Even if the PS3 is a better platform for a game than the 360, that is a long way from saying it is better than releasing on both.
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Even if the PS3 is a better platform for a game than the 360, that is a long way from saying it is better than releasing on both.
Any kind of "Square should be loyal to PS3" is absolutely elitist bull:bou::bou::bou::bou:. Enix is going to make whatever move is most profitable. Without getting in this console war debate, the XBOX has clearly made strides, plowing its way into the permanently into the gaming scene, and Square will make the most money by giving it to XBOX users as well. Square is going to do whatever they feel will get them the most money, if they feel that selling at the same time will create a bigger hype, or whatever reason they have, they're going to withhold the game to make more money! Video games are a business, business doesn't have room for loyalty.
EDIT: The link you provided is also a link to a blog, in which the comments in the blog itself are contradictory.
Not only are you way behind in this discussion (we've already established that install bases and platform choices do not necessarily equate more money), but you succeed in overlooking the main issue at hand here, which is the arbitrary delay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
If you're referring to my link, here are three more sources as well as the original source.
Actually, I'm not really quite sure what it being a blog, or a blog with contradictory comments actually has to do with the recent trend in software sales.
What the crap are all of you talking about? You're all making enemies of each other over "who likes what more" and sales of companies before and after they merged? I fail to see how any of what you're all saying is even remotely close to the amount of discs there are in a @$%&ing picture. And I'm sure at least one of you will post an incredibly long, incredibly dull post defending yourself and your stupidity, so I'll just say this: SHUT UP! GET A LIFE! And to the people who don't like getting "made fun of", quit posting in here and you won't keep getting pissed of at who said what about your fanboyism. Trust me, if you forget about it you'll get a good nights sleep, and so will whoever you've been ranting to.
It's a forum... xD!Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian XIII
lol That was not what I was expecting at all. I have been shown the light.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FFXIII YEAH
It is true that other factors need to be present to get a true estimate of a games potential, all I am doing is pointing out where I feel the logic is with SE's Sales department. Besides, even if XIII does sell amazingly well on the PS3, it doesn't change the fact the game will do even better when you add in the 360's sales. If the PS3 sell 10 million and the 360 sells 5 million that's still 5 million more units. To be honest, whether it does better on one console or the other doesn't matter. SE wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
I understand why you are pissed but it really doesn't change the fact, besides, the Japanese version isn't even done with its own VA work and it seems like its only going to take the standard 6 months it normally takes for any FF to be translated and localized. The fact the 360 version will be available on the same day seems irrelevent. The game to me feels like its being released like every other title in the series has been up until now. Its not like localization can be done over a weekend. I just feel you are turning this into a "fan war" even though objectively it seems no different than normal.Quote:
1. My entire point is that FFXIII would obviously come out at least marginally sooner if the localization process weren't dependent on the porting process. I think it's arbitrary to delay one for the other. It is almost a red herring for you to focus on the "loyalty" aspect which was more of an addendum to what I was saying. The only real objection you have is fairness, which:
SE is catering to the Japanese fans and the Gaijin are screwed again. Seriously from what I've read, I don't see why SE has to wait for the PS3 version to be finished first in order to do the finishing touches on the 360. Both versions have been made simulataneously up until this point. I figure its favoritism for the Japanese fans rather than them wanting to screw over the Western PS3 owners.
All those games have simultaneous release on their appropiate console, the only difference is where. So tell me... When has Squenix ever released a game on the same day in different countries? They have always started the localization process only after the Japanese version is finished, most likely cause it will be easier to dub the game rather than work on multiple scripts at the same time. So you are yelling cause SE is doing what they always have done?Quote:
2. Plenty of games play favorites, Modern Warfare 2, Assassin's Creed II, and Batman: Arkham Asylum are a just a few big titles that will do that this year to some degree, albeit small (much like having a XIII out slightly earlier on PS3).
