Square-Enix Confirms Layoffs, Denies Impact on MMOs

Arrrrgh that's so crazy because most of what we've gotten over the last 6 years has been FF, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts.

I know what the game is, Ouch, it's just kinda crazy that a company takes 2 years to relaunch a product that was bad at the beginning. I just see a similar thing with XIII: reusing the same resources to make the original better when all anybody wants is a sequel to Chrono Trigger or some new IPs.

I gotta agree with Bert, and not just because I'm also a massive GW2 fangirl (I'm a boy... er, a man!) That subscription model is dead. Only WoW can sustain it, and WoW is dying. Yes, GW charges you for the disc/download (who doesn't?) but GW2 has done so much to reinvent and reinvigorate the MMORPG formula that I doubt FFXIV will be able to compete, especially with subscription fees.

I know a lot of you guys want it to succeed, I do, too, but if it fails, it will be because of an overarching problem that Square has had for a long time now.

I don't think it will fail but if SE was hoping for it to surpass XI, I'm very skeptical that it will accomplish it now, even if it is actually a better game overall. I feel the whole debacle os FFXIV has pretty much crippled this title and while I'm sure they can get it to be profitable, I'm sure they will also be falling back on the XI team to keep XI going strong as well since it will be the main money maker. They also have the DQX coming up as well, so SE will be pushing several MMOs for awhile now.

To be honest though, I wouldn't actually mind if they started condensing their development teams into fewer units to save on cost. Doing the "Get To Know Your Staff" articles, I came to the conclusion that part of the problem with the series and some of the franchises is that they've split up all the talented people and made them in charge of their own department when it was the collaboration of these people that made games great. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person who would be interested in seeing Kitase and Ito working together again.

I have cautious optimism about XIV, though I would not be surprised if it didn't come up to the expectations of XI sales-wise. In terms of MMOs, Final Fantasy just isn't in everyone's first thoughts. Instead it's GW2, or WoW, or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

I know what the game is, Ouch, it's just kinda crazy that a company takes 2 years to relaunch a product that was bad at the beginning. I just see a similar thing with XIII: reusing the same resources to make the original better when all anybody wants is a sequel to Chrono Trigger or some new IPs.

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You say you know what the game is and then in the next sentence demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of what has been going on behind closed doors for the past two years. Why does it take a company two years to relaunch a product? Because they rebuilt the game. From scratch. Game engine and everything. The only resources that they've kept is concepts, but everything from character models to armor has been completely rebuilt for a new game engine. It's not "I can't believe this has taken two years," it's "I can't believe they've done all this in two years." Whether you expect it to fail or not, there's a reason that Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is getting attention in the MMORPG community: doubling down on a failed product, letting it run free for over a year, and then re-releasing what is, effectively, a new game, is completely unprecedented in the game industry and it has heads turning.

I see people complain that a subscription model system is dead, but I see just as many people lambasting disappointing free-to-play titles. There hasn't been a non-subscription game yet that's pulled the several million people away from World of Warcraft. It's clearly not the juggernaut some users want to pretend it is.

For the sake of those not playing the game: FFXIV A Realm Reborn is to FFXIV (original) what Mass Effect 2 is to Mass Effect. A sequel game in the existing universe with the option of importing your existing character.

EDIT: Actually, it could be said that FFXIV:ARR has even more difference to FFXIV than ME2 does to ME1, because the FFXIV games use different engines while ME1/ME2 use the same one. And BioWare didn't even have to make the engine, which SE did. Which makes the speed of release even more amazing!

I have to underscore what Ouch and BoB have said that it's pretty incredible that FFXIV:ARR has only taken about two years. Especially considering that they were still maintaining and improving FFXIV 1.x during most of this process.

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

I see people complain that a subscription model system is dead, but I see just as many people lambasting disappointing free-to-play titles. There hasn't been a non-subscription game yet that's pulled the several million people away from World of Warcraft. It's clearly not the juggernaut some users want to pretend it is.

