Contempory FF games: Over criticised?

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05-22-2005, 05:45 AM
Ffgrandmaster

Don't get me wrong I'm a big FF fan but I could see how some people hate each FF.
Each person has a different taste in video games, but they don't admit it and go with the crowd, thats why alot of people hate FF8. It was the first of its kind able to be criticized because it was different than the others, so everyone criticized it because everyone else did.
As for the people who only like their Final Fanatsy and not the others, they think they are all the same. I can't believe I am saying this but I actually could see why people think all FFs are all the same. If you really think about it in their shoes (Not really an FF fan) you can see how they think they are all the same. If you really pay attention you will notice... you pretty much keep fighting dieing and exploring until you fight the final boss.
Sometimes people don't play the game for its story (Such as X-2), they just play it cause they find a cool lookin character that acts like them, or they have the same name or something else. By the way FF1 is crap... all you have to do is just keep hitting fight and occaisonally healing, it has no story, no actual effective battle comands as its easier to just hit fight and potion, and all the bosses are the same, they have 1-2 single attacks and they all have a powerful group attack, the only excption is Chaos as he can heal himself.
FF2 is O.K.
Never played the real 3.
FF4 actually introduced the first real story.
Never played FF5.
Now here we go.. FF6 (Or as I have it FF3) This was THE best game of its time and still is... It really introduced the first Enemy with a pourpose (Kefka) Side quests. And halfway through you pretty much restart the game. It has good development skills as you learn magic through espers. Although this game does have its criticizm what game dosn't.
FF7 I have no comment as I was neutral with this game. But people like it because it was the first non flat FF, and the first really good battle system.
FF8 Never played it, but i am dieing to.
FF9 This game has graphics in the FMVs as good as FF10,s FMVs and it had a good story. I really don't see how it was connected to all the others.
FF10 I cannot give this game enough praise as it has actual voices!
FF10-2 People only played this because of FF10 and the hot chicks. (Not only my opinion)
FF11 Not really an FF.
FF12 People are criticizing this game because they don't anything about it and they don't want to say I want this like a kid, so they criticize what it dosn't have hoping to get it
05-23-2005, 01:05 AM
Rinoa Heartilly

In reply to ThroneofDravaris (the Topic starter)

Well said *applauds* and add a hear hear to that as well :3

Just one point I wish to make.

Tidus and Yuna were *not* annoying leads. Not in the original, japanese version anyway, where they were brilliant especially Yuna.
(In the american version my opinion wavered between like and dislike (especially where Yuna) was concerned. In the end I decided on like though. ;) )

And one opinion :p

FF X-2 --I was wary of it at first, but I like the game. So it isn't mainstraim FF, it has a nice battle system and a good story. Imho it isn't less of a FF, though I can understand why some view it so.
05-26-2005, 11:39 PM
Dr. Casey

Sorry if I'm repeating stuff, but I'm not reading through this whole topic right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

FF10 had great music. FF1…

FFI had great music.

Yeah, Final Fantasy 1 had plenty of great music. The Temple of Fiends especially was hardcore. The only flaw was that it didn't have a final boss theme.

As for the graphics, I can't think of any other game that's more charming than Final Fantasy 1, and there's enough variety to suit me (As is the case with every Final Fantasy).

Quote:

I’ve been reconsidering my final line on this post. Obviously, the main reason for my statement was spite (I noticed the poster was using a Tidus Avatar), but I’ve been wondering lately, is this statement at all true?

Final Fantasy games have always been good. I just disagree with the notion that FF9 isn't meant to be a stand-alone game, since the random FF references sprinkled around don't really have a gigantic influence.

Quote:

So is FF6 really the superior game, or does it simply look better now that FF7 has had its image tarnished by fanatics?

Well, Chrono Trigger is a load of overrated tripe. Guess people just decided there should be a second highly overrated SNES game. :P

Quote:

Firstly, people say that the game was too futuristic, which is one of the main reasons people seemed to dislike the contemporary FF games in the first place.

Which is strange, as the game seemed decidedly modern, not futuristic. Sure, there might have been a couple of futuristic elements via Esthar, but the main party acts like just a bunch of typical 90's teens.

Quote:

8. Tifa

You sure about that?

Quote:

Every character is developed t some extent (save Quina)

So... is Amarant still 2-D? :P I completely agree that Final Fantasy 9 had one of the most well-balanced cast of characters, though. Of course, during Disks 3 and 4 (Especially 4) it does become the "Zidane and Garnet Story", which kind of sucks, as it was a lot better during Disks 1 and 2 when everyone had some importance. But, alas, that usually happens in stories... they focus more on the protagonist and deuteragonist towards the end.

