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Actually, it is even more parsimonous to merely assume that Ellone is correct when she says "You can't change the past". This would solve the 'problem' of powers building up instantly, as well as provide a very elegant explanation to the time travelling phenomena in the game.Quote:
Parsimonious solution to all this nonsense about power build up: ULTI DID NOT GIVE ALL HER POWER TO EDEA. Thank you. That is all.
I already solved that powers thing.Quote:
Actually, it is even more parsimonous to merely assume that Ellone is correct when she says "You can't change the past". This would solve the 'problem' of powers building up instantly, as well as provide a very elegant explanation to the time travelling phenomena in the game.
So it doesnt matter you look at it as static or dynamic time.Quote:
Edeas initial powers = A
Adels powers = B and then after that Rinoa recieved Adels powers.
Rinoas powers = B
Ultimecias powers = (C) ; Her power is He life
Edeas powers after Ultimecia possess her = A + (C) = A(C).
Ultimecias and Edeas powersdo not added up because you can see there's "( )" ;boundary between their powers.So Ultimecia only use her own powers / (C)
I already PROVE that Rinoa only has Adels powers NOT Edeas.If you cant accept this truth you cant/wont find the answer.
I hope someone ask questions.
Care to explain how you get these letters, and how in hell you're making a formula? Nobody's taking you seriously yet.
It's only the matter of time and it also about someone's perspective to look at My explanations
If you are to utilize advanced vocabulary, please refrain from word misinterpretation. Arguably, the use of "parsimonious" here is incorrect. Parsimonious usually applies to frugality, especially in context of fiscal subjects. Why would you use unwonted vocabulary when arguing with someone like Viator who has proven to have a language capability not surpassing the vernacular? It only goes to confuse others and show your own vainglory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
In this case, "Insufficient" is perhaps a more proper and better choice for the word "parsimonious."
Thank you for considering this post.
-LYCHON :D
There is no such as Time Decompression in the game, they never mention that.
Squall and his party defeated Ultemica during TC, so when Ultemica is defeated... the TC didn't end, it was still processing for a short period. Because TC can't be ended in 1 sec, that sounds.. impossbile anyway. Meanwhile, Ultemica had to give her powers onto someone else (you know who). Rinoa woke Squall up and bingo, few minutes later.... the TC ended (like i said... TC alives for a short period). If Rinoa didn't wake Squall, you will know what will happen to Squall (bye bye to Squall in TC)
You tell me how Rinoa got to Squall's stone land? Squall and Rinoa have to connect together using by their strong emotions to meet each other but somehow Rinoa got to Squall's land? It should explain some things... rinoa got some nice powers
Of course Ellone can't change the past UNLESS she know you.
No, because I'm using parsimony in the scientific sense. To quote the American Heritage dictionary, "Adoption of the simplest assumption in the formulation of a theory or in the interpretation of data, especially in accordance with the rule of Ockham's razor". If you aren't accepting the static timeline, then ithe simplest assumption Ulti simply spread her power out, instead of assuming it all builds up, then creating explanations to wave away the buildup.Quote:
In this case, "Insufficient" is perhaps a more proper and better choice for the word "parsimonious."
And though you probably are correct about big words being too much for Viator here, I did not use it merely to show off.
It's not mentioned, but it is logically necessary to make the game consistent. If time did not decompress after Ultimecia's death, time in FF8 would constantly remain in a state of near compression, which is obviously not true, since the Garden Party can be seen to be quite normal. Hence time must have decompressed back to it's normal state.Quote:
There is no such as Time Decompression in the game, they never mention that.
This doesn't make sense. Ellone knew all the people she sends to the past when trying to get Laguna to go back to Raine, yet she discovered that nothing she did could change the past. I don't understand what you're trying to say here at all...Quote:
Of course Ellone can't change the past UNLESS she know you.
I agree completely. These are basically the only two reasonable explanations of the apparent build-up in powers.Quote:
If you aren't accepting the static timeline, then the simplest assumption Ulti simply spread her power out, instead of assuming it all builds up, then creating explanations to wave away the buildup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryushikaze
Perhaps. The main confusion arises from the unwonted, secondary use of the word. You applied the word parsimonious in the phrase “parsimonious solution,” which primarily denotes a solution that is frugal, penurious, or tenuous, which makes little sense in the context of your argument.
