How modern gaming has made us into wimpy gamers

I agree that the guy in the article is whining about things that are not part of the point. I don't mind tutorials but I would like if they were skippable or at least somewhat fun. Sly Cooper's tutorial was fun but FFVIII's was a pain cause it was long winded...

I also don't mind timed press events when they are done right. I feel they allow the player to finally interact with the story better and for once you can say you are responsible for the cool happening in the game instead of saying it was a cool story sequence.

I feel sad with the current gaming releases. I mean when a VN company can release a better(difficulty wise) SRPG than the big names in that area... well something just isn't right. For those of you wondering I mean Utawarerumono. The first version of the game was quite awful. But they quickly released the DVD and PS versions which upped the ante by quite a lot.

I mean, you want insane hard? Play Utawarerumono on Hard Mode 3. Not only do they get boosts, but the AI gets smarter as you go up(they exploit elemental weaknesses and grouping, like fire emblem being near one another boosts your abilities). The game is insanely simple(basically you have move and attack and two get access to magic, and there is no equipment and only three stats), but it is quite fun to play due to the strategy involved.


Yeah, I want to see more games like Utawarerumono where the game becomes more complex, the AI smarter, and the enemy stronger as you go up in difficulty(by complex not all the hidden elements take effect in easy mode, thus you don't have to keep grouped together to avoid being raped... of course when enemies start spell casting staying together isn't always a good idea... and while they don't do it on easy, I have been spell raped on hard mode 2.... I can't even get to the end game on Hard Mode 3... and I am used to these types of games... talk about hard).


Also Utawarerumono has tutorials, but they are skipable, and it even tells you about the hidden values if you get farther in game(and if you opt to go see that part). So you can play without any tutorials, or any spoilers on what does what. Or you can use the tutorials and get the inside info(the tutorials and inside info are unlocked into the menu screen so other than a little pop up 'in-game' it doesn't disrupt the flow, you can opt to look at them at anytime, or revisit them if you want).



I think Utawarerumono for all its faults managed to do gaming right. Which is sad because when you think Visual Novel you don't generally think Excellent Gameplay.

That article makes some good points. After all - OLD PERSON MODE - back in my day, when you played a game, you got three lives and maybe a couple of continues. And with that, you were supposed to complete the entire game.

Of course, the games themselves are completely different now, so the new 'wussy' gameplay elements are often more to do with practical necessity (or added realism) than dumbing-down for a more stupid generation. Mid-level saves and checkpoints, for instance, simply prevent abysmally boring repetition. Remember games like Sonic 1 on the Master Sytem? Ever get to the Sky Base level, then accidentally lose half your lives by accidentally slipping off one of the floating platforms? I can imagine what it'd be like playing Metal Gear Solid with the same limitations, and how most people would quite rightly give up if it was that easy to ruin your game, being forced to re-start.

Saves and checkpoints are one thing. I agree we need those, I get rather annoyed myself if I have to repeat too much. But things like bosses really need to be better. Give us the option to save whenever or lots of checkpoints, but give us a reason to use them. There should be something other then mistakes like slipping off a platform or having to quit for the night. I remeber quite a few older games were a save point was a much more apreciated sight. Luckily these things aren't completely gone yet, but I'm finding fewer and fewer reasons in games to care when the last time I saved was.

Try to do the boss run in MGS3, which is quite complex. :(

I dunno, I just like it when I can enjoy the game. I'm all for more difficulty settings, though.

It has gone down substantially.

There's not enough games these days that punish exploitation, spamming and overall-simplicity/ease.

and I agree with DMC4 (despite them doing a similar thing they did with DMC3: DA, SE)... The whole mechanics with Nero are way to easy to get use to and abuse (Max Act and the hand pulling thing...) and then there's this bastard I like to call Pandora... 'nuff said, made it far to easy.

This is why I also don't like Eye of the North's item additions to the game, Consumables have ruined what use to be a rather challenging Hard Mode (and despite people like me not-minding/loving PvE without them, 98% of the community demands them...)
You get to minus 60 DP... oh~ Powerstone that better and get a +10 morale boost!
Long skill recharges? Celerity that to hades!
Feeling glum for being a squishie and meeting death in a couple of hits Mr Warrior? WELL Grail and Salvs will fix all of those nightmaric dirtnaps.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

And the reason Ninja Gaiden suffered this fate is because gamers don't want a challenge anymore.

