Flag at half-mast for Pope?

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Originally Posted by Shoden

America is a catholic country well at least thats what i was told

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The U.S. is a secular nation, and one of the major principals on which the country was founded is supposedly "seperation of church and state", which implies an absolute freedom of religion among its citizens and no religious influence in government. Frankly, this will likely never be effectively practiced, but that's acceptable, I suppose. George W. Bush, the country's leader, is of the Catholic faith and there's an obvious religious influence in his political platform. I'd imagine this is the reasoning behind the "America is a Catholic country" statements. It could also be taken as mudslinging from those who are Anti-Bush and are unhappy with the blatant impact his Catholicism has on how he does things.

The Pope undeniably had an immense amount of influence over a great many people, but so did Hitler, which is to say that those who were popular or had an impact shouldn't arbitrarily be honored. The question is whether he was a respectable man who had a positive effect on the world. Personally, I'd say the Pope was. When thinking of things he's done that I find disagreeable, I realise that it's a case where I differ in my beliefs more or less with the principles of the Catholic faith rather than his individual ideals.

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Originally Posted by Shoden

it was his religeon his belief you cannot go against your belief can you? he couldnt because he was leader of that religeon he represented that religeon he couldnt do anything to change it but hopefully the next pope will shine some light witht he condom thing

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I think Shoden actually makes a good point. Given that he is the leader of the church, his beliefs are going to be immensely deep-rooted - the church isn't going to appoint a leader that doesn't uphold their morals to the fullest extent. Relative to the general conservatism of the Catholic faith, though, John Paul II had some progressive ideas. I certainly think the church is better off as a result of his time as Pope.

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The U.S. is a secular nation, and one of the major principals on which the country was founded is supposedly "seperation of church and state", which implies an absolute freedom of religion among its citizens and no religious influence in government.

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I'd just like to point out that the entire bolded part of the above quote is false.

The only mentioning of religion in the Constitution is in the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment: "the government shall make no laws that either endorse or exclude religion" or something very similar. Everything else is PC bull. The "seperation of church and state" is a myth, coined sometime in the past few decades.

Whether the Pope did mostly good or bad, whether he's too religious to be acknowledged by the American government or not... it's just some flags down for a couple of days or something. I, personally, could not care less.

Then again, I've been just on this rush towards ignoring everyone's differences lately due to... everything around me. So maybe I'll change my mind. But the first mentioning of "reserved for Americans blah blah" brought back my rush of annoyance and angered my face.

In honor of the Pope they should make two statues: One for people to visit and bow to, and the other for people to pee on. That way everyone will be happy. Until one of the one's peeing realizes he wants to be able to pee on the other statue, and then we can have a war about it where the heathens drop condoms on those other types and they scream and they can all go to Hell together where they will have a chance meeting with the Pope as he's heading out for a meeting with the Director of Fire Poking in the Catholic not-as-great-as-you-thought-when-you-were-alive District but that wont matter to me because I will still be alive because Christians believe in propor condom use and going to Heaven which is why we are the superior race and are looking forward to the occurance of the afformentioned events.

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George W. Bush, the country's leader, is of the Catholic faith and there's an obvious religious influence in his political platform.

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That is completely, one hundred percent false.


And that is, of course sarcasm on your part, Shlup. Right?

Which part?

Eh, Bush is most definately NOT Roman Catholic. There's only been one Catholic Presdent....and he got shot in Dallas.

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

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George W. Bush, the country's leader, is of the Catholic faith and there's an obvious religious influence in his political platform.

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That is completely, one hundred percent false.

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...what? How is that false? Are you saying his anti-gay marriage platform isn't influenced by his personal religious beliefs?

EDIT: I meant the part about the influence; not the part about Catholicism. :p

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And that is, of course sarcasm on your part, Shlup. Right?

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I doubt it. Shlup likes the idea of peeing on things. :rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by Shlup

Which part?

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Originally Posted by Shlup

In honor of the Pope they should make two statues: One for people to visit and bow to, and the other for people to pee on. That way everyone will be happy. Until one of the one's peeing realizes he wants to be able to pee on the other statue, and then we can have a war about it where the heathens drop condoms on those other types and they scream and they can all go to Hell together where they will have a chance meeting with the Pope as he's heading out for a meeting with the Director of Fire Poking in the Catholic not-as-great-as-you-thought-when-you-were-alive District but that wont matter to me because I will still be alive because Christians believe in propor condom use and going to Heaven which is why we are the superior race and are looking forward to the occurance of the afformentioned events.

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That part.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

...what? How is that false? Are you saying his anti-gay marriage platform isn't influenced by his personal religious beliefs?

EDIT: I meant the part about the influence; not the part about Catholicism.

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Yes, I was talking about the part where you had said "Bush is of the Catholic faith". That would be a false statement, but I have no doubt that Bush is influenced by his religious beliefs. Because he is. (However, it's because of his religious beliefs that Karl Rove decided to make him the President. It's no secret that the republicans are claiming the religious moral highground for the sole purpose of getting votes. I doubt Karl Rove even believes in god.)

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

That part.

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I'm afraid I don't get your meaning.

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Originally Posted by Shulup.

they scream and they can all go to Hell together where they will have a chance meeting with the Pope as he's heading out for a meeting with the Director of Fire Poking in the Catholic not-as-great-as-you-thought-when-you-were-alive District but that wont matter to me because I will still be alive because Christians believe in propor condom use and going to Heaven which is why we are the superior race and are looking forward to the occurance of the afformentioned events.

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How 'bout just that part then?

Don't mock my beliefs! *pees on you*

So, anyway, the Pope is cool. Everyone has flaws, except for those other people who didn't but they died too so whatever, but John Paul II didn't have that many flaws, and he was good looking.

Here in Portugal in my school we also have it... I think is good...

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

That is completely, one hundred percent false.

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I know that, silly. I was just testing you.

Posting in a thread about the leader of the Catholic church + in response to Shoden's statement about a Catholic America + posting late at night while on four hours of sleep = me inadvertently interchanging Catholicism and Christianity as being synonyms. Just ignore that part.

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Originally Posted by Sepho

I know that, silly. I was just testing you.

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ofc you were :rolleyes2

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The Pope was a great human being. He did more good for people than almost any individual that was ever honored by flying the flag at half. He DESERVED the honor, he spent a lifetime dedicated to the helping of others...

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And he has also caused many people to be hated. homosexuals for instance were declared a part of the ideology of evil. The man was not helpful to the world at all. He told others how to run their lives, was close minded, and above all else, feeble. In his last 6-7 years as pope, all he did was read statements made by the Council of Cardinals, because in the end, he has no real power after his health reaches a certain stage. That is because he is thought to be incapable of making rational and clear ideas for the church itself.

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America is a catholic country

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America was founded by separatists fleeing the church.

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I agree that the pope did good, but he did a lot of bad too.

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*concur*



Though, I don't mind the flags being lowered, I think, because he is not someone who was from the United States, that it should be lowered for a day. no more. no less...

And let's be honest, this could go on for another week or so... Reagan's half mast stopped about 3 weeks after he died. Respect is one thing, sometimes, we overdue it.