You can't say the availability of weapons doesn't play a part.
IMO, the only people who should have the right to own a weapon is those who hunt.
Having a gun in your home will not make it safer.
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You can't say the availability of weapons doesn't play a part.
IMO, the only people who should have the right to own a weapon is those who hunt.
Having a gun in your home will not make it safer.
I am not so sure of that... guns in a sense can act as a type of security system.. just as dogs can. If a criminal knows you have many dogs, the criminal is more likely to go elsewhere. A guard dog is considered as dangerous if not more dangerous then a loaded gun.. so now we can not have dogs?Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgen
Basically I find it absurb.. yes we need to keep guns away from those who will misuse them... but we shouldn't deny them to hte general public.
How likely is it that the person who breaks in to someone's house knows exactly how many guns the victim has?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShunNakamura
Plus, if you're home when someone breaks into your house,
do you think you're safer if you walk up to the burgular with a loaded gun,
then if you stay in bed or wherever you might be.
A dog is never more dangerous then a gun and I do not believe that
people who train their dogs to attack people should be allowed to have dogs.
In most countries in Europe there are nowhere near as many guns circulating
and there are also nowhere near as many gun related crimes here.
Handing out tools of murder to everyone is not the most effective way to prevent people from killing eachother.
Killing is the purpose of a gun and that's what it will be used for.
I believe that all people should have the right to own a gun. (And not jsut a handgun, assault rifles as well.) This is because if civilians have easy access to military equipment, the people will have an easier time revolting against the government if the government were to ever step out of line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
well that aint' exactly why I think people should be allowed guns... although it is a valid point... I just never really thought about... and haven't you ever heard of the legendary "peaceful revolution"... wait.. one has never happened has it?(this is just a quick run through.. .but I think all revolutions had some violence on at least one end).
As for owning a handgun or rifle in the house and the criminal knowing.. I guess it depends on where you live and who the criminal is. Just about everyone in my town knows who has a gun and who doesn't, so a criminal here is more likely to know.
As for dogs... Ummm... They are extremly dangerous, particually when trained. Some of those things are fast... true if you had a handgun or rifle you could easily take it out at a range before it got to you... but if it gets to you, you could easily be dead.
And me.. I personally would shoot Mr. burgler.. .after all he broke in, he broke the law, and I was defending myself. I would probably feel likeafterwards, but better him then me. Not to mention I wouldn't be afraid to shoot him through a door or something if he was entering the room I was in... anyone with any reason to be there would either knock or call out.
and one more disclaimer... I put guns that aren't neccesarily as leathal in the same boat.. basically tranq guns. that is what I personally want to own.. a big old tranq shooter... I would just hope it puts them out quick enough that I don't get shot... and even if I did get shot.. at least I was defending my own.
Tranqs wouldn't put a person down instantly like they do in the movies, unless it's extremely high powered, then it'd probably kill 'em anyway, it just wouldn't be instant. Plus, they're inaccurate as hell.
Most people don't know about this... There's at least one county in Florida that requires ALL of its residencies to possess firearms, within the home. Houses, apartments, whatever, they gotta have a gun of some sort. Every one of 'em. And do you know what happened when that particular law was passed? The home invasion and violent crime rates in that particular county plummetted, and rose in all its surrounding counties. Because nobody wants to rob a house when they know somebody's got a gun in there.
I adhere to the fact that only in extremely rare instances are violent crimes committed with firearms that are registered to the suspect. Which means more gun control laws won't help anything. Enforce the laws we do have, and try to get weapons off the STREETS, not out of the hands of law-abiding citizens.
Change positions for a minute. You're a burgalar. You got two houses, late at night, both are occupied but the people are sleeping. Which one do you choose--the pansy with a baseball bat in his closet and a butcher knife in the kitchen, or the guy with half an arsenal? You'd choose the weaker of the two defenses, obviously. So you go in, and surprise surprise, he's awake waiting for you with a pistol in his hand anyway. Do you try to assault him, tie him up and steal all his crap like you had originally planned, or run like hell and hope he don't pop a cap in yo ass? Or if you're the homeowner, would you rather somebody come into your house and look down the muzzle of a 12-gauge, or would you want to come after him with a rolling pin? And don't try to say "well the robber wouldn't hurt anybody, he just wants to rob me blind and get away so he can buy bread for his family."
