No. :colbert:Quote:
Originally Posted by Christmas
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No. :colbert:Quote:
Originally Posted by Christmas
Well, I doubt your favorite Barret have a chance either! :mad2:
I agree with you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I think that is the good and simple way to explain things!
But I want to add something... Staring at the starts and talking about past and future with someone does not necessary mean loving him/her... I think you can do this with friends too...
As I said, I believe you can share your feelings with someone and talk about the future with him/her, and having a lot of memories of the past, and even live some situations that could be named as romantic by others with someone and just be friends with him/her... =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Shishikabob
I mean, I have friends like that, the ones I use to share a lot of feelings and things of my life with them, and we usually make plans for the future (I can even remember we have talked more than once about living together for working or studying, the reasons doesn't matter)... I have also been in situations that someone could call romantic with some of them (alone), like watching the dusk in a beach and things like that, but I only have a friend relationship with them and we won't have something more than friends love... We could Never have something more! D:!
Or it's just that I, as Zeromus (Zemus Hatred), can't feel love? XD
I don't believe it ;D ... :P
But well, the point is that I think Tifa can really have a love relationship with Barret more than with Cloud, and having all those memories and situations with him are not proof of Cloud loving her... Cause as Cloud common quote says: he will probably be "not interested"...
Maybe Tifa loves him, but Cloud loving her? I don't believe it...
And I don't remember Tifa and Cloud raising a family =/ ...please tell me If I'm wrong, but I remember them sharing life moments (Maybe living sometime with Cloud, but Cloud later moved to the church when he had Geostigma) and taking care of kids, but it was Barret there too =/...(FF7:AC)...Please tell me if I'm wrong, I never liked FF7 so much...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shishikabob
I really think there is a difference between things the creator or designers of something want to put on it, and the final results of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shishikabob
Maybe they really wanted to make a love triangle for the story, but I think the result was a little different to what they maybe wanted because the final product didn't make a lot of us get that impression...
I really think we are talking too much about something not that important... :roll2
You can do that without being lovers. But you can put your penis into someone's vagina without being lovers, too. Staring at the stars and saying the things that Cloud and Tifa were saying is romantic. Talking about the past/future in the way they were doing such things was further showing how close they are.
EDIT: As for what Cloud feels, a lot of what he says is dictated by the player. They basically set it out a fair bit so you can get your own emotional attachments to other characters, to feel as if you are Cloud. I'm not saying he had zero personality, but I am saying that you could make Cloud be a dick to Tifa or you could make him flirt with Tifa. Basically, Cloud might feel emotions but in the original game they are significantly impacted by the player.
As for him having zero emotions, I won't believe that. I don't show my emotions to my girlfriend all the time but that doesn't mean I don't love her all the time. There is no set definition of love, either, so how Cloud experiences it and/or shows it is purely speculative. Given that this is a Final Fantasy story, though, I would certainly not go as far as to say that he "can't love" or "doesn't love".
EDIT: As for the kids, Barret wasn't there nearly as much as Tifa and Cloud, who lived together and took care of kids, although I do not believe they were their own. I don't think Barret worked with Cloud/Tifa, nor were they part of the household.
Lol, really? Aerith is NOT a slut. If she was a slut, she would have been screwing guys constantly after Zack wasn't around. She waited for Zack and when he didn't come back, she went to Cloud. That's two guys that she did NOT sleep with, ergo she is NOT a slut. (Can't tell if you're being serious or not though :p)Quote:
Tifa. I don't recall any romantic moments between Aeris and Cloud. Maybe some deep moments but certainly nothing romantic. Tifa reacts angrily when some slutty bird comes in and hits on her man, but sluttiness is not love at all. And Aeris is slutty. Anyone who would act the way she did around Cloud in the real world after only knowing them for that short a time would be called a slut by a lot of people. She also had it in for Zack, of course, but was probably willing to sleep with Cloud 'cause they were in the same crew that one time. Total slut actions. What a whore.
Tifa, on the other hand, acts exactly like a romantic lover would throughout. She stares at the stars with him, talks about the past and the future, and, you know, clearly gets it on when they're around the crater thing.
And really - really - you don't buy flowers from a girl you love and give them to a girl you don't love. That's just stupid. I mean, Cloud is stupid, but he's not that thick.