Quote:

Of corse, it’s different if you played these games before all the rest, but I would say that would be a minority of “Classical FF fans”.

I played the first three in 1999. OMG like yayz.

Quote:

FF8: If you’re intelligent enough to understand Juctioning, then you’ll realise that this game isn’t nearly as bad as what everyone says it is. So what if it wasn’t what you expected, at least make an attempt to enjoy it.

Oh, it's a great game story and music-wise. I just wish that it would be more like a classic Final Fantasy, because the Junction system sucks even if I kind of understand it.

But actually, I kind of get irritated at people ALWAYS bashing things that are contemporary. I have the same issue with the Phantasy Star series - quite a few people prefer Phantasy Star 1 over the vastly superior Phantasy Star 4, and some of those people have to be choosing it just because "it's the original." =P
05-27-2005, 02:48 PM
ThroneofDravaris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Quote:

8. Tifa

You sure about that?

=P

Yes, considering she was the female lead. Think of all the female protagonists since FF7 (Rinoa, Garnet, Yuna…), all of these characters were more developed than Tifa. As far as the story of FF7 is concerned, (SPOILER)she was only there to link Cloud to his past.

She was incredibly attractive though…

EDIT: Oh, I think I see the way you interpreted developed now.
LOL

P.S what the hell does yayz mean?

EDIT: I thought 'yayz' was some kind of abbreviation....
05-27-2005, 05:58 PM
rubah

Quote:

P.S what the hell does yayz mean?

"Yayz, a mystical beast found only in the forests of the Kikihotep tribe, and lives in a gragahawak tree."

or rather, its' just the word 'yay' with a z on the end.
05-28-2005, 12:41 AM
Gwelenguchenkus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

Is it so hard to believe that someone could hate FFX and dislike playing it?

Is it so hard to believe that that person also loves FF1 because it's challenging?

No, not at all.

But it IS hard to belive that people who say thing like: "OMG!!! FFX IS AWFUL!!! EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IS SO BAD!!! FF1 RULEZ AND FFX SUX SOOO MUCH!!!!111" and makes treads only to bash the game as much as possible, actually have an IQ higher than 12. :D

You still kind of missed the point though.

People can dislike FFX and not enjoy playing it, and then ENJOY playing FF1, and would RATHER play it.

That is NOT a far-fetched idea. No matter how much 'better' you think FFX is in 'evey way possible' there is still someone who does not like the sphere grid, the plot, the characters, and it's just NOT their cup of tea Totally hates the game. Yet this sam person can sit through FF1 and enjoy it. Are they insane? Thats simply a matter of opinion.

What I've trying to say is that you can analyze a game in all of its catagories and say it totally smashes another game to pieces, but that still doesn't make it better by someone else's standards.

I mean sure, mindless bashing is always a problem, but you can't always tell a person that just 'hasn't given the game a chance' as compared to someone who 'doesn't like the game and prefers an older one'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

P.S what the hell does yayz mean?

I think what you really meant to say was 'why the hell do people add a z on the end of yay?'

and to that, I would respond, I have no damn clue at all.
05-28-2005, 01:32 AM
Raistlin

All of you people criticizing the older FF games: your opinions are automatically ruled invalid by the glaringly obvious fact that EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE BEST FINAL FANTASY EVER MADE.

Ok, now, back to point:

The older games are better, not because they are older, but because they are better. I don't particularly like all of the older ones, but they are all solid RPGs. The problem with going into 3D is the tendency to over-emphasize graphics and to over-dramaticize the plot(look at FF8).

Now, to FF9. This one really irritates me because it's supposed to be a nod towards older games. Then why isn't it in 2D? Because graphics sell. When you try to sell an RPG based on looks, it's going to anger some gamers who don't give a damn about graphics, and just want a good game. However, 3D graphics doesn't automatically mean a crappy RPG. Suikoden III is in 3D and is a fantastic RPG, easily the best on the PS2. But the graphics were not meant to sell S3.

Why is FFT the best game then? All of the effort of the game development was geared towards the plot and characters, the battle system, the magic/job system, and extras(you know - the stuff that matters), and it shows by having the best plot, battle system, and magic system out of all of the FFs. Look at some of the newer FFs, and see how much focus went into each of those categories.

FF8: over-dramaticized, corny plot, irritating characters, normal battle-system, equally irritating magic system.
FF9: wanna-be classic FF, lack of serious character development, normal battle-system, decent magic system.
I haven't beaten FF10(played about a third of it, according to a friend of mine) and X-2 just makes me sick by the mere fact of its existence, therefore I won't comment on either of those.
05-28-2005, 02:27 AM
squareSOFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raistlin

All of you people criticizing the older FF games: your opinions are automatically ruled invalid by the glaringly obvious fact that EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE BEST FINAL FANTASY EVER MADE.

