Good. Then I'm not crazy. Or at least I'm not the only one that's crazy...
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Good. Then I'm not crazy. Or at least I'm not the only one that's crazy...
(SPOILER)
RED DIARY - AUGUST 7
No. 1...Ten heart...
No. 2...Ten...
No. 3...Ten hearts...
No. 4...Ten hearts Steve Garl...
No. 5...Ten...
No. 6...Ten heart...
No. 7...Ten hearts Billy Locane
No. 8...Ten hearts Miriam Locane
No. 9...Ten hearts
No. 10...Ten...
No. 11...Assumption Walter Sullivan
No. 12...Void...
No. 13...Darkness
No. 14...Gloom...
No. 15...Despair of Joseph Schreiber
No. 16...Temptation Cynthia Velasquez
No. 17...Source Jasper Gein
No. 18...Watchfulness Andrew DeSalvo
No. 19...Chaos Richard Braintree
No. 20...Mother Eileen Galvin
No. 21...Wisdom Henry Townshend
August 7
There are plenty of spaces in there that could be the bartender, but, I'm assuming this :
Walter Sullivan was a living serial killer before his holy assumption, obviously, so I don't think the bartender was any of Sacrament 1-10, personally I think he may be void. Considering how void is like a hole, and the bartender saw a hole when he was in dark Silent Hill.
At least, that could work anyway, since the 21 Sacraments are for the Descent of the Holy Mother, or the Descent of the Devil, which links back to Dahlia using Alyssa as the mother of Samael and that the Wish House cult believed in summoning the Holy Mother. So, I certainly think that Silent Hill 2 would most likely be related. Maybe even the summoning of people to Silent Hill by and for their sins could be some way that Walter was trying to find more people to fit his 21 Sacraments? Or perhaps, we could assume that the true ending of Silent Hill 2 is the Rebirth ending, and that James' summoning allows Walter to move on and find new people for his sacrament list? Though, I admit that the last one is rather a leap...
EDIT : I just found this looking in another document in SH4, here's the important excerpt :
""Descent of the Holy Mother
--The 21 Sacraments"
The First Sign
And God said,
At the time of fullness, cleanse the world with my rage.
Gather forth the White Oil, the Black Cup and the Blood of the Ten
Sinners.
Prepare for the Ritual of the Holy Assumption.
The Second Sign
And God said,
Offer the Blood of the Ten Sinners and the White Oil.
Be then released from the bonds of the flesh, and gain the Power of
Heaven.
From the Darkness and Void, bring forth Gloom,
and gird thyself with Despair for the Giver of Wisdom."
And you can match this with the Rebirth ending from SH2, where you require the White Chism (white oil) and Obsidian Goblet (blood of ten sinners?), and the two books of Lost Memory and Crimson Ceremony.
Since pre-Silent Hill 2, Walter has already killed the "ten sinners" or the "ten hearts" as they are referred to in the list of Sacraments, and then it was followed by his own Holy Assumption and "suicide". Two years after that, another body was found, 12/21 - Void. Now, if we think that when James reaches Silent Hill, it's two years after Walter has commited the Holy Assumption of himself and he's already killed 12/21 the bartender of Neely's bar, but Walter is trapped in Silent Hill, then James could be the one who frees him.
Or in fact, an even bigger stretch, could James be 13/21? The sacrament of Darkness? In three out of four endings, we see no evidence of James leaving Silent Hill, he could have stayed, died and become the 13th sacrament.
But yes, too much of a stretch, and again, too much thinking into things >_<
(SPOILER)No, I recall a site where all save one of Walter's victims were listed, and that one of them was a bartender...I found this site humming around the SH4 forum in Gamefaqs.
Gee, it would be nice to notice the rest of us when you write spoilers from SH4. :/
That's why we MARK them as spoilers.
It's fairly obvious that there are going to be SH2 spoilers, so we don't bother to mark them, anything that isn't SH2 is marked.
And Mr. Guess :
(SPOILER)I do think that the bartender may be one of his victims, heck I even suggested one that he could be, so I do follow your theory, but I'd love to see the site with the list of the victims so I could see if I'm right or not, but I'm just going on what it says in the memos in the game for now, so I assume he's 12/21, or maybe 13/21
Well, how am I supposed to know that? Might as well be spoilers from SH3, SH1 or Britney's Dance Beat for all I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindy
When it comes down to what you've been discussing, I think you've pretty much summed up SH2. And all those connections between SH2 and SH4 are really interesting. I've nearly finished SH4, so I'm quite into the story. Haven't seen the ending yet though. Oh and Pyramid Head was probably put in to represent James himself. Y'know, since he executed his wife. Hmm. And Pyramid head executed Maria. Looks like it happened again, only with pyramid head representing James and Maria representing Mary.