Honestly, in any other fandom all of that information would be enough to deem a couple canon. Look at it as a whole. Sure two people can share feelings related to their future and not be a couple. I guess you could raise a family with someone and not be their lover. Sure two people can belong together as friends.... but when you look at all those quotes as a whole, there's no reason to think that they're not a couple. I mean, if they used one, maybe TWO I could see you getting by on the just friends thing, but the evidence to suggest they're a couple is overwhelming when you look at it as the full puzzle and not just one piece at a time.Quote:
As I said, I believe you can share your feelings with someone and talk about the future with him/her, and having a lot of memories of the past, and even live some situations that could be named as romantic by others with someone and just be friends with him/her... =/
I mean, I have friends like that, the ones I use to share a lot of feelings and things of my life with them, and we usually make plans for the future (I can even remember we have talked more than once about living together for working or studying, the reasons doesn't matter)... I have also been in situations that someone could call romantic with some of them (alone), like watching the dusk in a beach and things like that, but I only have a friend relationship with them and we won't have something more than friends love... We could Never have something more! D:!
Based on what exactly? Your basis for Cloud and Tifa not being able to have a relationship is that Cloud doesn't love Tifa... when did Barret show he loved Tifa?Quote:
But well, the point is that I think Tifa can really have a love relationship with Barret more than with Cloud, and having all those memories and situations with him are not proof of Cloud loving her...
And it IS shown Cloud loves Tifa. It's the whole reason he went into SOLDIER. Also, in the lifestream event after Tifa says to the younger Cloud that she began looking for information about him in the newspapers he says something along the lines of, "Be sure to tell him that, he'll be happy to hear it." If Cloud's feelings are platonic, he wouldn't care so much about this. Also I'm sure Cloud wouldn't care so much about just a "friend" reading about him in the newspaper. And read Case of Tifa and tell me this sounds platonic:
Cloud is talking about having Tifa by his side in a way that's different than before. What is different? They shared and realized their mutual feelings for one another under the highwind and it wouldn't make sense for them to be realizing a friendship they already had...Quote:
Originally Posted by Case of Tifa
Why is Cloud blushing here? Embarrassment? That doesn't fit the context. Must be something else going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Case of Tifa
You are so wrong... so very very very wrong...Quote:
And I don't remember Tifa and Cloud raising a family =/ ...please tell me If I'm wrong, but I remember them sharing life moments (Maybe living sometime with Cloud, but Cloud later moved to the church when he had Geostigma) and taking care of kids, but it was Barret there too =/...(FF7:AC)...Please tell me if I'm wrong, I never liked FF7 so much...
First of all, they WERE raising a family:
Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzel have been referred to as a family SEVERAL times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10th Anniversary Ultimania
Notice the part I bolded. It specifically states the three of them are a family. Just the three of them, Barret is not included.Quote:
Originally Posted by 10th Anniversary Ultimania
Also from the 10th Anniversary Ultimania:
Right there it states that the family is Cloud's and again Denzel joins it. No mention of Barret.Quote:
Cloud brings Denzel back from the slum’s church and Denzel joins Cloud’s family.
Also in FFVII AC Cloud calls the family his.
"Tifa I don't think I'm fit to help anyone. Not my family, not my friends, nobody."
Lastly there's the ACC playback. This guide also specifically states who's in the family:
In order we haveQuote:
When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma– his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realises where he is meant to live. He realises that he was able to forgive himself.
1.His friends.
2.The children
3.Tifa, Marlene and Denzel... his family! No mention of Barret or anyone else being in the family. Tifa, Marlene and Denzel are separated from the rest. So no, Barret was NOT there with them. It was confirmed in Case of Tifa that Barret left shortly after they opened the bar:
And just like that he's gone and he does not return until FFVII AC/C. If you're going to argue that Cloud isn't in the family because he's not at 7th heaven much... you can't POSSIBLY say Barret is part of the family as he's NEVER there. As for Cloud not living there in ACC, we've discussed this already. It was due to his guilt. After that was resoled, he came back and continued to live with Tifa and the children, but you know who didn't? Barret.Quote:
Originally Posted by Case of Tifa
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10th Anniversary Ultmania
Only if you don't know the material.Quote:
Maybe they really wanted to make a love triangle for the story, but I think the result was a little different to what they maybe wanted because the final product didn't make a lot of us get that impression...