Most sources I see say 360 is still king of the mountain in Europe. As for Japan, historically, western games and consoles don't do well in Japan. Hell, games that are very popular in the West sometimes don't do well in Japan, MGS series for example has always sold considerably less in its homeland than abroad. To be honest, the 360 has done all in its power to appease the Japanese and though they are doing better than their predecessor they are still lagging. Yet no one can really say why the system has failed there. I have theories but this is not the place to say them. ;)Quote:
3. Where are you getting this that Sony is not doing well on the market? If you compare month-after-month sales since launch for the PS3 and the 360, the PS3 has outperformed the 360 in a similar time series. Not to mention the PS3 has done much better in Japan, and has been said to have eclipsed the 360 in Europe.
Yet it should be noted that Japan is not the market it used to be, its not as strong as it was years ago and even though the PS3 is doing well, its obvious Japan is more concerned with the Wii and the DS. Hell it took two different titles (Crisis Core and Dissidia) from SE to finally get the PSP selling. I can't say having the Japanese market really gives you the kind of edge it did back in the late 90's and early 21st century. I'm not saying its bad but its not as strong. Thogh I do feel it helps with your next comment.
Lord, being a third party comapny and not doing well on the Wii seems to be the norm actually so the EA comment doesn't surprise me. To be honest, I feel the Japanese market has to do with it cause the PS3 has no competition with the 360 there. That's why I understand why SE is making XIII an exlusive there. The competition is stiffer in the West but SE wins no matter what since its catering to all platforms. I feel this whole deal only seems unfair to people who bought the PS3 exclusively for XIII. Still, I don't see the point in crying around about it. I originally got into this whole argument cause I felt your "Square owes Sony fans" comment was just ridiculous myself and now I find myself arguing over something completely different. How amusing... ;)Quote:
4. You're largely exaggerating "grumblings" about the PS3 and its price - EA, Ubisoft, Namco Bandai, and Konami have all reported the PS3 as bringing in more revenue than the 360. In EA's case, it was even more than the Wii. Those are 4 of the biggest third party publishers in the industry. Also, you could say that's because Konami released MGS4 that year, but it just goes to show that they could have record revenue (which they did) by releasing a PS3 exclusive.
PS3 Selling More Games than XBox 360 with Smaller Install Base
As much as people would want to buy a PS3 for FFXIII are somewhat disappointed since it will also be released on the 360, it does not change the fact that --as far as I am aware-- Versus will be a PS3 exclusive. So that is some food for thought, though I wish they would release more info about Versus too.
You got that right, because I have no idea what you're talking about with simultaneous release dates, the standard localization process, etc! Again, my claim is that its arbitrary to delay the release of the localization process for the sake of the porting phase. Maybe if we talk about the specifics of porting here, we can have a more constructive conversation:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
1. 1UP's RPG Blog : XIII Things About Final Fantasy XIII, Part V
It seems that you, like many others, are under the impression that "multiplatform engine" means that they can just flick a switch and all the code will instantly compile into a workable alternate version. This is obviously not the case! Even if the Crystal tools can make a painless transition from running on the PS3 architecture to 360 (which would be an enormous achievement considering how different the PS3 is from everything else), there's still other factors.
Hard Drive installs are a good example. This is one of the main complaints many big developers have about the 360 - they will not allow a game to have a hard drive requirement (FFXI being the only exception I'm aware of, because it simply needs it to play). To make a game based on hard drive installs do the same things off a disc, even if its easy for a specific title, takes time - id Software had to redesign their entire concept for Rage because Microsoft simply would not budge on the issue! Outside of the game itself, load times will also have to be addressed. Whether difficult or not, its extra issues that need to be resolved before you can start printing discs. Which is things that need to be resolved before you can even start the main localization process? (wtf)
Not to mention there are plethora of minor things like getting the package together, that will also hold up the process.