Ok, now, back to point:

The older games are better, not because they are older, but because they are better. I don't particularly like all of the older ones, but they are all solid RPGs. The problem with going into 3D is the tendency to over-emphasize graphics and to over-dramaticize the plot(look at FF8).

Now, to FF9. This one really irritates me because it's supposed to be a nod towards older games. Then why isn't it in 2D? Because graphics sell. When you try to sell an RPG based on looks, it's going to anger some gamers who don't give a damn about graphics, and just want a good game. However, 3D graphics doesn't automatically mean a crappy RPG. Suikoden III is in 3D and is a fantastic RPG, easily the best on the PS2. But the graphics were not meant to sell S3.

Why is FFT the best game then? All of the effort of the game development was geared towards the plot and characters, the battle system, the magic/job system, and extras(you know - the stuff that matters), and it shows by having the best plot, battle system, and magic system out of all of the FFs. Look at some of the newer FFs, and see how much focus went into each of those categories.

FF8: over-dramaticized, corny plot, irritating characters, normal battle-system, equally irritating magic system.
FF9: wanna-be classic FF, lack of serious character development, normal battle-system, decent magic system.
I haven't beaten FF10(played about a third of it, according to a friend of mine) and X-2 just makes me sick by the mere fact of its existence, therefore I won't comment on either of those.

So, for ff9 they're supposed decrease the graphics just so it can be "old-skool?" Geez, if you have the technology for something better well then USE IT!!!!!!!! As for S3 mabe the graphics werent designed to sell it but they sure as hell didn't hurt it! And if FFT is your favourite ff then fine. But dont jam it down my throat as if it's a commonly known fact. As for your ff8 comments you clearly dont understand the junctioning system well enough to appreciate it. And considering the depth and complexity you mentioned in FFT you'd think that something like that would make you happy! As for your lack of comments on X or X-2 I would politely ask you to shut up for a year or so. Quit saying that the "classics" are so much better than the new ones if you're not even close to beating either of them. Oh, and one more thing about the over-dramatized story comment. They're not over dramatized you half-wit!(well, mabe a little...) I would darn well prefer an RPG that is mabe slightly over dramatized to one like FF1( not that I have anything against it) where there is very little story and it is filled up with unoriginal battles and questionable graphics. Some of the new ones may not be all that great but we can all still appreciate them I hope. If not for the reason that they're fun, moving and the closest thing to an art in gaming then just for the reason that they are ff's and we will continue to support SE because of what they are capable of.
05-28-2005, 05:10 AM
ShunNakamura

Alrighty I have played/tried playin multiple of the ff games that I have the systems to play(basically meaning PS2 games are not valid).

In this order:

FFV
FFIV
FFVI
FFI
FFII
FFVIII
FFVII
FFT \VII and T were close to the same time.. I actually finished T first.

I actually played a couple of the other really odd ball ones.. but well I didn't like them much.. and I can't recall their names so meh.

Out of these that I have played(I really need to get IX) I prefer(in no particular order) V,VI,VII and T the best. out of these I would say I like T best then VI and VII and lastly V. VII really does give the FF games a good run.. and cause of that the best really comes down on personal preference(actually it always does but meh.)

FFT- I liked the graphics. The job system gave a lot of replayability. The story was good. The battles were slightly more challenging then most FF games(at least in the begining). Overall I would say a 9.2-10

FFVII- Alright graphics(mind I did play VIII first.. that and I have never liked polygon graphics.. I would rather have it 2d then choppy polygons.. though FFVII wasn't really choppy polygons). Excellent idea of merging the movie graphics with the game graphics. The Materia system is fun. and it has many of my favorite characters out of all FF's. Unfortunately some of the sidequests I found annoying, the game wasn't very challenging at all, etc... (btw I found monsieur weapons tough.. but I the times I tried them I never went and got alot.. not to mention I was low lvl) overall I'd give it about a 9-9.2

FFVIII- good good graphics(though I liked PE more graphic wise). I liked most of the characters.. even if they could be annoying at times, they were realistic. The Junctioning system offered limited challenges till I mastered it(took a bit longer then... lets say... the materia system). The enemies were slightly tougher then in VII(talking random encounters here) though still lacking. The story was a bit... ughh.. lets leave it wiht I have never liked Romance driven plots alot.. but it was alright. Overall I would give it a 8.8/10

FFII and FFI- never got all the way through these too.. the sound on my comp was a bit annoying and I didn't have much free time at the time.(btw my NES broke a bit before so meh... I know have to play what I have on comp). from what I have read and learned on these I woudl give them(this isn't very well informed.. obviousally) 6-7/10

FFIV- the only other one on my list that I have not completed. This game was fun throughout what I played.. seemed to have a nice plot etc... however unfortunately I think I missed something and got stuck someplace and never got back to playing... oh yes the random battles were too easy and there were too many. so over all about a 8-8.5/10

FFV-Great replayability with the job system. The characters weren't the best developed but niether were they the worst. Magic was useful to an extent. And it was just fun to play, even if the story lacked the punch of some of the newer ones. overall a 8.5/10.