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You hit the nail on the head. The market is much different now than it was twenty years ago. There's still the hardcore market but the casual market is much bigger now, and therefore more likely to make money, and therefore more likely to be the types of games that companies make. Personally I'm not too fussed about the lowering of game difficulty over the years because inevitably it's about having fun, and sometimes getting your ass handed to you over and over again just isn't fun. Sometimes games can be excessive with their scaling back (paging Bioshock's infinite lives canisters), but other times they can be alright. Plus you can still find a challenge if you mess around with the difficulty sliders. God of War is an absolute bitch to play on God mode.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Personally, I feel stat modding can work but instead of raising defense or HP, it should be weaknesses and strengths. In normal mode the dragon boss is weak to ice and resists fire; in Hard mode he should be weak to lightening and resist fire ice and physical. Perhaps he counters with a devastating attack if you don't hit him with the correct weakness. Basically, you need to switch up strategy and punish the player a little more for making mistakes but of course we need to keep point 1 in mind as well so the game stays fun...

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^ This is some good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

My only real fear is that the gaming industry is getting closer to repeating the gaming industry crash from the early 80's. I sometimes wonder if this "extreme casual" crowd only see's gaming as a fad and will move on when its over? I only wonder, cause it just doesn't feel like the industry is doing its best to convert these former non-gamers into "gaming investors".

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I'm really afraid it is a fad, partly because the wii and this casual market overall is relatively inexpensive, it's easier to get out of it. I honestly can't see this same trend continuing years down the road, maybe cell phone games as our technology catches up with Japan, but not in the console/handheld (ds/psp stuff) world. And when they do move on to the next thing, there's going to be a huge infrastructure with no one to sell to, it's not going to be pretty. "hardcore" gamers will be fine, because we have so much freeware and existing titles to catch up on, but it might take companies a little while to get back to making titles again.

Actually, a crash would be a great thing, because everything up to and including next gen consoles and games would be so cheap, we'd be able to build up our collections relatively inexpensively. Gamers of the world, unite!

I might disagree with a few of you here, but that might be because we have a different view on gaming.

I usually play FF, TES or HP-games, and I play them to immense myself in the world and to enjoy a good story. Those are the main reasons I play games. I don't want them too difficult, simply because the challenge bit is not a major factor in why I play games.

So I guess this depends on at least two major factors - a) why you play games and b) what kind of games you play

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

I'm really afraid it is a fad, partly because the wii and this casual market overall is relatively inexpensive, it's easier to get out of it. I honestly can't see this same trend continuing years down the road, maybe cell phone games as our technology catches up with Japan, but not in the console/handheld (ds/psp stuff) world. And when they do move on to the next thing, there's going to be a huge infrastructure with no one to sell to, it's not going to be pretty. "hardcore" gamers will be fine, because we have so much freeware and existing titles to catch up on, but it might take companies a little while to get back to making titles again.

Actually, a crash would be a great thing, because everything up to and including next gen consoles and games would be so cheap, we'd be able to build up our collections relatively inexpensively. Gamers of the world, unite!

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You are much more optimistic about this than I am.

My only real problem with the idea of another industry crash is the realization that the gaming economy is not exactly stable as it is. We've seen some major third party companies enter into some mergers and buy outs in the last few years. Hell Square had to merge due to one bad movie at a time when it was king of the gaming industry so a total crash may see the end for alot of major developers. Not to mention that some developers are forsaking their fanbase in favor of the new super casual market *cough* Nintendo *cough* and so fan loyalty is not where it used to be.

If the industry crashed, I see a lot of third party developers being bought out by corporate powerhouses like Sony, Microsoft, and EA. We would also see some massive takeovers and mergers that makes the ones from a few years ago seem trivial. It may even take awhile for a stable business model to go into practice. The gaming crash happened in 83 but I feel most people would agree that gaming didn't really start to recover until the early 90's.

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Originally Posted by Tabris

I might disagree with a few of you here, but that might be because we have a different view on gaming.

I usually play FF, TES or HP-games, and I play them to immense myself in the world and to enjoy a good story. Those are the main reasons I play games. I don't want them too difficult, simply because the challenge bit is not a major factor in why I play games.

So I guess this depends on at least two major factors - a) why you play games and b) what kind of games you play

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I don't think its so much what games you play as much as the why. I actually play a large number of RPGs in comparison to other genres and I am all for increased difficulty. I do play the genre for story but I still recognize the genre as a game and I expect it to fulfill certain needs.

On the other hand, there are people like yourself who play the genre solely for story and the idea of making the game difficult may harm the flow of the plot. I personally cannot fathom this course of thinking (going back to my analogy of playing a sport with friends for company) but I feel that most would agree that a difficulty setting would allow us both to enjoy our games for our specific purposes.

I do feel that the shift to a strong narrative and storytelling aspects is a prime culprit in why gaming has become much easier in recent years but there are certain titles that fulfill both needs. MGS for instance offers an amazing story and some awesome challenges.

If you're interested in the story that much more than the gameplay you should just stop playing games all together and take up reading.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

If you're interested in the story that much more than the gameplay you should just stop playing games all together and take up reading.

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What if you just happen to like games with good stories? :p

Isn't that what the difficulty setting is for? -_-

I don't see the problem at all with playing games for a good story or to immense myself in a lovely world, Roto13. :)