The all-new 4th edition of the American Heritage Dictionary defines parsimony primarily as follows: “unusual or excessive frugality; stinginess.” The definition I just provided is exactly what a good, practical definition should be: concise and informative. As I stated previously, the definition of parsimonious suggests that it be applied in the context of fiscal matters and although it is very possible to get away with using the word as you did, “insufficient” is probably a much better choice. Just saying, you know?
And let's not forget the famous words of W.K. Clifford: "It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for any one to believe anything up on insufficient evidence...."
Since in FFVIII there is insufficient evidence to support any of the absolute statements that Sir Bahamut, you, and Viator are making, all of your arguments are practically worthless. That is why I originally set out to prove only the plausibility and possibility of the R=U theory, not actual belief in this theory or the truth of this theory. :D
-LYCHON:D :D :D
Uh-oh. Not more rants...:(
Yet, you PHAIL'D! =DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lychon
...yeaQuote:
Originally Posted by Outer Heaven
So, basically Lychon, you're trying to deny the equally valid, and arguably more used definition of parsimony in a game of one up manship and nitpicking. The definition quoted was ALSO from the fourth edition.
Parsimony is parsimony. If something is most parsimonious- in the sense of the second definition- it is the most frugal in regards to additional terms. As a solution between the two extremes, my proposed sequence was extremely parsimonious considering given evidence.
Insufficient is not synonymous with the scientific usage of parsimony, and it is not an acceptable substitute.
Looks to me that we are trying to make something out of nothing,
STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE!
Even the game never said Time Decompression,TD happens after Ultimecia defeated.Quote:
There is no such as Time Decompression in the game, they never mention that.
TC ended after Ultimecia defeated,after She defeated what happen next is Time Decompression NOT TC.When Ultimecia give Her power to Edea that is the process of Time Decompression NOT TC,got that?Quote:
Squall and his party defeated Ultemica during TC, so when Ultemica is defeated... the TC didn't end, it was still processing for a short period. Because TC can't be ended in 1 sec, that sounds.. impossbile anyway. Meanwhile, Ultemica had to give her powers onto someone else (you know who). Rinoa woke Squall up and bingo, few minutes later.... the TC ended (like i said... TC alives for a short period). If Rinoa didn't wake Squall, you will know what will happen to Squall (bye bye to Squall in TC)
I think TD ended after Rinoa wake up Squall.
You should ask Rinoa.Quote:
You tell me how Rinoa got to Squall's stone land?
I already explain this 'build-up powers' things.Quote:
If you aren't accepting the static timeline, then the simplest assumption Ulti simply spread her power out, instead of assuming it all builds up, then creating explanations to wave away the buildup.
I agree completely. These are basically the only two reasonable explanations of the apparent build-up in powers.
I want to tell you that my explanation on second mistake has connection with fifth explanation on fifth mistake so just read them both at the same time.Quote:
Edeas initial powers = A
Adels powers = B and then after that Rinoa recieved Adels powers.
Rinoas powers = B
Ultimecias powers = (C) ; Her power is He life
Edeas powers after Ultimecia possess her = A + (C) = A(C).
Ultimecias and Edeas powersdo not added up because you can see there's "( )" ;boundary between their powers.So Ultimecia only use her own powers / (C)
I already PROVE that Rinoa only has Adels powers NOT Edeas.If you cant accept this truth you cant/wont find the answer.
So it doesnt matter you look at it as static or dynamic time.
Alright if you dont want to read all my explanation because it's too long just read this explanation.
Why Squall and Co can go through TC to the future inside Lunatic Pandora and why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic Pandora?
The answer is because Ultimecia cast TC and because of Ellones power.
No 2 is the most important part because that is the event Squall and Co go to the future.
Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.
You see when Rinoa is back to present in Lunatic Pandora Squall and Co get to Time Compression.
Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else.
Now I realized there’s somethig more about TC.Actually there’s 2 phases of TC.
