I had problems with it while watching it. :p
I mean, I love the show, though. I'm willing to just accept it for what it is.
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I had problems with it while watching it. :p
I mean, I love the show, though. I'm willing to just accept it for what it is.
Rewatched it about 2 times now on the iplayer. I went to the cinema to see it originally and though I am absolutely anti-3D it worked so well to enhance the episode and add to the experience.
The banter between Tennant's and Smith's Doctors was great, the part where the three doctors discussed the "counting" was great but to me, the absolute highlight and surprise was how good John Hurt's War Doctor was.
He was so much better than Tennant and Smith and his presence was phenomenal. I didn't expect it at all actually.I thought he'd have been written in quite poorly since, I'm not a big fan of Moffat and his glorified fanfiction plotlines but wow.
"NO MORE"
Yeah, the plot was shakey at best. And a friend of mine and I are currently discussing it, and he also called it fan-fiction. xD
But I can't deny that I loved the Doctors together. Ten and Eleven, hubba hubba, fap fap. ;)
I didn't think it was that shaky, at least it was no more shaky than his usual stuff. The only point that really bothers me for some reason is that (SPOILER) John Hurt/Tennant/everyone before 11 is going to forget the events that happened in this episode. That makes sense because otherwise it would make no sense for none of the doctors to ever bring up such a big event in their lives. My thinking is that everything with those events, including the memories of them, have been time locked. This stuff had happened all along, The Doctor just sort of didn't remember that he didn't cause the death of all of his people. If that's the case, though, 11 shouldn't be able to remember either.
I'm guessing the actual explanation is that timey-wimey stuff happened and there is no explanation. Everyone except 11 forgot what happened because time and space is weird.
Moffat fanfic plots?
No wonder my own DW fanfics invoke responses like, "This makes me want to watch Doctor Who more than Doctor Who" and "You Doctor Who better than Steven Moffat." That won't do. That won't do at all.
(SPOILER)I got the impression that Eleven remembers because he was chronologically the last Doctor involved in the events of the episode. Well, apart from Capaldi's brief cameo, but Twelve wasn't involved in coming up with the plot to save Gallifrey.
"If you can't handle me at my Steven Moffat, you sure as hell don't deserve me at my Russell T. Davies."
And the plot was shakey because as Ten said IN THE SPECIAL, it shouldn't even be possible for them to be on Gallifrey because it's time locked and its destruction is a fixed point in time. I mean, at least once, if not more than once, a companion has asked him why he didn't just go back in time and save Gallifrey, and he's said it's impossible for him to even be there. The premise of the whole special was just like, wtf. And the fact that they address it IN THE SPECIAL does not make it any better.
I mean, don't get me wrong. I love Doctor Who, and I loved the special. I'm seeing in theatres in 3D tonight. But I can see where there's a ton of problems with it. And while the Doctor won't lose the characterization he already had, him being the last Time Lord was one of the reason he was such an interesting and tragic figure.
You realize they were able to be there due to some intervention from the Moment right? The events are time locked and without the Moment letting them go back to that point they couldn't be there.
It's not like visiting time locked events never happened before. We know Dalek Caan did it so it's not impossible. Just really, really difficult.
Eleven said something after Ten that explained how they did it. I need to rewatch that part again because he kinda mumbles.
I see Vivi covered it already.
Frankly, I'm glad they did this and it was inevitable someone in charge of the show would at some point. I didn't like that RTD killed them all off and hated the tease that they would be returning in the End of Time. Hopefully now we see the return of some Time Lords and possibly the introduction of some new ones. The only thing that bothered me was seeing more than one TARDIS side by side because doing so is supposed to be dangerous. But that's nitpicking.
I still liked the episode a whole bunch. But the main thing itself... well look to be honest with you the Time War has always made me :colbert: because the Doctor sacrificed everything - his home, all those children, his family - to stop the Daleks and then they still show up every five god damn minutes to start some new ruckus. What the hell was the point of the sacrifice? I paid the ultimate price to eliminate the Daleks... oh wait never mind here they are! They have huge hordes and the Emperor and even Davros still knocking about afterwards! Those rascals - boy is my face red at the whole genocide thing! No wonder 10 and 11 were happy to change the decision - they now know they didn't smurfing gain anything by using the Moment to begin with.
Still in contrast to that the little bit of jiggery pokery he pulled was just to wipe out the Dalek fleet. What about these fine-sounding gentlemen who will now be delivering an unending torrent of naughty things? They're the one reason to use the Moment (that and Rassilon and the boys being assholes I guess) and yet they're the one thing he didn't even take out!
Also every episode I've seen of the original Doctor Who has the Time Lords being utterly monumental cocks. Seriously. Colossal wankstains the lot of them. Better off without them :colbert:
I forgot about that description of the Time War. I can only imagine that what The Doctor did was ensure that those things will still exist. (SPOILER) Granted, they exist in a sort of alternate universe where they sent Gallifrey. Speaking of which, I hope the 50th stuff doesn't end up being a foreshadowing of Rose actually returning in that the alternate universe Gallifrey was sent to is the one Rose is in or some other bs. I doubt they'd do that, but the thought entered my mind and I hate it. I think they said it was sent to a pocket universe, which would be different than in alternate universe I guess and make my idea not very possible.
The way I see it, 10 and 11 appearing at the War Doctor's side and then their plan to no longer make Gallifrey burn always happened. Them doing that was actually the fixed point in time. That's why 10 and 11 appear in that moment despite the impossible odds. They have to. He doesn't remember that happening, though. Due to that, he assumes he went through with the plan. The Doctor sent Gallifrey to an alternate universe and also managed to time lock it. That way it syncs up with the events in the show. That's why the Daleks really keep coming back. Part of why I think this is that you already have the precedent in the show of the Doctor doing things because he already saw himself do it in Series 6. There are still plenty of holes in this thinking, but I do kind of think this might be part of what they were going for.
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i'm ready
i'm ready
i'm ready edy edy
You know Psy, I actually liked the Daleks coming back after the Time War. I guess it makes more sense how some survived now, but I liked the idea that The Doctor (thought he) killed his entire race to try and stop them both, but his worst enemy survived and his whole race was still gone. That'd have to tear a man up inside. /smug
Enjoy!! The cinema experience for it will probably blow your mind so do remember to pick up pieces of exploded brain when its done! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Jinx
Okay, okay. Watching it for the second time after a couple of days cleared up all/most of the questions and issues I had. I love it again. :3