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Maybe they haven't all come from WoW (atleast half of my guild has) but there are an estimated 4.5 million+ GW2 players

4.5m characters, surely? The latest records I can find show 2m copies sold, although that was admittedly back in September. But for it to outsell it's original two or three weeks by 125% since then would be an impressive feat, and if even half of those were WoW then it would decrease their population by a very significant percentage.

Still, I feel that GW2 is fairly irrelevant to the XIV state of play. Everyone raved about Rift on it's release and it sold a million copies and it's dropped significantly since then from my understanding and that's despite shifting to a free to play model. As many players as there are in other games, XIV just has to worry about itself. SE can't control other games, it can just do all it can to equal/better them.

The expected cost of XIV isn't something I see as high, so I'm not bothered. 40 characters, 8 servers, something like £6.99 a month? I forget the exact price but that's something I can easily afford and I'll probably only use one character for the most part anyway.

BoB, buy me a fancy computer to play with you guys when it comes back out. kkthx.

You're better off asking Murd, I'm the poor bastard. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bert

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

I see people complain that a subscription model system is dead, but I see just as many people lambasting disappointing free-to-play titles. There hasn't been a non-subscription game yet that's pulled the several million people away from World of Warcraft. It's clearly not the juggernaut some users want to pretend it is.

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Maybe they haven't all come from WoW (atleast half of my guild has) but there are an estimated 4.5 million+ GW2 players

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Like BoB said, none of the numbers I've seen are that high. The other question is how many of those people from WoW have actually canceled their accounts and stopped playing?

There was an update in the GW2 forums that has said blah blah blah number of accounts were banned = whatever percent of the population which worked out to be about 4 million. and it was a couple weeks old at that point.
also they had to stop selling digital copies for most of sept/oct because the servers were overloaded.

dunno how many WoW players are still around but, my guild is very active and all members from our start are still playing. we're in the 8th or 9th or so ranked server in NA.

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Originally Posted by Bert

There was an update in the GW2 forums that has said blah blah blah number of accounts were banned = whatever percent of the population which worked out to be about 4 million. and it was a couple weeks old at that point.

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I suspect this is characters rather than players, in that case. Sounds about right - an average of two characters per player.

Ok, I know that great products can come to exist purely based on rational business motivated decision making. You can calculate and use formulas and figure out the best possible way to make money and to create a product that will be successful. I know that's possible. Yes.

But I genuinely believe that great products come to fruition better when it's a labor of love. When the people involved are purposeful and set out to create something they're proud of and that they believe in. As opposed to the general, "Oh trout, we need to fix this fast because we need to make a profit NOW" feeling that I get from FFXIV. And this is a feeling I've had about the project since the beginning. It never really felt like a project that came about because a bunch of people had some really great ideas and they wanted to make it come to life. From the get go it felt like they wanted to push hard and fast to make money asap. As opposed to, "We have an awesome idea for a game, and I think people would love it" it always seemed more like, "What kind of game can we make that can make us some money?"

I do think that the original failure of the game has crippled the title to the point where ARR will never be a big success. I think ARR will do mildly well and maybe save SE financially. But nothing more than that.

I hope this is a good kick in the butt for SE. They need some more inspiration in the work that they do.

I feel badly for the people laid off right before Christmas. :(

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

The other question is how many of those people from WoW have actually canceled their accounts and stopped playing?

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Me.

The real question is how many of the million+ RIFT players went back to WoW after they dropped out or instead to one of the other countless options out there today. Then you can ask how many of the millions of GW2 players cancelled their subscriptions.

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It never really felt like a project that came about because a bunch of people had some really great ideas and they wanted to make it come to life. From the get go it felt like they wanted to push hard and fast to make money asap. As opposed to, "We have an awesome idea for a game, and I think people would love it" it always seemed more like, "What kind of game can we make that can make us some money?"

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This is the mindset behind so many games and products today and I just wish it wasn't the case.