The first phase is when Squall and Co go through TC and end up in Ultimecia’s Castle in future.At this phase 1 we see the effect of TC,but after Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle in future we don’t see any effect of TC again,why?It because The phase 2 is not happen yet.What I mean is this phase 2 needs TIME to happens,that’s why we don’t see any effect of TC when Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle.Ultimecia uses this phase 1 to get back to the future to possess Her own body(If you read Rev of the Truth thread,you must know what I am talking about).
So TIME between after the Phase 1 and before the Phase 2 is the time Squall and Co kill all Ultimecia’s servant.When Squall encounter Ultimecia,She said the world was
on the brink of that ever-elusive 'time compression'.That means the phase 2 is almost begin.The phase 2 begin when we fight Ultimecia at that Final Battle. That’s why we see the effect of TC.
Now I already fully explain why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic and in the Final Battle.I realized this when I remember Squall said I don't know what's going on. But since we're still here, I think we still have “some time” to finish our job.
So the right diagram is
7--------------------8-----------------------9-------10----------11
|**********************************|\*** ***********/
|**********************************|*\** **********/
|**********************************|**\* *********/
|6*********************************|***\ 13******/ 14
|\*********************************|**** \******/
|*\********************************|**** *\****/
|**\*******************************|**** **\**/
|***\2*****************************|**** ***\/
|****\*****************************|**** ** /
|*****\****************************|**** / 15
|******\ **************************|***/
5*******>1------------12-----------------| /
|******/
|*****/
|****/ 3
|***/
|**/
|*/
|/
4
* = NOTHING (I just put them to make the diagram perfect).
So actually there’s NO “*” in that diagram)
1 = Rinoa (PRESENT)
2 = The way Squall and Co go through TC
3 = The way Rinoa back to the present
4 = Young Adel (past)
5 = The way Ultimecia back to the future
6 = The commencement Room
7 = Ultimecia’s Castle (Future)
8 = Time Compression
9 = Time Decompression
10 = The way Squall go to the past (Ending Event)
11 = The Ending Event (You know what I am talking about)
12 = The way Quistis,Selphie,Irvine,Zell back to present from Time Decompression
13 = The way Rinoa end up in garden BUT still in Time Decompression
14 = Squall all alone in Time Decompression World
15 = Rinoa found Squall and after that back to the present
7 - 8 = Time after Phase 1 and before Phase 2
2,4,5,6,7 = Phase 1
8-9 = Phase 2
When Squall and Co through TC they have to arrived in Commencement Room first before they can go to Ultimecias Time and Place,why is that?
Commencement Room or you can call it Genesis Room or Genesis Space(This is only what I call it).
Squall is not only arrive at Commencement Room/Genesis Space but also in Genesis Time(This is only what I call it so don’t need to argue about this Genesis Time)
This Time (Genesis Time) and Space (Commencement Room) is the first place Squall and Co arrive in TC before Squall and Co can go to Ultimecia’s Time and Space (Center of Time Compression).
The meaning of TC is absorbing Time and Space NOT compressing Time and Space.
So when this TC/Absorption starts it always absorbs the nearest Time and Space.
Squall and Co is not in the nearest Time and Space (Center of Time Compression) when they get inside TC, they are far from nearest Time and Space (Center of Time Compression) so they need to get through this Genesis Time and Genesis Space (outside part of nearest Time and Space) first before they can enter Ultimecia’s Time and Space or you can call it the center of Time Compression.
The hardest question about Time Compression is :
Why Ultimecia needs to go to the past to perform Time Compression?
Actually this is not a question, this question was only tricked us. We were tricked by this question for a long time and we were confused by this question, why? because this is not the right question.
The right question is : HOW Ultimecia performs Time Compression?
The answer is :
Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression.
We were always tricked by the fact Ultimecia go to the past, that’s why we always think she needs to go to the past to perform Time Compression.
Ultimecia doesn’t need to go to the past to perform Time Compression She ONLY needs Ellone’s Power to perform Time Compression.
Ellone’s Power can send someone's consciousness to the past.
So Ultimecia go to the past is INEVITABLE if She wants to perform Time Compression because that is how Ellone's Power works(send someone's consciousness to the past).
Ultimecia uses Ellone’s Power when she go to the past and cast Time Compression Magic to make Time Compression happens.
Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression.
The Truth is The Process of Time Compression is The achievement of Time Compression.