2. With the PS3 being region-free, the localization process is less painful than ever. Other than a manual and boxart, Sony could ship Demon's Souls right now if they wanted to in the US, b/c the Asian version has a full English text & voice translation (which I'm enjoying right now, thank you very much(not trying to be a snob)). Again, I'm not now, nor have I ever said anything about a simultaneous release, but this process has less issues than ever now.
I know some of you say "this is a business" and Square wants to maximize sales at launch in NA - but we could go down the long list of games that sacrificed some of the business aspect for the sake of creating something amazing. And we're all immensely better off for it. I think anyone who disagrees with that needs to put the controller down and take business classes because their hearts are in the wrong place.
Wow, more than one disk... Whatever, it doesn't change anything. If the amount of disks it has makes you want to not buy it, your loss (hopefully).
Nomura is the head of Versus, and you know he loves to keep all info about the game for 2 years after it is released almost as much as he loves belts. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
I never said that translating the game from one hardware to another was as easy as flipping a switch. Rather from what I've read concerning the 360 version its more than on its way, seeing as they were able to show off footage of the 360 version at the recent E3.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarYou got that right, because I have no idea what you're talking about with simultaneous release dates, the standard localization process, etc! Again, my claim is that its arbitrary to delay the release of the localization process for the sake of the porting phase. Maybe if we talk about the specifics of porting here, we can have a more constructive conversation:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
1. 1UP's RPG Blog : XIII Things About Final Fantasy XIII, Part V
It seems that you, like many others, are under the impression that "multiplatform engine" means that they can just flick a switch and all the code will instantly compile into a workable alternate version. This is obviously not the case! Even if the Crystal tools can make a painless transition from running on the PS3 architecture to 360 (which would be an enormous achievement considering how different the PS3 is from everything else), there's still other factors.
Hard Drive installs are a good example. This is one of the main complaints many big developers have about the 360 - they will not allow a game to have a hard drive requirement (FFXI being the only exception I'm aware of, because it simply needs it to play). To make a game based on hard drive installs do the same things off a disc, even if its easy for a specific title, takes time - id Software had to redesign their entire concept for Rage because Microsoft simply would not budge on the issue! Outside of the game itself, load times will also have to be addressed. Whether difficult or not, its extra issues that need to be resolved before you can start printing discs. Which is things that need to be resolved before you can even start the main localization process? (wtf)
Not to mention there are plethora of minor things like getting the package together, that will also hold up the process.
Maybe Crystal Tools is as amazing as SE says it is or maybe (and most likely) SE started the 360 version before they originally said it would cause the PS3 owners bitched and screamed about having to wait. What I was trying to point out was that the English version of the PS3 version is also waiting on the Japanese version of the game which is how its always been. I don't see why SE feels they can't do the localization simultaneously. At the recent E3, the localization of the Japanese version was confirmed to be at 60% completion by Kitase and the XIII director, the english localization had only begun but apparently enough was done to make a trailer. The director mentioned their will be no separate languages so chances are the Japanese script will be removed and replaced.
I am certain the 360 version still has alot of work to do but SE gives the impression the 360 version is farther along than fans think they are. Besides, if the 360 version does fall into a snag, chances are that SE will release the PS3 version instead of waiting for the 360 version. They would be stupid if they didn't. SE says the Japanese version will hit either November or December and we can expect the English versions starting in March or April. Its not like we're waiting a year...
I also am rather doubtful that both versions will be the exact same. I do feel the PS3 version will be better cause the title was worked on PS3 technoclogy longer than the 360. Though the differences in quality will be small at best, I guarantee fanboys on both sides of the console wars will use it for cannon fodder. :roll2
Its not just box art (besides the Japanese generally do better) we're talking about mountains of dialogue that needs to translated and restructured so the native speaker can understand it. That takes time and its worth mentioning that SE always makes sure to refer to the localization as the Japanese version and the English version when it comes to the localization.Quote:
2. With the PS3 being region-free, the localization process is less painful than ever. Other than a manual and boxart, Sony could ship Demon's Souls right now if they wanted to in the US, b/c the Asian version has a full English text & voice translation (which I'm enjoying right now, thank you very much(not trying to be a snob)). Again, I'm not now, nor have I ever said anything about a simultaneous release, but this process has less issues than ever now.