FFVI- Good game. I loved how there was no main character. I loved the esper juntioning system. I loved how each character had a unique ability that at least in the begining made you weigh who you wanted in your party. True there wasn't a huge amount of development on each character.. but there was enough to keep me interested. overall I would say it places with FFT

Anyways as you all can see I like all of them to some extent. VI for me just has some sort of magic that makes me love it... even if I play V, VII and T more often.

That magic feel will differ for people but remember it is all subjective.
05-28-2005, 07:12 AM
Dr. Casey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

I think what you really meant to say was 'why the hell do people add a z on the end of yay?'

and to that, I would respond, I have no damn clue at all.

Because I just felt like sounding stupid.

And if you want to know why I felt like sounding stupid, the answer is "I just did."
05-28-2005, 08:47 AM
Gwelenguchenkus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

I think what you really meant to say was 'why the hell do people add a z on the end of yay?'

and to that, I would respond, I have no damn clue at all.

Because I just felt like sounding stupid.

And if you want to know why I felt like sounding stupid, the answer is "I just did."

And that is perfectly alright, and I respect that!
05-28-2005, 05:26 PM
ThroneofDravaris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raistlin

All of you people criticizing the older FF games: your opinions are automatically ruled invalid by the glaringly obvious fact that EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE BEST FINAL FANTASY EVER MADE.

Ok, now, back to point:

The older games are better, not because they are older, but because they are better. I don't particularly like all of the older ones, but they are all solid RPGs. The problem with going into 3D is the tendency to over-emphasize graphics and to over-dramaticize the plot(look at FF8).

Now, to FF9. This one really irritates me because it's supposed to be a nod towards older games. Then why isn't it in 2D? Because graphics sell. When you try to sell an RPG based on looks, it's going to anger some gamers who don't give a damn about graphics, and just want a good game. However, 3D graphics doesn't automatically mean a crappy RPG. Suikoden III is in 3D and is a fantastic RPG, easily the best on the PS2. But the graphics were not meant to sell S3.

Why is FFT the best game then? All of the effort of the game development was geared towards the plot and characters, the battle system, the magic/job system, and extras(you know - the stuff that matters), and it shows by having the best plot, battle system, and magic system out of all of the FFs. Look at some of the newer FFs, and see how much focus went into each of those categories.

FF8: over-dramaticized, corny plot, irritating characters, normal battle-system, equally irritating magic system.
FF9: wanna-be classic FF, lack of serious character development, normal battle-system, decent magic system.
I haven't beaten FF10(played about a third of it, according to a friend of mine) and X-2 just makes me sick by the mere fact of its existence, therefore I won't comment on either of those.

I wasn’t going to post anything, since SquareSOFT beat me to it, but then I noticed your comment on FF9, so I’ll make this brief.

People haven’t mentioned FFT because it is not applicable to the post. This post is about the over-criticism of contemporary FF games, and the way people use classical FF games as an excuse to further damage them. FFT doesn’t really fit in as either a classical or contemporary FF game, it’s something else entirely. Some may argue that FFT wasn’t really a FF game at all; the plot was perhaps closer to something out of Dragon Lance than anything in Final Fantasy, not that I’m making any inferences on the motives behind your opinion, Raistlin.

You seem to be coming up with the same monotonous statements as everyone else that didn’t like FF8, so I won’t bother pressing my point in this area.

Hmm, so you didn’t like FF9 because it had great graphics (for it’s time)? Remember, FF9 wasn’t just a game designed to be exactly like the Classical FF games. This is the statement on the back of the FF9 Greatest Hits packaging:

“…FFIX takes the best of the old and mixes it with the best of the new.”

FF9 is supposed to be the perfect mix of classical and contemporary FF games, which IMO it is. You obviously feel that people hold graphics in too high regard, which indecently, was one of my points on why classical FF fans don’t like the new FF games, despite how petty holding this P.O.V makes them. Seriously, to hate FF9 because it had better graphics than the classical games just makes you a moron.