By the way, did I mention that more people are killed every year in car crashes than are killed by guns? Many times more? Guess those evil cars, gotta take 'em away from everybody.
Yes I know tranqs don't put people out right away.. but it should at least mess wiht there aim.. adn I can go run and hide... as for inaccuracy I didn't know about that.. also with a high powered tranq they at least have more of a chance then surviving a bulllet to the head or heart(unless they are wearing a bullet proof vest and even then it may punch through).
Also with EVERYONE having a gun it may not a super differenece.. it would likely go down but it woudln't stop it.. if I were desperate I would still try it.. but it would likely stop those who just do it for "kicks"(if people even do that anymore(i think they might.. I have heard freinds discusing such stuff.. although they only talk about doing it to each other.. sometimes surprises the parents though).)
As for cars... bah we need to make sure only responsible people get them.. that or do them with computers.computers would mandate certian laws... such as making sure you stop for a stop sign.. or keep speed limits.. and show maps... I hear there is actually some development money going into such systems.. although they won't have anywhere near the power to prevent accidents.. but it may make less likely. I beilieve the computer just give a warning light or sound when you aren't abiding.. and perhaps if law allows it they could send citations to the police.
Unfortunatly any network the computer was on would allow it to be tampered with... leaving room for hackers to REALLY cause trouble.. so the cars could not be networked, I wouldn't even trust a "secure" network for such endeavers.
Tranqs are indeed notorously inaccurate (ask anyone with the Park Service who tags animals, and see how fun it is to shoot what's essentially a modified BB-gun at an animal that can kill you without trying hard), and more importantly the drugs don't do anything until they reach the heart and the brain. Which means if you're shot with one you have at least a few seconds to react--that's enough to empty a clip, beat a skull in with a stick, or stab someone half a dozen times. If I didn't have a gun, a tranq-gun would probably be my very last choice in self-defense.
Moreover, there's two other issues with shooting an intruder. One is that gunshots are not nearly as deadly as they're made out to be--while certainly capable of killing someone, the vast majority of people shot do not die. The second is that if someone's breaking into my house, I don't care if they die. They took their chances, and I'd certainly rather see Dave Allen with a bullet in his skull than Polly Klauss dead.
Moreover, there is a place where everyone has a gun-Kennesaw, Georgia, where every citizen is required to own a firearm (although citizens may obtain a deferrment based on personal or religious objection). Crime is way, way down in Kennesaw.
And as for countries in Europe, cops here in the US are sending their old bullet-proof vests to England, because they desperately need them out there--even though it's illegal to own guns in England. Funny, how criminals break the law like that....
Hmm.. I would have to research tranqs a bit more.. but from what I had heard is if you take a large dose of tranqs you couldn't hit anything anyways(it would mess with your head too much). although emptying thier gun would be a problem.. I would likely shot and run..
I wish there were more ways to avoid killing someone who has a gun.. when you are defending yourself.
Anyways most of my info on tranqs comes from my mom and other poeple who have been tranqed in the hospital.. mom told me she was out before she knew what happened. Obviousally other things factor in.. that and my mom never did say exactly how long it was.. so doubtless it was a few seconds.. but since it seems to be disorienting I could hope the guy doesn't recover quick enough to unload.
Btw why can't they make tranqs more accurate?
And with our technology couldn't we make a gun that would cause incrediable disturbance(perhaps electrical?) that would temporaly or permently paralyze someone? I would still rather paralyze someone then kill them.
Rather paralyze somebody than kill them? Shoot low.
In all actuality, I believe it's something like 3% of gunshot wounds are fatal. Just like The Redneck said, the vast majority of gunshot victims do not die.
Your info on tranqs, although somewhat accurate, is out of context. You're thinking of interveinous general anesthetic. Needle goes straight into the vein, drugs only travel a foot or two to the heart. And even then, there are usually a couple seconds before it kicks in--I've heard of people being told to count down from 10 and getting to 7. But as for being stuck with a tranq, it has to get to a blood vessel first, which would usually take a few seconds before it started kicking in and distorted the intruder's aim, vision, etc. Most likely, the guy would still have at least a good five seconds to do whatever he wanted.
Tranqs are just inaccurate by nature. They've got to have enough power to penetrate, but they've also got to have a design that won't make them fall out of who/whatever is stuck. And, they've got to be heavy, because they're carrying quite a bit of drugs in 'em.
Everybody having a gun would make a difference, but it wouldn't stop home invasion crimes entirely. If everybody used their guns, that would make it stop entirely.