And the ghosts in SH4 are far more annoying than Pyramid Head. :mad2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindy
Or fer sure. I'll try and find it here. And sorry Lev...
Don't worry about it.
I think I found where I got the list of victims from. Try www.translatedmemories.com
I will confess, it didn't work for me when I checked, but maybe it's just me...
Be forewarned. SH4 Spoilers lurk within!
It's awkward, because there are so many things that Pyramid head COULD be, that I don't think we'll ever know which one is right.
It could be, as has been said, a representation of James himself, or a representation of his guilt and his wish to be punished. It could be a projection of Samael and/or (SPOILER)Walter Sullivan, or could be the Priest of Valtiel that Seifer suggested.
BUT, I'd like to point out this :
Pyramid Head doesn't just punish and try to execute James, think about the first scene where you see him, he's 'raping' those marionettes in the apartment room, and wherever you go he kills everything in his path, not just tries to kill James.
NOW, that could mean even more evidence that he's a representation of James, if you think about it, because James' sin was his abhorrence of ugliness, and since all the enemies are considered ugly then Pyramid Head could be doing what James would do, perhaps.
On a slightly off topic thing, I have to ask...
Spear Pyramid Head vs Great Knife Pyramid Head?
Tough Call. The Great Knife is stronger...an overhead slash killing pretty much anything, but the spear is faster.
However, seeing as I beat TWO spear wielding with the Great Knife, I'll go with the Great Knife.
On that note, my main concern with Pyramid Head being James is that when James killed Mary, it was more merciful in my eyes. Pyramid Head is ruthless, merciless....I truly believe he's more like a manifestation of James' CONSCIENCE. Note at the end. "I was weak. I needed someone to punish me." He then proceeded to whup two of the creatures he couldn't even dent even moments before. My selief is that at that point, he finally forgave himself...even to a small degree.
"I was weak. I needed someone to punish me."
Would that be why the Pyramid heads sort of...execute themselves after you've defeated them? Or is it something to do with Samael, and Metatron(if that isn't the right name, sorry. I'm rusty)?
:D
Hmmm...I read a theory like that. In it, Pyramid Head is a creature of Samael, and as such is bound to punish only the sinners (Reason why Laura never got harmed). But when James Redeemed himself, and faced his sins, the Pyramid Heads were vulnerable, and ultimately committed suicide, as James began to shift to Metatron's protection. Reader's Digest Version.
The siren.
Remember the siren? It plays after you beat the pyramid heads, it plays when pyramid head is called away from fighting James in the apartments, it plays when the world shifts from dark to light world in Silent Hill after Harry defeats a boss, it plays (SPOILER)whenever Henry enters a world for the first time in SH4
The siren heralds the calling away of evil, when it's job is done in, at least, the first two Silent Hill games.
Pyramid Head's job is done, they're called away, in the case of the last confrontation, through their suicide.
I was thinking (Great thing about my job. Loooot's of time to think. Good to see I out it to good use, no?)
I think it's somewhat innaccurate to say that Silent Hill...the Silent Hill James is in is completely evil. I mean even in the darkest of places, there is some light. Even if it's vague splinters, but there is light. I think that represents the duality of James' choice. A also think it reflects the motivation for what summoned the sinner there in the first place.
You only see Eddie in the dark. Thus his is his sin. The darkness of his soul.
Angela is always seen either in the mist, or light (Remember, even in the dark places, where she is is usually pretty well lit. Unless I'm mistaken, that is.) Thusly, her motivation is moreover her guilt, rather than her sin (Provided she really did kill her father, rather than, say her mother killing him to protect her daughter...)
James pops between the Mist and Darkness. Thus his motivation is a combination of the two. Both his sin, and his own guilt.
Finally, I think Silent Hill and Pyramid Head both represent James' masochistic nature. This is very well summed up by James "I needed someone to punish me..." quote. But why does he defend himself? Why does he conjure up weapons? The reason is twofold.
1.) James is, for the most part, not suicidal. And note. A way to force the In Water ending is to suffer a great deal of damage, and maintain low health.
2.) James probably didn't even realize he was inventing these things. Thus he responded as one would expect being faced with monstrosities trying to kill you.