That tells me that despite being region free, there probably is no english text translator or at best its not that good. I felt SE did a bang up job with the localization for XII, and it was something that couldn't be done with a simple translator. Demon's Soul probably has the feature in the Japanese version cause the development team had the foresight to start production on the English version in case it got picked up for release outside of Japan; which it has, I am happy to see. Especially since its one of the few PS3 exclusives I'm interested in.
As I said earlier, I don't know why SE insists on starting with the English localization until the Japanese version is almost done unless its just them being careful in case the Japanese version runs into a snag and they try to avoid having the English version fall into the same problem. But that's just my guess. For all I know, they just hate us cause one of the execs didn't get the little umbrella in his Pina Collada last time he came here. So he's a bit bitter and says the translation can wait. ;)
I agree we are better off if take each title as something special and treat it so but I'm just saying this is how I feel SE thinks in terms of their products. I don't necessarily agree with business before art but I felt SE has been thinking like this for awhile so I can't say I feel my trust is as violated as your is. Face it, though we may think of FF as a fun experiences close to art; SE see's it as a business first and our wants are second to numbers on the sheets. This is just what happens when you begin franchising a product.Quote:
I know some of you say "this is a business" and Square wants to maximize sales at launch in NA - but we could go down the long list of games that sacrificed some of the business aspect for the sake of creating something amazing. And we're all immensely better off for it. I think anyone who disagrees with that needs to put the controller down and take business classes because their hearts are in the wrong place.
Well, it seems that we're fundamentally at agreement on this issue. My only qualm is the possibility (and not concrete fact) that the PS3 version would be held up due to unforseen roadblocks in the porting process, but if that doesn't happen, and the Spring 2010 release date holds up, I'll be content and happy. Actually I probably won't even be getting FFXIII then because of God of War/Heavy Rain/White Knight Chronicles anyway so maybe it doesn't even matter after all...
Also, FYI, either Toriyama or Kitase stated recently that they basically just built that 360 E3 demo from scratch over the last 2 months just so they could have something to show. So I don't think it's plausible to say they've started work on the 360 version earlier than we've thought.
Lastly, I know you said
I'm not sure if you were talking about Demon's Souls, but if you were I thought you should know that it's the full localization job - from talented voice actors down to the messages you can leave for other adventurers at certain spots, it's all A+ work. Even better than you would expect from an official North America/European release. The disc itself is ready to go for an English speaker - the PS3 automatically recognizes which region you're playing in and runs the game in English from the very moment you put the disc in. It even comes with a fold-out that has the entire manual condensed in a one-page resource for English speakers. It's all pretty surprising, really.Quote:
That tells me that despite being region free, there probably is no english text translator or at best its not that good
You should look up a video if you have any doubts left. This game is the return of the hardcore RPG challenge that I think a lot of us have been waiting for.
It was in reference to XIII not Demon Soul but its all good. I'm all for good recommendations for titles I'm curious about.
I follow Atlus titles and this one peeked in my radar a few months ago. It looks pretty damn fine to me and I do love the way they utilize online elements. It really doesn't surprise me they got the text translator working like that cause Atlus and FromSoftware are both really good about releasing even minor expansions and special editions of titles to non-Japanese audiences. I could see FromSoftware making sure multi-language was implemented from the beginning of the project.
As for XIII, I heard the english trailer was thrown together at the last minute but I didn't here it was the 360 version, but who knows. As long as the game makes deadline its all good.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if SE was ahead of schedule for the both versions just because I'm surprised they are willing to release a game after the holiday season. Though they won't have as much competition in the spring.