ed quote:
If any mod's are annoyed by this can I ask that our little sidetrack be deleted and the thread not be closed please?Quote:
or something about why she is or why she isn't equal to U?
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ed quote:
If any mod's are annoyed by this can I ask that our little sidetrack be deleted and the thread not be closed please?Quote:
or something about why she is or why she isn't equal to U?
yeah go ahead guys I got it all saved to my HD
I heard that Square shut this down a long time ago, but you never know with online info.
Possible? Yeah...
Probable? Meh.
There are really only two things about this that can be argued, and both of them have other explainations:
1) Griever. Why is Ulti's gf named Griever (or whatever name you gave Squall's necklace)? Rinoa herself was the only one who heard this thing's name.
Problem with this: Ultimecia can go beyond time and possesses Rinoa at one point. She could have easily used it against Squall (as Griever is a symbol of Squall himself).
2) Ultimecia's Motives: Her final speech "Time... it will not wait..." yeah, that whole shpeal? Using GFs makes us forget certain things or people... Rinoa could have forgotten Squall. What if Squall died before Rinoa and she was torn apart by his death? She is a sorceress... perhaps she went nutso.
Problem with this: Too many "what ifs" involve that whole thing.
To your first point. Griever is never shown to be anything scary to Squall, in fact he likes it. With all that Squall has been through, and his determination not to let his emotions get the better of him, why go to all that trouble for something would probably have recieved a blink from Squall, and nothing from anyone else?
To your second. That isn't evidence you referenced, it's the theory. Just as all other explanations for Griever are theories. R=U is just one of those theories, and it comes with the most evidence from the rest of the game.
I agree, but most everything in FFVII and VIII is all speculation... so... it's a little hard to argue, but it can be done.Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
To your first point. Griever is never shown to be anything scary to Squall, in fact he likes it. With all that Squall has been through, and his determination not to let his emotions get the better of him, why go to all that trouble for something would probably have recieved a blink from Squall, and nothing from anyone else?
To your second. That isn't evidence you referenced, it's the theory. Just as all other explanations for Griever are theories. R=U is just one of those theories, and it comes with the most evidence from the rest of the game.
But, I never said I agreed with those points, those are just the most commonly used points ever. ^^ I don't know if I believe or disbelieve R=U theory. Like I said, it's very iffy and I don't really go for that. I suppose it is possible, I mean, it is Square... but I just have a hard time thinking that it's possible. ^^
I know, I apologise, I should know to tread carefully with wording when it comes to posting an R=U post.
I know R=U isn't proven, but I do think it is more likely than a lot of people give it credit for. If I see an arguement I disagree with or do not feel is the whole story I reply to it as I want R=U to at least be fairly criticised.
My bad though I should have put a disclaimer on that, actually from now on can people just take anything I say in here as following my above statement unless I say otherwise. Thanksadoodle.
OH I HOPE ITS TRUE BECAUSE I LOVE RINOA AND I CAN MAKE HER GOOD SHE ISNT EVIL NOT DEAD I LOVE YOU RINOA YOU ARE LIKE DARTH VADER I KNOW THERE IS STILL GOOD *CRIES*
Lol,heres the thing that makes me not believeQuote:
Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
I know, I apologise, I should know to tread carefully with wording when it comes to posting an R=U post.
I know R=U isn't proven, but I do think it is more likely than a lot of people give it credit for. If I see an arguement I disagree with or do not feel is the whole story I reply to it as I want R=U to at least be fairly criticised.
My bad though I should have put a disclaimer on that, actually from now on can people just take anything I say in here as following my above statement unless I say otherwise. Thanksadoodle.
Where in the entire ff8 world there was there mentioned sorceresses have a long life-span?
Nowhere.Dont give me that edea-looks-the-same-after-aging-thing
Laguna team looks exactly the same,as does dr.Odine
Ok, I found this from an old R=U thread (yep this goes a looong way back...). I don't remember who posted it so I can't give any credit to him/her. Anyway, here goes:
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I strongly believe rinoa and ultimecia are the same person (ultimecia is rinoa, rinoa is ultimecia). the facts stated below show why i believe it to be true.
All of the below facts are facts, however they are not conclusive proof the theory is true, and it will never be 100% proven unless square comment on it.
Fact 1: I believe that sorceresses do not age. Why? because it never in the whole game speaks of any sorceresses dying. It speaks of adel being from the far past, yet she is still alive. Also, present day Cid looks a lot older than present day Edea. It is possible Cid was as young as Edea looks when Edea recieved her powers, making Cid age but not Edea.
If it is true sorceresses do not age, Rinoa, being a sorceress could live on and become ultimecia.
Fact 2: It is stated in the game that in order for a person to become a sorceress, a dying sorceress must pass her powers onto them, in order to die in peace.
However Rinoa does not become a sorceress in this way. She becomes a sorceress after you have fought Edea in Galbadia Garden. True you have to beat Edea, but shes not dying, nor does she die, it is never explained how Rinoa became a sorceress.
