Axel = Reno?

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

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Originally Posted by Dynast-Kid

Kovu isn't actually Scar's son.

Axel = Axel

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He's adopted, close enough.

Axel can't equal Axel because Nobodies don't exist. Therefore, Axel may only be equal to "Axel == __." And by this inconvertable truth that I have proven, that the Organization is actually the Party. They will turn you into shells of your former selves, and fill you with them. Thought Police!

But if you really want to know who is the true culprit of OXIII identity games, that would be Saïx. If you remove the X, he becomes IAS, which is an acronym for "Increased Attack Speed." Therefore, Saïx's original identity was a concept of computer gaming in order to describe the possible amount of damage done by a normal attack when it is altered positively by a weapon, item, or other equipment! It's so simple, no?

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How the hell did you get so smart...? :confused:

It's called "school." Try listening to a teacher.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

It's called "school." Try listening to a teacher.

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Hehehe, what if you get about 14 of 25 lessons teached by subs.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

It's called "school." Try listening to a teacher.

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Your school teaches you the concepts behind Organization XIII? I want to go to your school!

No, that would make me the school's professor.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

It's called "school." Try listening to a teacher.

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Lol, you really do hate me. :cry:

Seriously, I respect kids who know their literature.

LIEK M3333?!?!?!!??!

I have my own theory about the relationship between Axel and Reno or even if there is a relationship at all. Taking the latter point into account; Tetsuya Nomura may have just designed Axel in reminiscence of Reno because he liked Reno in particular out of his FF creations, or maybe Square wanted to add a "Turks" feel to Organization XIII. It's hard to reach a conclusion if we don't know the designer's intentions.

Since "Axel" is an anagram of the original's name with an X, I have surmised that the original person is not Reno. However as stated in the ansem reports: the nobodies have only the slightest variations in their appearance from the originals (this also seems to be true for their heartless forms when comparing Xehanort's heartless (Ansem from the first Kingdom Hearts) with Xehanort and Xemnas). I have therefore concluded that Reno is the heartless that was created from the original body that also belongs to the nobody named Axel. Though one does have to keep in mind the possibility that Axel created an entirely different name for his nobody self (again just like Xehanort and Xemnas), however there is no evidence to support either of these theories.

If I was to incorporate the "Reno is a heartless" theory into the story, it would be this: The latest threat to the Kingdom Hearts universe is the Shin-Ra company. They are an organization of Heartless who want to use the energy of the Hearts of the worlds for whatever reason (It was money in FF7 but that sort of thing seems unimortant in KH), maybe to create an army of powerful heartless SOLDIERs. Whatever it is we learned in KH1 that the heartless are drawn to hearts and the largest heart is the heart of a world. Anyway this is somewhat the same idea as in FF7 when the Shin-Ra used the life energy of the planet to provide energy for the human lifestyle, which would eventually kill the planet. This plot could also be used in KH, replacing the lifestream with the heart of a world. When the Shin-Ra suck up all that energy, the world will disappear. The point I'm trying to make here is that a story where Reno IS a heartless could fit very neatly into Kingdom Hearts.

I'm wondering if Square are already planning this sort of storyline. Please discuss my theory...

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Originally Posted by Sword

I have my own theory about the relationship between Axel and Reno or even if there is a relationship at all. Taking the latter point into account; Tetsuya Nomura may have just designed Axel in reminiscence of Reno because he liked Reno in particular out of his FF creations, or maybe Square wanted to add a "Turks" feel to Organization XIII. It's hard to reach a conclusion if we don't know the designer's intentions.

Since "Axel" is an anagram of the original's name with an X, I have surmised that the original person is not Reno. However as stated in the ansem reports: the nobodies have only the slightest variations in their appearance from the originals (this also seems to be true for their heartless forms when comparing Xehanort's heartless (Ansem from the first Kingdom Hearts) with Xehanort and Xemnas). I have therefore concluded that Reno is the heartless that was created from the original body that also belongs to the nobody named Axel. Though one does have to keep in mind the possibility that Axel created an entirely different name for his nobody self (again just like Xehanort and Xemnas), however there is no evidence to support either of these theories.