I don't have a gun to your head forcing you to reply, do I? You're welcome to not reply at any time.Quote:
I really think we are talking too much about something not that important...
And yet, no matter what you do to Tifa, they still share their feelings for one another under the highwind and “live together in AC and DC.” Strange, isn't it? It's like they're trying to send us a message :pQuote:
EDIT: As for what Cloud feels, a lot of what he says is dictated by the player. They basically set it out a fair bit so you can get your own emotional attachments to other characters, to feel as if you are Cloud. I'm not saying he had zero personality, but I am saying that you could make Cloud be a dick to Tifa or you could make him flirt with Tifa. Basically, Cloud might feel emotions but in the original game they are significantly impacted by the player.
I too, would like to know how Barret and Tifa have more of a chance than Cloud and Tifa, when neither of the former two have been said to have any romantic feelings for each other, and the latter two have, and have been said to have a future together, and are always discussed as together, to the point that they are a single keyword in the Crisis Core Keyword collection.
And hello again, everyone. Not sure if I am remembered.
lolololololol xdQuote:
Originally Posted by Shishikabob
You take things too seriously =/ ... That was just a light comment, and it had an emoticon at the end of the line to give it that light meaning...
About the thread... I really have not read the 10th Anniversary Ultimania, I prefer wasting my time playing videogames than reading about them... (even thought I enjoy too much talking about them) ...so I didn't know what they explained there about the story... that was one of the reasons why I said that if the developers want to put something in their stories, they not always get those results... The reason that they have to explain some facts in a guide or book, or interviews, or things like that is a proof of this... Those arguments taken from 10th Anniversary Ultimania, can be right, but they are not facts seen in the games or movie itselves... (I am not telling with this that they are wrong facts)...
About Barret, I'm really not saying that he has a love interest in Tifa... I'm just saying that I think he is better for her and he could have a good relationship, if that were the case...
About Cloud loving Tifa, I still really don't think so... But of course, there are all the facts that put them together in a relationship... Another interesting thing is that there is a lot of people that has a "love" relationship with people they really don't love... If the question is about feeling love or having a love interest, I would say by my opinion of what I see in the games and the movies that I don't believe he loves her...
Of course, I prefer Tifa instead of Aerith :B!
Hey, have you noticed that in the end of Dissidia, (SPOILER)when they need/use an important or beloved memory to go back to their worlds, Cloud recalls Aerith flowers instead of something about Tifa?
I think that's interesting... Would it be only his regret? Or is she really more important for him?
Well, this is just something curious I wanted to add to the topic... Of course there can be lot's of reasons for the developers to put this, specially the one that the concept of what represents their returning to their worlds has to be something characteristic from their original game/world... But I still think is curious...
I dont get why some people dont see anything between Cloud and Tifa. Cloud pretty much tells Tifa she's been the inspiration of everything he's done in his life...
Nearly everything IN the UO and U10 is a clarification of facts presented either obliquely or briefly in the original games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus
HOW, though? He's like her dad, if anything.Quote:
About Barret, I'm really not saying that he has a love interest in Tifa... I'm just saying that I think he is better for her and he could have a good relationship, if that were the case...
But you will say he loves someone else based on those same games and movie with far far less of an indication?Quote:
About Cloud loving Tifa, I still really don't think so... But of course, there are all the facts that put them together in a relationship... Another interesting thing is that there is a lot of people that has a "love" relationship with people they really don't love... If the question is about feeling love or having a love interest, I would say by my opinion of what I see in the games and the movies that I don't believe he loves her...
This is actually a COMPLETE non-starter, since that's not what they need at all.Quote:
Hey, have you noticed that in the end of Dissidia, (SPOILER)when they need/use an important or beloved memory to go back to their worlds, Cloud recalls Aerith flowers instead of something about Tifa?
I think that's interesting... Would it be only his regret? Or is she really more important for him?
Well, this is just something curious I wanted to add to the topic... Of course there can be lot's of reasons for the developers to put this, specially the one that the concept of what represents their returning to their worlds has to be something characteristic from their original game/world... But I still think is curious...