Fact 3: Now I know what you're thinking, why would Ultimecia want to kill Squall if she's Rinoa? Well there are many indications why. I believe what happened to Rinoa was, she aged and Squall didn't, and eventually he died and she lived on. Unable to take the pain she became evil. It might sound a bit wayward but read this quote from Ultimecia just before she dies:
"Reflect on your..."
"Childhood..."
"Your sensation..."
"Your words..."
"Your emotions..."
"Time..."
"It will not wait..."
"No matter..."
"...how hard you hold on"
"It escapes you..."
Time will not wait, no matter how hard you hold on it escapes you? This backs up my theory of Squall dying. She wanted to hold onto him but he died.
Fact 4: On disc 3, Squall says to Rinoa at the field next to the orphanage "I'll be here waiting for you i promise..etc..." and suddenly the whole intro makes sense.
Now is it just a coinsidence that Ultimecia's castle is placed EXACTLY next to this? You have to ask yourself, Why the hell would Ultimecia park her castle there when she has anywhere in the whole world to put it? She is waiting for Squall at the field...
Fact 5: Now you might think, why would Ultimecia kill Squall when you fight her at the end, surely this is what she'd have wanted, to be reunited with Squall. This is a valid point, however she does not recognise Squall is Squall, this is proven when Edea explains who she is, Squall approaches Ultimecia and she says "who are you!?" (or something along those lines).
Fact 6: Now this is a big indication that its true: Rinoa 'borrows' Squall's Griever Ring, yes she does get Zell to make a copy, but she never gives Squall his back, this is proven at the field when Rinoa says "I have this dream, I get all dressed up and put on your ring... etc...".
Just before you enter Galbadia Garden, you get to name the ring, (The default is Griever).
Ultimecia has a GF.......called Griever, (or whatever you name the ring). If you remember, you get Doomtrain out of Solomons Ring.
Its possible Greiver is gained from Squall's ring, which Ultimecia would have if she is Rinoa.
Fact 7: Ultimecia has black wings, Rinoa has white wings. There is a lot of emphasis placed on Rinoa's wings (on her costume, and limit). Black = Evil, White = Good. It would be a natural progression. That is backed up by these shots taken from the ending. It appears rinoa's wings are changing from white to black.
Fact 8: There are 3 FMV shots of Ultimecia in the game, all are at the ending, and last less than 1/10th of a second each, barely visible (did you notice them?). Why would Square go to all the trouble of making the FMV if no one were to see it? Square aren't stupid, they wouldn't waste time and money for nothing.
Fact 9, the biggest: Correct me if I'm wrong but Ultimecia and Rinoa have EXACTLY the same eyes, nose, mouth, face shape and hair parting point.
Just a coinsidence?
As stated before, all of the above are FACTS, however none of these prove the theory 100% but just ask yourself which is most likely:
This is a coinsidence
Or Square, being the geniuses they are, planned this....?
******************
That's it. I find those facts pretty strong...
Just wanna add to that, Rinoa didn't just become evil as a thing. It's stated clearly without a knight Sorceresses are at the risk of becoming evil and being taken over by magic.
Also I doubt Squall's ring is like Doomtrain's, it is possible and would follow in the stupid coincidence's theme of the game.
Actually I had a thought on that. The stupid coincidences actually can be sort of explained through R=U. Remember the game is based a lot on time loops.
Off the top of my head there's two.
The orphanage history. Without this knowledge, the group would never have realised that Edea was matron which would eventually lead to Rinoa not becoming a Sorceress, which would mean no Ultimecia, which would mean no trip to Trabia, no Edea getting powers and so on.
The group HAD to be connected otherwise Ultimecia would never have existed and hence a totally different time-line would have occurred.
Rinoa and Squall surviving in space. Now this is just an insane coincidence that they found the Ragnorok, I mean more than lottery winning.
Now if they'd died, there would have been no Ulti, which would mean they never would have went to space, and never been in danger to begin.
So they HAD to survive or the timelines would have been completely different.
I just thought those so I dunno what people will think of them.
There is a lot of decent evidence in that post. I'd forgotten that Ultimecia's castle was in the flower field. Isn't it also weird that in the ending, Rinoa finds Squall and they pop up in that field?
I dunno... I'm definitely not leaving it out of the question... but... yeah.
They promised to meet there, after Rinoa had that prophetic nightmare about being separated from Squall. When that dream came true, they both knew where to go to find each other.Quote:
Isn't it also weird that in the ending, Rinoa finds Squall and they pop up in that field?
Yeah, but also the fact that Ultimecia's castle is there in the future, too? I dunno... Square tweaks my brain sometimes. >D
Did Square ever give any official info on the subject? 'Cause I think they did give some on the (SPOILER) Squall-being-Laguna's-son subject at some point.
(SPOILER)Squall is Laguna's son... that was pretty easy to figure out. Especially with (SPOILER)Kiros' comment on how he looks more like his mother... and Raine in the ending... and they do mention that Raine died... I forgot how, but I think it had something to do with Laguna going after Ellone in Esthar.
However, like I said, an administrater from FFO said that Square officially said that R does not = U... then again, that's FFO... probably trying to get rid of those threads completely...
I think that there is a lot of evidence supporting the R=U theory, but it's just that, a theory.