects, and if there were, I think that's predominantly due to either a) time travel omg or b) the Dharma Initiative trying to make sense out of the supernatural/miraculous things when really, science simply doesn't explain such things.
That may have been me. xD Yes, it's totally true. They suck at it. But all shows suck at it. Any show that relies on mystery generally comes up with disappointment. It's like the ending of a lot of Final Fantasy games - all the excitement you build up generally means the ending just doesn't meet your built up hype.Quote:
I agree with someone who posted up thread about Lost being great with cliffhangers and mysteries but awful about resolving things or answering questions.
To be fair, that much could possibly be explained by various things, such as people not dying "quickly" on the island, the people being special (I mean, what the hell would MIB's skeleton be doing there? Did he actually die?).Quote:
It's like they can't tie things together if their life depended on it. The Adam & Eve thing is a great example. Because Jack explicitly said that the bodies looked to have been there for 40-50 years. And now the writers have decided to hastily wrap up that little mystery by claiming it's Crazy Mother & MIB, both of whom died like 2000 years ago. Bad bad writing.
I don't think they can't kill each other because their mother made it that way so much as they can't kill each other for... some reason that their mother was aware of. Somehow. Possibly from drinking that drink and being the protector or something. Dunno...Quote:
You like the supernatural explanations? WHAT supernatural explanations? A cave of light isn't an explanation! The reason why MIB & Jacob can't kill each other being because their mother made it that way. That's not an explanation. That's just bad writing!
This I agree with. Hopefully that much will be explained!Quote:
Miracles have to have some sort of root. They can't simply just be random unexplained things. For a lot of people, it's divine intervention. That's how it happened on Battlestar Galactica. But it has to be rooted in something. We haven't found out exactly what the island is yet, but it has to be something that explains how those "miracles" might have been possible. God, angels, aliens, crazy alternate reality where normal rules don't apply, it has to be something. But all those things would result in people being pissed cause deux ex machinas are still considered bad writing.
I agree with the general killing off of characters being pretty crap. Personally, I was most gutted (prior to the latest episode) at Eko dying. I felt he had more to offer. But oh well. =|Quote:
My absolute favorite thing about Lost were the character interactions. Talk about tone changes, in the beginning it had less to do with god or science, and more to do with just the characters in an extraordinary situation. Those first few seasons when the flashbacks slowly revealed how everyone was connected, their back stories, how they interacted on the island to survive, set up camp, find water, etc. That stuff was brilliant. Remember the fight between Michael & Jin over the watch? The fight itself was awesome, but I also loved how they brought to the foreground those racial tensions. Really great stuff. Great writing. And now they've killed most of the characters or completely ruined the characters (a la Sayid). Pfft.
As for the early seasons - that much was probably written out by the creator of Lost. JJ Abrams is actually the one who "only would get involved if supernatural themes were put into the storyline", so you can blame that end of things on him, I guess.
Actually, he was supposed to have more to offer!Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostpedia
Read a synopsis of next week's episode, and for those of you worried that we aren't going to get a proper explanation of the light, the rules, etc: (SPOILER)we don't.
Totally with Doc Jensen | Lost Season 6
Awesome ass interview (video) with the actors of Jacob and MiB. Clip 5 is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.
lol wut@alpert.
I guess he rode the midnight smoke going anywhere.
Ben you utterly masterful dick. And I thought they'd forgotten about poor Desmond in the well.
So how long is the finale next week?