I mean, if was related to love interests, you'd expect Garnet to get mentioned in Zidane's departure, or Yuna in Tidus's, or ROSA IN GODDAMN CECIL'S. Hell, even Boco, Bartz's best goddamn friend, constant companion, and even part of his EX burst gets no mention. The field is Gaia, just as the moon represents the blue planet, and the red roses Firi's land, etc. You'd also expect them to make mention of this idea in the Dissidia Ultimania, but no, no mention of the yellow flowers as a link to Aerith. It is merely their homeworlds.
Besides, he trudges all over them, repeating 'Not interested' as he does so. TTLY romantic.
Seriously, though, why look to AUs and Dissidia for the answers to a question inside the Compilation?
And Zeromus, I do have to reiterate the idea that in any other setting, C/T's evidence would be more than sufficient, nearly excessive to prove that Cloud was in love with Tifa. Why now, in this setting, must the standards be so much higher for one side only?
Pfft, sorry, perhaps I should have added a :monster: at the end.... :monster:Quote:
lolololololol xd
You take things too seriously =/ ... That was just a light comment, and it had an emoticon at the end of the line to give it that light meaning...
Fair enough but I'm presenting you with facts to let you know what the real deal is. The love triangle is no longer opinion, it's fact now and I'm here to discuss the facts, not just people's preferences.Quote:
About the thread... I really have not read the 10th Anniversary Ultimania, I prefer wasting my time playing videogames than reading about them... (even thought I enjoy too much talking about them)
No dude, it's just that certain people choose to completely ignore the facts and see things another way even though they have to distort evidence to get there. Others like to cover their ears and sing when presented with correct material because it threatens their OTP.Quote:
I didn't know what they explained there about the story... that was one of the reasons why I said that if the developers want to put something in their stories, they not always get those results... The reason that they have to explain some facts in a guide or book, or interviews, or things like that is a proof of this...
There's very few people who don't see these things as facts in the games. Like I said some people just prefer to either ignore it, or distort it. But just because some people don't see the facts the way they are, doesn't make them any less clear.Quote:
Those arguments taken from 10th Anniversary Ultimania, can be right, but they are not facts seen in the games or movie itselves...
That's nice, the creators disagree though :monster:.Quote:
About Barret, I'm really not saying that he has a love interest in Tifa... I'm just saying that I think he is better for her and he could have a good relationship, if that were the case...
I don't know how you see the Lifestream event and then say "Cloud doesn't love Tifa." I really don't, but either way I've provided you with the evidence that he does and you seem to understand now, so go you :cool:Quote:
If the question is about feeling love or having a love interest, I would say by my opinion of what I see in the games and the movies that I don't believe he loves her...
As for Dissidia, I've never played so I'll let Ryu or someone else answer that. I will say that, as someone who is as strong of a Cloti as I am, Dissidia was the only time my resolve ever wavered. But I explain my findings here, but again, I never played it so I'm not really in a position to say anything:
LTD Dissidia Stuff
AKA the lifestream event, which is exactly the point I was trying to make above.Quote:
I dont get why some people dont see anything between Cloud and Tifa. Cloud pretty much tells Tifa she's been the inspiration of everything he's done in his life...
Okay, Aeris isn't the pure definition of a slut, but she is slutty and, as I said, anyone who would act like that around someone they'd only just recently met would be considered to be infatuated at best. She never gives off any sign to me that she is after anything but a quick snog and shag. Possibly just trying to steal Tifa's guy, I dunno. But she certainly has no reason to be in love with him at all aside from that he might remind her of another guy - and that's not love for Cloud, that's love for Zack. So there you go.
I take it you're not one of those who believes Maiden of the Planet is canon? Also wondering if you've read Case of Lifestream White.
I've read a couple of the short stories they put online but don't recall them well. It doesn't make Aeris any less of a ho for how she acts around Cloud, though.
heh, okay then, I think I'm going to just that be that then. But if you do get around to reading them, you might change you mind.... MIGHT. :monster:
Note: "couple of short stories they put online" = Square Enix stories, not fanfiction. There's a good chance I may have read them. Although the one I remember was about Tifa and Cloud, not Aeris. So yarr.