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I didn't notice that you put Odin Sphere on the list. You are officially "the man". Odin Sphere is one of my favorite games of all time. I just didn't include it on my top RPGs list, since it's really more of a 2D side scroller. I've recently changed that though. :)
Haha you have no idea how many times I had to stop myself replying with an image of an internet hipster everytime Neo mentioned a game BoB hadn't played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow
This is still a thread about this list, right? Not just the Xeno games? So I can ignore all this discussion and bring up other games on the list that I would much rather talk about?
Yeah, feel free to do so. This was just an inevitable conversation that was going to happpen. :p
http://ocatell.womenpjs.com/17.jpghttp://ocatell.womenpjs.com/18.jpghttp://ocatell.womenpjs.com/19.jpghttp://ocatell.womenpjs.com/20.jpgI promise the list starts getting better.
Yeah, I agree, this discussion really needs its own thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover
Ah, Rune Factory 3. In my opinion, probably the DS's most underrated title.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
I can gush about this game for hours, but I'd like to take a moment to highlight a few things you missed.
First, the characterization. Very few people, even among those who played it, realize the depth of characterization this game has. Each character has their own traits and personalities, yes, but it's the development of those that deserves special mention. There are a dozen different marriage candidates, as you mentioned. Each has their own story and quest line leading up to the marriage. But few people realize that each has their own individual story after you marry them.
As an example, I chose to marry Raven ('cause, c'mon, Raven's totally frelling awesome). After doing her questline, exploring her secrets and insecurities, and winning her heart, we live together. And then starts the adventures of her store. And, oh my gosh, is this not absolutely adorable. While it doesn't have quests, you get an entire substory played out when you talk to her every day. Raven is, as discovered almost immediately in the game, extremely introspective and anti-social. She doesn't like to talk to strangers or smile at them. Yet she runs the town's weapon shop. After you marry her, she starts talking to you about business, how it's going, and her plans to make it more profitable. And everything she can think of to make the place better without having to smile at strangers. For months this dialogue goes on, and covers everything from her changing her inventory to he staging a mock battle with monsters to display the effectiveness of the shop's weapons(Character SpoilerWith her suggesting first you and then herself playing the monster, since both of you can transform to monster forms.).
Now realize that they did similar things for all twelve marriage candidates, running at least a year's dialogue for each after you marry them. And you can only marry one per game, and you only get two save files. How many developers put that much detail into "optional" dialogue like that?
This dedication, this depth of characterization, is repeated everywhere, and it's one of the things that makes this game shine. How many RPGs have we played where characters say the same thing, over and over? Each day, each NPC has something new to add. There are further extra conversations when groups of friends get together while going about their daily business. The discussions change as the plot changes and their relation to your character shifts.
In short, this is one of the few games that actually makes a town life feel alive. These characters all have their own quirks and foibles, but you get to know them slowly, over the course of a year or two, and they always have something new to bring up. As you complete quests, give gifts, or just talk to them every day, they warm to you and bring up different topics. Each feels like far more than just your standard townsfolk NPC. I can't recall ever having a game with a cast this strong and this deep.
Second, let's discuss the gameplay. This is the other thing I love about this game. The farming is basic Harvest Moon fare, for the most part. There are some quirks thrown in (having to rest fields, :(), but on the whole, it's what you're used to. Combat isn't too different from the early Rune Factory games either. A bit refined, more weapon/spell variety, and more options, sure, but the basics remain the same. Customization and the stat system, though. Ah, there we find another gem.
Anyone who has played Skyrim is familiar with its skill system. Do something, increase your skill in that activity. But let me say that Skyrim's system feels like nothing more than a cheap knock-off of RF3's. 33 different skills to work on, with one of the best rate-of-acquisition curves I've seen. When you first start out, skill levels come fast and furious. Which is good, because each is tied to its own stats, and those increases give you fast boosts to your ability to work longer in the day or take on enemies in dungeons. However, as you increase your skill levels, the rate at which you acquire them begins to drop off. Getting to 99 in any one skill is a feat that will be no small time in coming, and maxing them all, well, I still haven't done it (though I only have one left!), and I've been playing quite a long time.
But with so many skills, your progression never stops. You get skill ups regularly. Walking around, Eating, Finding items, Farming, Poison Resistance (raised by getting poisoned or poisoning enemies), Sleeping... While you play through and work your favorite weapon or magic, you'll constantly be improving in so many other ways as well, just by playing naturally. There's no real grind to it, it's just a system that facilitates how you want to play the game, and works from that. It really adds to the whole feel that the game builds up of your character living his life. You're not grinding away or taking on huge adventures to become some avatar of destruction. You're just someone living with the troubles of life, and getting stronger as you grow, endure the hardships around you, and experience the world.
Eventually the game does start to hit you hard with the slow rate of progression. Getting Alchemy, Blacksmithing, or Decorating (accessory crafting) to max level, or high enough to learn the last recipes, is incredibly challenging. But even then, the game throws you a bone. See, your farm, as in most Rune Factory/Harvest Moon games, is central to the game, and it helps with your overall progression as well. Any crop you harvest has a chance to create a Rune Crystal, which boosts a random skill by 1 level (and any partially earned skill Exp is saved for the next level as well). So even when you're wanting to gain just one more skill level for that next weapon recipe... The game doesn't force you to grind it out. There's an alternative way to work it.
I really can't do justice to how well this system works in this description. So I'll simply say that if you've ever liked a Harvest Moon game, give this game a try. It is really something else.
First play through I found out a trick for getting a pretty damn high Black Smithing. :p
Just make sure to raise it up to 32-ish before winter, then when winter hits plant an entire field of leeks. Do nothing that season but forge Two Leaks, by using two leaks. You will get such a damn high skill and a lot of money selling them all.
And I don't think you should really throw in the skills of eating, sleeping, and walking when explaining why it's more expansive then Skyrim's, that just starts to make your argument sound silly. :p
Oh, yeah, there are a couple of tricks to get good black smithing levels and money easily. The carrot sword or the Daikon Radish blade work much the same way. I was more referring to around 80 skill though, and most of those give very little skill Exp by then. They're still good because you can actually grow the mats on demand, but it will take a ton of them. Omni-Elementals give the best investment return by that point, I find. Light Crystals can be gotten by the truckload from the island in the middle of Privera Woods (the little island, not the uber boss one), and they give better skill exp and money. But it's still good to work your field every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
As to the skills, Sleeping and Eating are both optional activities (and there are plenty of days in that game where I don't eat, and I know people who rarely sleep because using the hot springs takes less time and getting colds and fatigue builds your resistances), so they're valid. And, hey, Morrowind had Athletics, which is running/swimming combined, so it's not my fault Skyrim skimped.
These skills are actually pretty important, because they serve to continue progression constantly. Any time you go back in to a dungeon, you're always stronger than when you were there last, even if you weren't focusing on leveling.