The darkest Final Fantasy?

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Originally Posted by leader of mortals

You're using all of the wrong reasons to call a game dark. How does weather actually make a game darker? That would be like calling the Dark Knight an evil, saddening film just because it takes place at night much of the time.

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Weather makes the game darker the same way everything else does: it helps set the mood. Take any scene from a movie, and film it twice. Once in a brightly lit sunshiny area, and again when it is dark and raining, and ask people which one is darker, even if the dialogue and music are exactly the same. There is a reason we describe the tone of a situation as "light" and "dark", you know. The imagery of such things is tied very deeply in with the ambience, including lighting effects, and precipitation. Don't think that weather can't have a very distinct effect in setting the mood of a scene.

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Exactly, and Tetsuya Nomura likes gloomy characters with gloomy weather to match. Haven't you noticed that all of the main characters that he designed have named related to weather? In particular, BAD weather, and that's why many of his characters are dark and gloomy (except for perhaps Tidus from FFX).

I think that a "dark" game should remain "dark" when taken completely out of context. There's a difference between dark subject matter and dark ambiance. Not that one's better than the other, just saying.

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Originally Posted by arcanedude34

I think that a "dark" game should remain "dark" when taken completely out of context. There's a difference between dark subject matter and dark ambiance. Not that one's better than the other, just saying.

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Mind explaining the two terms in more detail?

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Originally Posted by SuperMillionaire

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Originally Posted by arcanedude34

I think that a "dark" game should remain "dark" when taken completely out of context. There's a difference between dark subject matter and dark ambiance. Not that one's better than the other, just saying.

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Mind explaining the two terms in more detail?

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A dark subject would be the actual dialogue and subject matter. The plot is darker, more sinister, more serious.

While the dark ambiance is all the mood setters. Music and lighting chief among them.

The unfortunate thing with keeping the dark subject seperate from the dark ambiance is that it can be difficult to impossible to tell where one ends and the others begin. Having a character die instead of merely falling unconscious should be considered darker by most traditional assessments, yet it is not always. How dark the event seems is determined not just by what happens, but how it is treated by other characters. For example, had Cloud and company not been sad about Aeris' death, the event would have seemed a lot less dark than it was portrayed in the game, despite the actual event not changing. Would that be considered a change in subject, or in ambiance? It can be hard to say.

Regardless of that, the fact is, the best scene-writers always utilize both. Ambiance is can be every bit as important as the subject being dealt with. Though they will not always be used in a single unified way (every death scene is not accompanied by shadows and sad music), they are always planned out if you want the scene to have the right meaning. The wrong ambience can destroy a scene completely or totally change how it is portrayed, and to think that you can separate that from the subject is foolish.

Thanks for the explanation.

And with that said, I still consider FFVII to have a darker storyline than most other Final Fantasies. All of them have some dark elements, but FFVII is more gritty and edgy than others.

While I won't deny that VII did have a lot of dark subject matter and ambiance, both used very well, I wouldn't say any moreso than FFVI before it. Both excellently dark games for the series.

I've heard some people say that FFIV was the first "darker-toned" Final Fantasy. But in my opinion, when Tetsuya Nomura is the character designer, things get extra ugly in the storyline.

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Originally Posted by SuperMillionaire

I've heard some people say that FFIV was the first "darker-toned" Final Fantasy. But in my opinion, when Tetsuya Nomura is the character designer, things get extra ugly in the storyline.

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If we're counting IV as "dark" then it's definitely not the first. I'd say the first would be II. What did IV deal with that II didn't? Sacrifice? Paul immediately comes to mind, as do about half the playable roster. Betrayal? Leon, dur. Genocide? 90% of the world gets pwned by the emperor. II is actually a fairly dark game, now that I think about it.

Apparently I, III, and X are the lightest Final Fantasies. Some games are darker than others.

I wouldn't ever call X light. V was fairly lighthearted up until the end as well.

Well, what makes you say that? Tidus and company are very upbeat guys (for once, but only once, Tetsuya Nomura designed an upbeat cast).

My vote goes to Final Fantasy II.

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Originally Posted by SuperMillionaire

Well, what makes you say that? Tidus and company are very upbeat guys (for once, but only once, Tetsuya Nomura designed an upbeat cast).

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That's because Tidus didn't know what was going on.

Also, with the dark visual vs. dark story arguement, I don't think dark visuals are what you would remember about a game that makes it dark. When you think of the clones at nibleheim, you don't think "Hey, they have black cloaks, that's dark", you think, "Wow, they've lost all hope and they are mysterious and they no longer have a life outside of Sephiroth, that's dark". Although dark visuals does help make a game darker, the story is what stays in your mind, and I find FF9 to be darker.

When I said that FFVII was the darkest Final Fantasy, I meant that with both dark visuals AND dark plots.

Yes, but all you seem to be referencing is the dark visuals.