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11-01-2005, 10:06 PM
herbie08

There were only 2 major political parties, yet Hitler only had 11% of the popular vote when he got elected. And yea, they probably considered it the happiest days of their lives because the times of their lives spanned WWI, the Great Depressoin, and WWII. In that case, yea, I'd think those were pretty damn good days too. And as for our debt, it's insubstantial. The American government has always been in debt, and it's no worse now in proportionality than it's ever been.

I can't believe we're even arguing about this. Look, if Bush tries to become a dictator, I'll go smurfing kill his ass, okay? I'll even be polite about it. That's why we study history, you know, so that we can learn from other people's mistakes and prevent the same things from happening over and over again.
11-01-2005, 10:09 PM
War Angel

I just love those pointless, baseless analogies between Nazism and just about anything.

"You like tomatoes! Some Nazis liked tomatoes, too! OMG, you're like the Nazis!"

Makes as about sense as a panda riding a carting car on a basketball court.
11-01-2005, 10:20 PM
FFGuevara

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbie08

There were only 2 major political parties, yet Hitler only had 11% of the popular vote when he got elected. And yea, they probably considered it the happiest days of their lives because the times of their lives spanned WWI, the Great Depressoin, and WWII. In that case, yea, I'd think those were pretty damn good days too. And as for our debt, it's insubstantial. The American government has always been in debt, and it's no worse now in proportionality than it's ever been.

Read that link i posted in my last post.

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I can't believe we're even arguing about this. Look, if Bush tries to become a dictator, I'll go smurfing kill his ass, okay? I'll even be polite about it.

Good luck:rolleyes2 .

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That's why we study history, you know, so that we can learn from other people's mistakes and prevent the same things from happening over and over again.

Yes but when people do nothing about it what will happen? Bush may not become a dictator for racial supremacy but he'll become a dictator for profit.
11-01-2005, 10:24 PM
Ultima Shadow

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Angel

Makes as about sense as a panda riding a carting car on a basketball court.

So... you're saying panda's don't have the right to ride carting cars on basketball courts? Well, that's debatable...

I, personally think that pandas have every right in the world to do so if they want. And judging from this picture, they seem to enjoy it:

http://www.infoservice-net.it/teto/d...panda_kart.jpg
11-01-2005, 10:35 PM
DarkLadyNyara

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The American people when they realize what bush is doing may not accept it. But what can they do at that point in time? By that point in time it'll be a Police/Military state. If they even think your against him they'd kill you. That's what they did in Germany when it became obvious Hitler was a dictator.

Thing is, the millitary doesn't exactly support the fool. And, last I checked, Germany didn't have America's history as a republic. And theres no way in hell the rest of the govt. will support him. Entirely different state of affairs.
11-01-2005, 10:37 PM
herbie08

Yea, I read your link. Interesting stuff, really, and I'm not saying any of it's wrong, but it's all just a theory when you say that the same thing can happen now, and facts can always be stacked in different ways and interpreted differently. Still, I think your fears are totally unbased and I don't see any chance of a repeat of the Nazi take over, or anything even close to that. You know what, we'll see in another two years. I'm pretty faithful that things will turn out alright; you'll see. The president has his problems, but I seriously doubt that he's anywhere near as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. Hell, I know for a fact that he's not as bad as you make him out to be.
11-01-2005, 10:39 PM
DarkLadyNyara

Besides, people do learn from history.
11-01-2005, 10:44 PM
FFGuevara

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyara

Thing is, the millitary doesn't exactly support the fool.

If that were true then they would go against his order's. Bush control's the Military and the Generals.

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And, last I checked, Germany didn't have America's history as a republic. And theres no way in hell the rest of the govt. will support him. Entirely different state of affairs.

The Republican part supports him (over 60-70% of the us govt is Republican) they might even be conspiraing with him so the US can become a 1 party dictatorship. Why is it that the Republicans are growing in power while the Democrats are getting weaker? And why is the Republican party not concerned for a 2008 condidate unlike their rivals?
11-01-2005, 10:46 PM
FFGuevara

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbie08

Yea, I read your link. Interesting stuff, really, and I'm not saying any of it's wrong, but it's all just a theory when you say that the same thing can happen now, and facts can always be stacked in different ways and interpreted differently. Still, I think your fears are totally unbased and I don't see any chance of a repeat of the Nazi take over, or anything even close to that. You know what, we'll see in another two years. I'm pretty faithful that things will turn out alright; you'll see. The president has his problems, but I seriously doubt that he's anywhere near as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. Hell, I know for a fact that he's not as bad as you make him out to be.

Agreed lets see what happens in 2 years, only time can prove theroies true.
11-01-2005, 10:49 PM
DocFrance

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyara

Thing is, the millitary doesn't exactly support the fool. And, last I checked, Germany didn't have America's history as a republic. And theres no way in hell the rest of the govt. will support him. Entirely different state of affairs.

Yeah, pretty much. He may be our Commander-in-Chief, but our ultimate loyalty lies in the people and the Constitution, not the President. In the unlikely event that the President does try to take absolute power, I guarantee that a majority of the Armed Forces would oppose him. We're not sheep.

