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NO actually, Dungeon's and Dragons, the Board Game, was what RPGs are based off of, and well, the Dungeon master(any random person that time you played) completely made up the story, in fact, there didn't even need to be a story, but you chose your character and devloped it how you wanted playing the Role of that character and making it your own, that's an RPGQuote:
Originally Posted by ShaunOfShadou
THE JACKEL
You never see any games these days that are just wandering dungeons and levelling though, do you? I know there was a simpler time (look at Final Fantasy 1), but RPGs have become so much more since then. There's nary an RPG nowadays that doesn't have a storyline. Even MMORPGs (good ones, anyway) have a backstory and a changing environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
You're given the role of Link in all the Zelda games and basically make his outcome your own. Whether you decide to get a full two rows of hearts or play with three, use no magic or all magic, go with brute force with sword in hand or fight strategically with arrows and bombs, outfit him with the best stuff or be a minimalist, carry 4 faeries or one blue potion, that's all up to you. However Link's legacy unfolds, all the finer details are in your hands. That's an RPG.
You've also just described Grand Theft Auto.
GTA can be argued as being an RPG, even if its ties to the genre are really weak ones. Personally, I don't think GTA's story holds enough water for it to make for an RPG, but whatever. You can argue whether or not GTA counts, but with the facts presented, I believe Zelda is still an RPG. And from the look of it, so do a lot of other people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chainsaw
Wow lets see........
FFVI
FFVII
FVIII
FIX
FFX
FF TA
FF X-2
Suikoden 3-4
Xenosagag
Earthbound
Chrono Trigger
FFIV
Super Mario RPG!!!!!!
Secret of Mana
Secret of Evermore
Illusion of Gaia
PSO
Fable
Zelda Ocarina of Time
Zelda: Link to the Past
Star Tropics!
oooo Im spent :cry:
But there is prolly a few more
BBC MICRO
The Lords of Midnight
Doomdark's Revenge
NES
Final Fantasy I
Final Fantasy II
Final Fantasy III
Dragon Warrior IV
Destiny of an Emperor
Crystalis
Legend of Zelda I
Legend of Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
SNES
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
Secret of Evermore
Chrono Trigger
Treasure of the Rudras
Bahamut Lagoon
Super Mario RPG
Soul Blazer
Illusion of Gaia
Terranigma
Breath of Fire II
Legend of Zelda III: A Link to the Past
Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals
Earthbound
7th Saga
Tales of Phantasia
GAMEBOY
Final Fantasy Legends 1
Final Fantasy Legends 2
Final Fantasy Legends 3
Final Fantasy Adventure
Legend of Zelda IV: Link's Awakening
Legend of Zelda VII: Oracle of Ages
Legend of Zelda VIII: Oracle of Seasons
GAMEBOY ADVANCE
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
Legend of Zelda X: Four Swords Adventure (It's debatable whether this is really number 10, since the LttP+FS GBA game came out BEFORE Wind Waker, but I don't count that as a new Zelda game really)
Legend of Zelda XI: The Minish Cap
Sword of Mana
Fire Emblem
N64
Legend of Zelda V: Ocarina of Time
Legend of Zelda VI: Majora's Mask
MEGADRIVE/GENESIS
Shining Force I
Shining Force II
Shining in the Darkness
Beyond Oasis
Phantasy Star II
Phantasy Star IV
Shadowrun
Landstalker
PLAYSTATION
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy IX
Chrono Cross
Xenogears
Vagrant Story
PC
Ultima I
Ultima II: Revenge of the Enchantress
Ultima III: Exodus
Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny
Ultima VI: The False Prophet
Ultima VII: Black Gate
Ultima VIII: Serpent Isle
Ultima IX: Pagan
Ultima Underground I: The Stygian Abyss
Ultima Underground II: Labyrinth of Worlds
Lands of Lore I
Lands of Lore II
Lands of Lore III
System Shock I
System Shock II
Little Big Advenure I
Little Big Adventure II
Diablo I
Diablo II
Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall
Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind
Fallout I
Fallout II
MMORPG
Final Fantasy XI
Ultima Online
Ragnarok Online
I know I've played more, but they're either from so far ago that I've forgotten, or I just didn't want to remember them XD
wow thats a lot of games
So you're saying that GTA's plotline isn't strong enough to be considered an RPG, but Zelda's is? Let's not confuse swords and sorcery with an automatic by into the realm of deep plot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunOfShadou
A medieval tale does not entail a plot with RPG depth. The Legend of Zelda has a laughably shallow plotline. One can effectively argue that the plotline is the weakest of all development aspects of the Zelda series. People see that almost everything about these games are extraordinary (not I), and so by association, they believe that since all other aspects of the game are good the plot is somehow magnificent simply by association to the game.
Proof: Look how well Ganondorf did the the GAMEFAQs villain tournament. Second place. Mind you, this wasn't GANON, the staple villain of the Zelda series, but Ganondorf Dragmire, who is not an icon, but merely a success by association that was brought to fruition by the Ocarina of Time.
I'll bet if they did a "Best VG music ever" tournament or a "Best VG storyline ever" tournament, Ocarina of Time will still place second in each.
And by the way, Metal Gear Solid, which isn't even an RPG, destroys it in terms of depth and complexity of plot. Therefore plot is not exclusive to RPGs. That's like saying good music is only exclusive to dancing games.