If I was to incorporate the "Reno is a heartless" theory into the story, it would be this: The latest threat to the Kingdom Hearts universe is the Shin-Ra company. They are an organization of Heartless who want to use the energy of the Hearts of the worlds for whatever reason (It was money in FF7 but that sort of thing seems unimortant in KH), maybe to create an army of powerful heartless SOLDIERs. Whatever it is we learned in KH1 that the heartless are drawn to hearts and the largest heart is the heart of a world. Anyway this is somewhat the same idea as in FF7 when the Shin-Ra used the life energy of the planet to provide energy for the human lifestyle, which would eventually kill the planet. This plot could also be used in KH, replacing the lifestream with the heart of a world. When the Shin-Ra suck up all that energy, the world will disappear. The point I'm trying to make here is that a story where Reno IS a heartless could fit very neatly into Kingdom Hearts.

I'm wondering if Square are already planning this sort of storyline. Please discuss my theory...

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Nice theory, but too bad all of the Organization members are dead and their origins don't really matter.

I found sword's theory somewhat surmountable. I just don't think that it was ever inteded for any base character in Disney or Squeenix to start off as a heartless or Nobody. These are all manifestations unique to kingdom hearts.

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Originally Posted by Sword

I have therefore concluded that Reno is the heartless that was created from the original body that also belongs to the nobody named Axel.

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Impossible. Sora and Xehanort are the only two people who have ever managed to remain in control after transforming into a heartless instead of becoming a mindless creature craving hearts. This is confirmed in the game.

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Though one does have to keep in mind the possibility that Axel created an entirely different name for his nobody self (again just like Xehanort and Xemnas), however there is no evidence to support either of these theories.

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Xehanort's name change to Xemnas was a result of changing his name before he cast aside his body and created a heartless and nobody. Xehanort assumed the name Ansem and began impersonating his master. This is made very clear and is very obvious. Xemnas is merely an anagram of Ansem plus an x.

I'm not even going to touch the rest of your "theory."

Edit: Just in case someone decides to nitpick, I'm going to clarify the first point. Sora and Xehanort are the only known examples of the whole heartless-with-a-conscious-mind thing, however you want to describe it. While it is possible that others have done the same thing, I find it highly improbable (so much so that I'm still willing to use the word impossible) that Axel's heartless would be a similar example. As nobodies remember their lives before their seperation from their heart, it's very likely that they all know a great deal about themselves. This would mean that the organization probably knows a lot about the circumstances under which each member was seperated from his or her heart. If Reno was Axel's heartless, the Organization would not have so carelessly overlooked a third example (as they were the ones who confirmed that only Sora and Xehanort have ever achieved it).

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

Impossible. Sora and Xehanort are the only two people who have ever managed to remain in control after transforming into a heartless instead of becoming a mindless creature craving hearts. This is confirmed in the game.

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It's not impossible. They are the only KNOWN examples.

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Xehanort's name change to Xemnas was a result of changing his name before he cast aside his body and created a heartless and nobody. Xehanort assumed the name Ansem and began impersonating his master. This is made very clear and is very obvious. Xemnas is merely an anagram of Ansem plus an x.

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I know about the anagram thing. What does that have to do with it? It's still a different name. What I was saying is that Axel may not be an anagram with and X of his original name. He IS an oddball within the group afterall.

Anyway I admitted myself that there is nothing to support the theory. That's why it is called a THEORY :twak:

You can't blame me for having a go.

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Originally Posted by Sword

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

Impossible. Sora and Xehanort are the only two people who have ever managed to remain in control after transforming into a heartless instead of becoming a mindless creature craving hearts. This is confirmed in the game.

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It's not impossible. They are the only KNOWN examples.

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If they are the only known examples, then by default, they are the ONLY examples. You can't just go around in stick in random settings into a plot that is not yours, such as "ohh, I shall go and Deus Ex Machina the ending to KHII. The explanation is that Riku and Sora blah blah blah, all is saved. BUT WAIT! THERE'S A FOURTEENTH MEMBER OF OXIII!? LOLOLOLOLOL WE ARE SCREWED!" It's not yours to deal with as you wish, and you simply have to wait until more is revealed to you.