Besides, there are many political safeguards in place to prevent such a thing from happening. But you would know that, since you're an expert on American politics, right, Guevara?

Right now, the President has around a 37% approval rating. That's at least 63% of the population that would oppose him if he tried to take over.

America is in a completely different situation than Germany was under the Weimar Republic. The American people are much more educated and poltically aware than the German people back then, and we've been a Republic for over two hundred years. It would be fallacious to claim that the exact same thing will happen as it did in Germany.

Of course, nothing I can say will change your mind. So go on, have fun trying to undermine our great nation. You're not convincing anyone.
11-01-2005, 11:05 PM
DarkLadyNyara

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If that were true then they would go against his order's.

No, they wouldn't. It's called honor, which, contrary to what some think, is important to soldiers in general. If he gave orders that were in gross violation of the constitution, (i.e. round up and execute the democratic party) then they would disobey. Not liking the president is no excuse for treason.

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The Republican part supports him (over 60-70% of the us govt is Republican) they might even be conspiraing with him so the US can become a 1 party dictatorship. Why is it that the Republicans are growing in power while the Democrats are getting weaker? And why is the Republican party not concerned for a 2008 condidate unlike their rivals?

The Republicans are gaining power because recently the Democrats have been pissing off their own base, and basically being incoherent. Congress had a Dem. majority for several decades. Doesn't mean they were trying to take over. As far as the election, we still have 2 years, and they have other things to worry about. (I cannot beleive I just defended the Republican party.)
11-01-2005, 11:10 PM
DocFrance

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Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyara

I cannot beleive I just defended the Republican party.

There, there. It happens to the best of us some times.
11-01-2005, 11:11 PM
lordblazer

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Originally Posted by Zell>Everything

I intend to join the army, but it saddens me how we're so in the pocket of the US. I think if a situation ever arose whereupon people were called to fight for or against, I would be against. The nation stands for all that is despicable. Which isn't to say individuals are in any way "evil" but as a whole, and it's government, I believe it to be the "Babylon" which Revelation speaks of. I would fight, kill and die for my beliefs.

Yeah what the United States has become.
PArtisan Parties

WEll I have a big problem with Partisan Parties because they don't leave room for Moderation. IT doesn't leave room for people to agree with two ideas without having them conflict each other.

Thats my only problem with American Politics and George Washington gave us a warning.

1)Stay out of other countries politics
2)HAve a commercial relationship with other countries.
3)Do not join any alliances.

Now come on. We have broke all three of those already and we are no longer a neutral country. We screwed ourselves over.

Anyway fighting for what you believe in is a big deal, but Cloud do you really believe in destroying America...? I mean your putting a belief int he wrong place. A place that won't show profit. What will you gain once USA is destroyed and you survived the war against them somehow?

Nothing really. Just empiness because its politics.

Now people friends families, and children. Its worth fighting for in my opinion. To be able to live a stable life without bombs going off everywhere is a good thing to fight for.

Now we aren't fighting for that. Hell the countries that never get constantly bombed are fighting for land and oil and money. ITs greed.

Anyway thats my 2 cents in.
11-01-2005, 11:19 PM
FFGuevara

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocFrance

Yeah, pretty much. He may be our Commander-in-Chief, but our ultimate loyalty lies in the people and the Constitution, not the President. In the unlikely event that the President does try to take absolute power,

And what happens when that constitution is modified to make a Authoritarian/Totalitarian state?

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I guarantee that a majority of the Armed Forces would oppose him. We're not sheep.

Hopefully

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Besides, there are many political safeguards in place to prevent such a thing from happening.But you would know that, since you're an expert on American politics, right, Guevara?

So what? Bush is already immuned to such safeguards since the majority of the senate are Republican. He has already broken the constitution with the patriot act and numberous other Authoritarian law's what would prevent him from breaking that part of the constitution?

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Right now, the President has around a 37% approval rating. That's at least 63% of the population that would oppose him if he tried to take over.

What will those people do? Nothing... like they've always done. If they couldent get off their butt's to vote him off. What will make you think they'll try to overthrow him? And by that time they'd be too scared to do anything.

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America is in a completely different situation than Germany was under the Weimar Republic. The American people are much more educated and poltically aware than the German people back then,

To say you guys are more "poltically aware" and more educated would be like calling the Victims of dictatorship stupid. If you guys were so poltically aware then idiots like Bush wouldent be in office.

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and we've been a Republic for over two hundred years. It would be fallacious to claim that the exact same thing will happen as it did in Germany.

Who cares how long you've been a Republic, it doesnt change the subject or anything about it.
11-01-2005, 11:32 PM
DarkLadyNyara

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And what happens when that constitution is modified to make a Authoritarian/Totalitarian state?

Do you have any idea how hard it is to ammend the Constitution?

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Who cares how long you've been a Republic, it doesnt change the subject or anything about it.

Actually, it does.

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So what? Bush is already immuned to such safeguards since the majority of the senate are Republican.

That doesn't mean that it will stay Republican. Not to mention, he's pissed off quite a few of them too.

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