Damn it, why can’t people understand that just because a game has great graphics, it doesn’t mean that any less attention was played to the other aspects of the game. I can understand when people insult games like Halo, but FF9?!

You didn’t even mention FF7, and you said you’ve only played about a third of 10, so does that mean the only contemporary FF games that you’ve completed are FF9 and FF8? If so, then you might want to play a few more before you blatantly state that the Classical FF games are superior.

Hmm, I’ve ranted on more than I planned. Oh well, people shouldn’t insult FF9….
05-28-2005, 07:40 PM
fire_of_avalon

I like them all :D
05-28-2005, 11:57 PM
Fire_Emblem776

well i own all the ff collection *applause*
and i love them all. I played all of then but have yet to fiish 3 my emuloatot lost my data, 8 i am lost in the castle. and 5 it is so damd hard!!
but i like them all.
i guess you grow more attached to them becuase of the references.
as you play thm inorder they become more obisoe.
X-2 wasnt bad. Square just wated to do somethibg original. Since all are sayiun bad things what are the olds of a 7 remake???
technology changes and the bar will alyas rais.
but the story will alwyas be the sane in my heart. NOn matter how better tech nology gets,
05-29-2005, 12:25 AM
Raistlin

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

People haven’t mentioned FFT because it is not applicable to the post. This post is about the over-criticism of contemporary FF games, and the way people use classical FF games as an excuse to further damage them. FFT doesn’t really fit in as either a classical or contemporary FF game, it’s something else entirely. Some may argue that FFT wasn’t really a FF game at all; the plot was perhaps closer to something out of Dragon Lance than anything in Final Fantasy, not that I’m making any inferences on the motives behind your opinion, Raistlin.

Ah, that's good - make up some irrational theory as to my obviously partial motives.
FFT was an FF game. See that "Final Fantasy" part of the title? Yes, it's very different from the others - but isn't each FF supposed to be different?
FFT was better because the plot was more in-depth and involved than any other FF, the battle system and magic system were both more in-depth and involved, and the characters and development were at least as good as any other FF out there. I'm basing my opinion on articulable logic, and you base yours on whether it "fits in" with the other FFs or not. Hmm...

Quote:

You seem to be coming up with the same monotonous statements as everyone else that didn’t like FF8, so I won’t bother pressing my point in this area.

The same reasonings are mentioned in every argument...hmm...let's see, that leaves two possibilities:

1. FF8-haters have a secret cult where they manufacture reasons to hate the game.

2. FF8 just sucks in those areas.

Quote:

Hmm, so you didn’t like FF9 because it had great graphics (for it’s time)? Remember, FF9 wasn’t just a game designed to be exactly like the Classical FF games. This is the statement on the back of the FF9 Greatest Hits packaging:

“…FFIX takes the best of the old and mixes it with the best of the new.”

FF9 is supposed to be the perfect mix of classical and contemporary FF games, which IMO it is. You obviously feel that people hold graphics in too high regard, which indecently, was one of my points on why classical FF fans don’t like the new FF games, despite how petty holding this P.O.V makes them. Seriously, to hate FF9 because it had better graphics than the classical games just makes you a moron.

I was going to Warn you, but realized instead that you putting words into my mouth just made you a moron, so it was worth it. I suggest you actually read what I said before you shove your foot down your throat further.

Quote:

Damn it, why can’t people understand that just because a game has great graphics, it doesn’t mean that any less attention was played to the other aspects of the game. I can understand when people insult games like Halo, but FF9?!

Did you completely skip the part where I said that I absolutely love Suikoden 3, including its 3D graphics(that are much better than FF8's and FF9's)? You just seem to be replying to some imaginary argument in your head rather than the things I said.

Quote:

You didn’t even mention FF7, and you said you’ve only played about a third of 10, so does that mean the only contemporary FF games that you’ve completed are FF9 and FF8? If so, then you might want to play a few more before you blatantly state that the Classical FF games are superior.

A few more? There's only two more(well, one-and-a-half, since I've played a portion of FF10).

I didn't mention FF7 because I like it, but there's no real logic behind it - I just do. I think, if you look at how much of the focus of the gameplay went into characters, magic/battle system, and plot, FF7 falls short of FF6, and well short of FFT.
Also, if you don't consider FFT contemporary, then there's no way in hell FF7 can be.

Quote:

Hmm, I’ve ranted on more than I planned. Oh well, people shouldn’t insult FF9….

...what? Why not? Because something you like is supposed to be held sacred by everyone else? I'm sorry I pointed out the obvious flaws of a game meant to make newcomers feel they were "old school" RPG players.

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