Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

The only thing in Tyson's defense really is that they definitely could not winter in Castle Black. The summer was unusually long which means that Winter is going to be unusually long (and how!). Stannis and his army effectively had no choice but to march on through. They were stymied then, really. They could not winter in Castle Black because that would take such an absolute age as to make the entire trip pointless. And marching onward was a doomed journey as well.

Frankly I don't see why they couldn't just take some of Shireen's blood. If it is that potent surely would only need some of the stuff for some ritual. Gendry's blood proved rather effective after all.

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Originally Posted by Formalhaut

The only thing in Tyson's defense really is that they definitely could not winter in Castle Black. The summer was unusually long which means that Winter is going to be unusually long (and how!). Stannis and his army effectively had no choice but to march on through. They were stymied then, really. They could not winter in Castle Black because that would take such an absolute age as to make the entire trip pointless. And marching onward was a doomed journey as well.

Frankly I don't see why they couldn't just take some of Shireen's blood. If it is that potent surely would only need some of the stuff for some ritual. Gendry's blood proved rather effective after all.

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You bring up a good point, I mean if three leaches full of blood can kill multiple people surely burning someone with Kings Blood has to have a much greater effect! Would be kind of lacklustre if all they get from such a huge sacrifice is melting the snow or feeding them for awhile.

I'm expecting fire and brimstone from the heavens!!

Wait, wait, I don't support the whole 'burning of children' thing. What I meant to say, if three leeches worth of blood can do that much, then more blood can do... something more?

Melisandre really should have just stocked up vials of king's blood from Gendry while she had the chance.

The Lord of Light has been proven to have power. See: Renly being stabbed by a shadow baby, Melissandre being immune to poison and Thoros repeatedly bringing Beric Dondarrion back from the dead. You can also make a case for the burning of the leeches but that one is less obvious. I don't doubt that this sacrifice is going to work and Stannis will beat the Boltons now.

On that note, yes, I do think the Boltons are worse than Stannis. Ramsay is a sadist who actively enjoys cruelty for cruelty's sake and Roose isn't much better - see the story about him raping Ramsay's mother underneath the corpse of her husband which Roose hung for sport. Stannis legitimately believes that sacrificing his daughter who he loves - and I do think he loves her, that's why it's a sacrifice - is the only way to save the kingdom. I don't excuse what Stannis did at all because that was a vile and evil act of a fanatic (and I no longer want him on the Iron Throne!) but at least he has a motivation beyond "I like to hurt people 'cause it's fun". He's no Bolton.

I don't care. I hope Stannis dies, which basically means he'll live for another season or two.

You're missing the point if you don't think I want Stannis to die :p Don't worry though, he's getting it. He's sealed his death warrant twice over now for kinslaying.

I do wonder how this will go down into the wider story though. Stannis believes that he will win the support of the Northern bannermen, but once they hear he burned his own daughter alive they'll just think him as bad as the Boltons flaying their victims alive.

It will help in the short term, yes, but longer term Stannis will not warm himself to the Northern lords.

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Originally Posted by Formalhaut

I do wonder how this will go down into the wider story though. Stannis believes that he will win the support of the Northern bannermen, but once they hear he burned his own daughter alive they'll just think him as bad as the Boltons flaying their victims alive.

It will help in the short term, yes, but longer term Stannis will not warm himself to the Northern lords.

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I was just thinking the same thing. Northerns are hard enough to get support from on an average day if you're not one yourself. Interested in Davos' reaction when he finds out. Things won't be pretty.

Oh my Davos... his will be the fury. What makes it more tragic is that Davos almost sort of looked to Shireen as a surrogate daughter, in a way. Stannis was not unfeeling towards his daughter but found it hard to express emotion towards her due to his inability to just not be grumpy. Melisandre obviously thought the girl as a tool, and Selyse didn't much care for her either. It was really only Davos who showed Shireen any amount of affection.

Davos also lost his son remember, way back in the Blackwater. Davos understands intimately what it is like to lose a child. When he learns that Stannis just straight up sacrificed his own daughter for some Lord of Light that Davos is still skeptical of, I think all hell will break loose.

I can almost see Davos breaking off and forming his own army full of the Northern bannermen to fight Stannis himself. Davos is loyal, but I think the callous sacrifice of a child is a line for Davos.

Stannis' own men didn't like what was happening. Not to the point of rising against him, certainly, but the mad king and Joffrey have seen the results of doing smurfed up trout. It'll happen in a more carefully planned way.

I disagree that there are no good characters. Jon smurfing Snow. He's legit one of the few people on this show that is probably still good hearted.

Also to those complaining as usual that's not how it happened in the book, this is the show not the books. They don't have to be exactly the same as it's an adaptation.

There are actually quite a few good characters. If you mean alignment. Jon, Davos, Dany's crew, Varys, the remaining Starks, sexy Jesus, Gendry, Brienne, Pod, etc.

Sam and Gilly too! I wouldn't really call Dany and the gang good though. Let's not forget she crucified 163 random people and that's what led to the troutstorm she's dealing with in Meereen right now. I guess Missandei and Grey Worm are alright though. Also, who is sexy Jesus? If it's Dany's squeeze, that man is a sociopath. A sexy sociopath, yes, but a straight up killer. I wouldn't even say he's "good" in the same way that Jaime and the Hound are "good". He's the Essos version of Bronn.

I really don't hope I said that there isn't any good characters. There are plenty of good characters left; the ones Loony BoB mentioned are all good examples. I would even be hesitant to mention Tyrion, in so far that while he is very clearly flawed, he is at least trying to do what is right. Life events have just made him embittered.

Stannis was an example of a character who was rising slowly to 'good alignment' and was at worst, neutral. It just shows that you can't always rely on characters to stay good, or stay bad. There is much grey area.

I'm guessing Stannis did what he did partially because he's been fed bulltrout and now believes he's Azor Ahai. I've never liked Stannis. I've never understood why people do.

EDIT: Formy, I don't think he's every been good. I think you're getting confused since he's lawful. He's definitely always been lawful neutral, and this still falls under that, imo.