I very much doubt that KHIII (or the next section in the KH franchise) will focus on the Nobodies.

As to your second point, wtf are you on about? Axel's inability to be grouped into the OXIII falls only on the Psychological aspect of his nature-less-ness. He still performs (some) functions of being part of the OXIII (double-Agenting to fight Marluxia, being sent to kill/capture Roxas, controlling Assassin Nobodies), and taking a new name does not seems as though it would be a problem for him.

I'd break your theory apart line by line, but I'll spare you the theatrics.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

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Originally Posted by Sword

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

Impossible. Sora and Xehanort are the only two people who have ever managed to remain in control after transforming into a heartless instead of becoming a mindless creature craving hearts. This is confirmed in the game.

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It's not impossible. They are the only KNOWN examples.

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If they are the only known examples, then by default, they are the ONLY examples. You can't just go around in stick in random settings into a plot that is not yours, such as "ohh, I shall go and Deus Ex Machina the ending to KHII. The explanation is that Riku and Sora blah blah blah, all is saved. BUT WAIT! THERE'S A FOURTEENTH MEMBER OF OXIII!? LOLOLOLOLOL WE ARE SCREWED!" It's not yours to deal with as you wish, and you simply have to wait until more is revealed to you.

I very much doubt that KHIII (or the next section in the KH franchise) will focus on the Nobodies.

As to your second point, wtf are you on about? Axel's inability to be grouped into the OXIII falls only on the Psychological aspect of his nature-less-ness. He still performs (some) functions of being part of the OXIII (double-Agenting to fight Marluxia, being sent to kill/capture Roxas, controlling Assassin Nobodies), and taking a new name does not seems as though it would be a problem for him.

I'd break your theory apart line by line, but I'll spare you the theatrics.

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However I can counter each and every one of your points by saying the same words over again: Its possible. Jeez it was only a thought so decided to present it.

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If they are the only known examples, then by default, they are the ONLY examples. You can't just go around in stick in random settings into a plot that is not yours.

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Now what the hell is this? What about what Square done with Ansem huh? He was the bad guy in the first game, but in the second game we are suddenly told that he isnt really Ansem and just stole his name. It's not like random new things aren't suddenly added anyway. Look I'm just trying to make a link while keeping in mind the facts we already have about the names of the organization members. To me, my theory is the most plausable. I think you should read my original post and take into account EVERY word I say.

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Psychological aspect of his nature-less-ness

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What are you talking about here? I don't know what this has to do with anything I said.

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Originally Posted by Sword

However I can counter each and every one of your points by saying the same words over again: Its possible. Jeez it was only a thought so decided to present it.

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Hasty Generalization. Anyways, it is possible, but it doesn't mean anything, and is not canon. As it is not your game, you have no say as to whether or not it will go one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Sword

Now what the hell is this? What about what Square done with Ansem huh? He was the bad guy in the first game, but in the second game we are suddenly told that he isnt really Ansem and just stole his name. It's not like random new things aren't suddenly added anyway.

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KHII didn't exist when KHI was finished. Therefore, the plot of the KH series does not continue until the game is finished, and released. There are no developments.

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Originally Posted by Sword

What are you talking about here? I don't know what this has to do with anything I said.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Psychology (from Greek: ψυχή, psukhē, "spirit, soul"; and λόγος, logos, "knowledge") is an academic / applied discipline involving the scientific study of mental processes and behavior of humans and animals. Psychologists study such phenomena as perception, cognition, emotion, personality, behavior, and interpersonal relationships. Psychology also refers to the application of such knowledge to various spheres of human activity, including problems of individuals' daily lives and the treatment of mental health problems.

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Now that you are familiar with the term, Axel's differences from the other Organization XIII members falls solely on his psychology. I had to add in the nature-less-ness part, simply because as a Nobody, he does not have a nature or identity. It's called the ability to discern and apply theorem. Perhaps you should look it up, and that is why Axel cannot be an exception to the rule of "OMG MAI HAERTLES CAN THINK!"