Zelda may have a weak story as well, but at least the adventure element makes it interesting. Unlikely hero saves princess from evil warlock and saves the world. More acceptable to RPG freaks than "mob favor, mob favor, destroy mob for other mob, rinse and repeat, the end", I think. Go to GameFAQs (which you seem to be familiar with) and count how many more serious discussion topics there are about the Zelda games than the GTA games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chainsaw
I didn't know Ganondorf had a last name. The game certainly doesn't tell you that. You must have been intrigued enough to read into some finer details of the game's concept that you claim isn't worth two in the first place. Can you tell me the names of all the women Tommy encounters in his stead? Can you tell me how Vice City ties into San Andreas in terms of story? Can you tell me the motives of the gang opposing Diaz in Vice City? Of course not, because plot in a GTA game is so horribly useless that no one wants to read past the shooting and blowing things up.
Also, Rockstar decided to replace Tommy Vercetti in San Andreas, despite his growing notorioty. I guess Tommy wasn't so important that he had to be the icon of GTA. The coming of the new guy is proof enough that GTA is all about the bang-bang-boom-boom, and all the main character is is a body through which to make it happen. If you replaced Link in a Zelda game, it wouldn't be a Zelda game at all. Gamers pick up a Zelda cartridge/disc to play as Link, not the sword he wields.
Thank you for playing.
Definitions of Role Playing Game:
http://www.rpgfan.com/editorials/old/1998/0007.html
GTA is NOT an RPG, its action, neither is Zelda, which is adventure.
pacman (not the gay one)
I love how this guy rules out games like Secret of Mana and Seiken Densetsu just because battles aren't menu-driven. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Russielloyd
Sorry, but this appears to be nothing more than an amateur perspective. I'm still sticking to my original story.
The adventure element makes it interesting because that's exactly what it is. The story is told through the exploration and adventure. Hence adventure game. It's more acceptable to RPG freaks because some people are so dogmatic in their thinking that they believe RPGs should cater exclusively to the medieval settings. I'm willing to bet that is one of the reasons the Phantasy Star series failed so miserably in the long term compared to Dragon Warrior. To me setting is setting. Unfortunately many people don't think that way, which is why the market is overrun with D&D environment clones, while kickass games like Xenogears and Xenosaga fail miserably. As far as serious discussion goes, you can blame that on demographic, not development. GTA is aimed at a much broader audience, 12 year old kids and jocks inclusive. Zelda is aimed at an audience that has somewhat of a general liking for and dedication to video games.Quote:
Zelda may have a weak story as well, but at least the adventure element makes it interesting. Unlikely hero saves princess from evil warlock and saves the world. More acceptable to RPG freaks than "mob favor, mob favor, destroy mob for other mob, rinse and repeat, the end", I think. Go to GameFAQs (which you seem to be familiar with) and count how many more serious discussion topics there are about the Zelda games than the GTA games.
I wasn't actually intrigued by the Zelda plot when I found that out. I wouldn't waste my time on it. I actually got that information from here.Quote:
I didn't know Ganondorf had a last name. The game certainly doesn't tell you that. You must have been intrigued enough to read into some finer details of the game's concept that you claim isn't worth two in the first place. Can you tell me the names of all the women Tommy encounters in his stead? Can you tell me how Vice City ties into San Andreas in terms of story? Can you tell me the motives of the gang opposing Diaz in Vice City? Of course not, because plot in a GTA game is so horribly useless that no one wants to read past the shooting and blowing things up.
Some joker had submitted false actors to the cast list of the game as a prank and was showing it off. He listed 50 Cent as the voice actor for Epona and Richard Simmons as the voice actor for Tingle. One of the listed characters was none other than Ganondorf Dragmire, and my memory took it from there. Good try though.
And last name means absolutely nothing concerning the depth of plot. The Jaquio from Ninja Gaiden's full name is something along the lines of Garan de Marideaux (it's been at least 6 years, I don't quite remember). Countess Elizabeth from Castlevania Bloodlines's full name is Elizabeth Bartley, an obvious allusion to the Hungarian Countess Elizabet Bathory.
Hell, the two Contra dudes' last names are Rizer and Bean. What do all these games have in common? Not very much plot.
And no, you're absolutely right, I can't tell you any of that information on Grand Theft Auto. I can't because it is like Zelda. Hardly any plot. I have desire to defend that game's merits, nor have I ever decided to do so in the first place. I don't like it any more than you. Like Zelda, it pretty much lacks in plot, but makes up for it in other elements.
That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be to consider reusing the Zelda characters in every game as Nintendo's complete lack of desire to develop any sort of new plotline from the game, because they know people will buy it based off it's other selling points (the adventurous gameplay and the series stability). They've already demonstrated they can sell the series without having to come up with any sort of plot at all, so why bother if that isn't what the people who play the Zelda series are after? And yes, people who play the game want to play as Link. That means they're intrigued by the story, not the plot. And you simply, absolutely cannot argue good story to be an element exclusive or prevalent in RPGs, because it just doesn't work.Quote:
Also, Rockstar decided to replace Tommy Vercetti in San Andreas, despite his growing notorioty. I guess Tommy wasn't so important that he had to be the icon of GTA. The coming of the new guy is proof enough that GTA is all about the bang-bang-boom-boom, and all the main character is is a body through which to make it happen. If you replaced Link in a Zelda game, it wouldn't be a Zelda game at all. Gamers pick up a Zelda cartridge/disc to play as Link, not the sword he wields.
Now please hold in reset while turning off power. If you don't, all the data that has been recorded up to this point may be lost.Quote:
Thank you for playing.
... Well played.
Can't we all just get along? ...... (proceeds to duck behind chair while being pelted with fruit)