Records show that the easier it is to obtain a concealed weapons permit, the lower the violent crime rate is. Nobody wants to mug a guy who's got a .45 tucked away.
Sasquatch covered most of it, but let me note on the tranq-guns...
The darts are indeed heavy, plus the load is liquid--that means that any sloshing around of the liquid inside (such as the sudden movement of being fired out of a gun) can throw the dart off-course. And while you do need a lot of power to make sure it penetrates, you also can't apply too much power, because a hypodermic needle is fairly delicate, along with the other parts to it, and you don't want the thing to break from the pressures of its movement before it even reaches its target. And because of that 'sloshing' thing, you can't 'rifle' it--you can't make the dart spin, like you could with a bullet. That spinning makes a big difference in how accurate the weapon is.
On top of that, heat will usually mess with the chemical compositioin of various drugs, so you have to use an air-gun of some sort, and there's only so much power available in them.
In addition, like Sasquatch mentioned, you'd have to not just hit what you're shooting at, but hit it in a large vein (more difficult in humans, because the major veins are often covered by clothing) and it would have to stay in for a short period of time to get the stuff into their bloodstream. With an animal, a shot in the rump will get the stuff there eventually, but when someone's trying to rape or kill you, "eventually" just ain't enough.
Thanks for the info and tranqs. I definately should have done more research, thought they were slightly more effective then that.
As for paralyze vs. kill. I value life above almost all else. If you are paralyzed you can learn to live with it, and sometimes be productive depending on how paralyzed you are. just from the waste down, you could write stories, make art, make computer programs. You can still function in society. From the neck down is much more severe, but you are at least still alive, if you don't want to live that way then take your own life, I won't do it for you unless I got no other choice. Remember it isn't our body that makes us a person, it is our mind and "spirit".
Take any highschool thats ever had bullying in it and add a nation packed to the brim with guns and these things will always be able to happen. The first thing I saw when I heard about this on the news was that he had an obsession with looking up nazi sites on the inernet. You have to hand it to the press, it didnt take them long to come up with something to blame this on besides the bullying in schools and a gun littered nation. Its exactly the same as when columbine was blamed on Marilyn Manson. And just as ridiculous.
That is true bullying in school needs to be more closely watched. doesn't happen too often where I am at(at least in my general grade lvl, I don't associate too much wiht younger kids). Mainly cause if you bully, WE(myself and several other guys who are my friends, these freinds just happen to be the biggest in the school too.) will bully you right back. Not exactly the best way to solve things.. but it generally stops and prevents things. You don't risk making the biggest angry in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Destai
But yes bullying is bad... I saw one really bad example last year or the year before last. A particular kid was being picked on out the rear by the then current seniors... whom were bigger then many of the others. I did what I could to help the guy... but in an actually fight, I would get owned... I would testify for him when teachers got involved and the "bullies" tried to de-intensify what they did. but where the real problem came in is that this kid would constantly bring it on himself... he wasn't afraid to pick fights and he had a quick temper. So he often made himself look bad in others eyes. I knew him to be human, and under lots of stress... but what I could do was limited. I would help the teachers prosecute the guilty.. but too often the teachers were willing to turn a blind eye... afterall the kid had shown himself as a trouble maker so often, that not even my testimony would help much... and I am considered a really good kid.
Anyways since those particular bullies graduated the most "bullying" that I have seen is me playing tricks on Holly... but it is in fun, she does it right back to me.. and the others of us that goof with her... She once "lost" her cell phone... heh one of my friends took it and gave it to anohter freind(who would be suspected cause he is a "good" fellow), this good fellow was supposed to give it back next period, but he forgot.. and took it home with him. Holly got her phone back that same day.. but it was funny... and Holly got even the next day
:eek:
Yes I got of topic.. good and bad memories. But bullying is bad and needs to be stopped.
Right. This schmuck was being bullied in school and nothing was done about it--this means that either he deserved it, or the school should be held responsible for not recognizing the bullying. If this kid also kept looking up nazi sites, it means his parents should be held responsible for being too damned stupid to realize their kid is doing crap like that. What the little bastard needed was a good beating, maybe he'd straighten up a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Destai
Making guns illegal won't do a damn thing. Drugs are illegal too, they're easier to find in a school than cigarettes are.
Just because you don't like guns doesn't mean they're the problem. The kid was the problem.