Why love Final Fantasy VII?

I'm an old schooler as well. I had beaten FF 1,4 (II),6 (III) before anyone ever heard of Cloud Strife's epic tale. Well you said that 4 is your favorite, then you will be disappointed with 7. I say that because 4 is in my top 3 Final Fantasies. Love 4, such a beautiful game. 7 does have it's perks though. Play the game, but don't expect it to live up to 4,5, and 6. I'm not dogging it, 7 is good, just inferior to the others. Materia system was decent, but different from 4's class system. In the same it doesn't matter who you take in your party as all characters are the exact same except limit breaks. That's one of the errors with the materia system. Your party was REALLY your materia. And it didn't matter who you equipped it on. Your party of materia was what you were interested in to level up. Character leveling meant nothing. (You just did it with your chosen 3.) Story is inferior to the old school games. Sorry fanboys it's true. Any educated college students would agree with me, especially those that have taken Literature courses. Bottom line, play it an enjoy it for what it is, but don't expect it to live up to the greatness of the 16-bit era.

Question.

Why does anyone really care what other people feel is their favourite Final Fantasy? I mean, if I were to say I love Final Fantasy VII, then I'd probably get eyes rolled at me because you know... I couldn't possibly love any other game.

I love ff7 because of the plot. Each character has a deep story, even the optional ones. It is the only game that I do not get bored with within 3 to 4 hours of playing. Not that I ever have that much time in a day to play games anymore, but you get my point. If you are willing to involve yourself in the story and actually understand and feel what is going on, then you will greatly enjoy it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toad626

Story is inferior to the old school games. Sorry fanboys it's true. Any educated college students would agree with me, especially those that have taken Literature courses.

---

Um, I'm an educated college student, with a well rounded liberal arts background now mostly under my belt.

Even if I hadn't taken literature courses, I would still say to you - I don't see how you could discuss the "old school games" stories on any scholarly level at all.

We agree on alot of stuff; I'm just curious as to where this is coming from.

I don't need to go to college to enjoy a story :(

Just like I don't need to study food to like broccolli.


ANYWAY


On the whole CLOUD IS EMO EW thing:

He wasn't all that mopey really...and I'd be bummed too if I were him. I mean, his girlfriend got stabbed to death, and he's got a mess of self-esteem issues :p

Final Fantasy VII was the first Final Fantasy game for many gamers here.

I think the nostalgia combined with a general positive feel for the game gives it an extensive fanbase. Square Enix has filtered a few of them out by continually making games under this franchise. It is difficult for me to imagine what the first fans of this game feel like after the franchise has been marketed so heavily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roogle

Final Fantasy VII was the first Final Fantasy game for many gamers here.

I think the nostalgia combined with a general positive feel for the game gives it an extensive fanbase. Square Enix has filtered a few of them out by continually making games under this franchise. It is difficult for me to imagine what the first fans of this game feel like after the franchise has been marketed so heavily.

---

I'm pretty sure most of us don't care (It was my first FF, but far from my first RPG).

For example, I haven't bought Dirge of Cerberus, and probably won't buy Crisis Core or before Crisis if it were to be released in the US. Not because I think they're "milking" the franchise, but because I'm not particularly interested in those kinds of games. I'm sure there's alot of other people who are, so I'm glad that Square makes games like that for them. It's really not that big of a deal. I have yet to meet a "first FF" fan of VII who has been upset by the compilation. Moreso, I'm surprised that there are people who have been. Yet most of the people I see complaining about Final Fantasy at all I have only met on the internet, and most of them are the small minority who seem to have problems with FFVII being so popular in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bolivar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toad626

Story is inferior to the old school games. Sorry fanboys it's true. Any educated college students would agree with me, especially those that have taken Literature courses.

---

Um, I'm an educated college student, with a well rounded liberal arts background now mostly under my belt.

Even if I hadn't taken literature courses, I would still say to you - I don't see how you could discuss the "old school games" stories on any scholarly level at all.

We agree on alot of stuff; I'm just curious as to where this is coming from.

---

You can find many themes in the old games. Many of which are the very types of subjects people like Shakespeare would use in his stories. There's plenty of epic moments in the older games. Everyone was all sad when Aeris got killed. Nothing new they did that once before in IV with Tellah. Only he died in battle using a spell that he knows will accomplish a task, but he also knows it will kill him. The sacrifice was worth the price in his eyes to defeat evil. Also with 4, the whole scene about becoming a Paladin. Leaving behind your shameful ways and looking to a brighter future. Celes states a line in 6 that I always liked. "Power only breeds War, I'd Wish I'd never been born." One can write a whole paper on the meaning of that statement and her character. Terra was a representation of diversity. I say this kind of stuff, because I actually did a few Papers on FF in a few Lit classes. One extensive one on FFX. I analyized each character. Here is a brief summary if interested http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-f...ml#post2425948 They said pick a movie or book, and I asked if that would be ok, and my professors were ok with it. One even commented back to me, that they had no idea that such themes existed in video games. Got all A's on those too.

I wouldn't go around telling people you're a liberal arts major. As in all my classes that major is a common joke. We all get stressed out for a Bio or Chem test, then someone will blurt out jokingly that they will change their major to either Liberal Arts, Communications, Business, etc.. The phony majors. And we all laugh, and almost every time even the professor joins in with their own insults of those majors.lol. It takes a good education to pick up on these themes in these games. And there are many more. 7 not as many as others though. Which is probably why so many liked it. The masses are stupid people. And yes I know I'm a snob. Damn proud of it too. I have no respect for anyone without a degree or someone in school studying to get one.

FFVII has been the love of my life! And forever will be..
why you ask?
well it was the first RPG i ever played. Not only does it have a beautiful storyline but it was more down to earth, more funny and more exciting then the rest of the other games. FFx came very close imo but VII will always have my love.
if square ever decides to remake it i think more people would enjoy it more. i really hope they do....Aeris death made me cry and that was with cwap graphics just emagan it with super cool uber graphics wowzer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toad626

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bolivar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toad626

Story is inferior to the old school games. Sorry fanboys it's true. Any educated college students would agree with me, especially those that have taken Literature courses.

---

Um, I'm an educated college student, with a well rounded liberal arts background now mostly under my belt.

Even if I hadn't taken literature courses, I would still say to you - I don't see how you could discuss the "old school games" stories on any scholarly level at all.

We agree on alot of stuff; I'm just curious as to where this is coming from.

---

You can find many themes in the old games. Many of which are the very types of subjects people like Shakespeare would use in his stories. There's plenty of epic moments in the older games. Everyone was all sad when Aeris got killed. Nothing new they did that once before in IV with Tellah. Only he died in battle using a spell that he knows will accomplish a task, but he also knows it will kill him. The sacrifice was worth the price in his eyes to defeat evil. Also with 4, the whole scene about becoming a Paladin. Leaving behind your shameful ways and looking to a brighter future. Celes states a line in 6 that I always liked. "Power only breeds War, I'd Wish I'd never been born." One can write a whole paper on the meaning of that statement and her character. Terra was a representation of diversity. I say this kind of stuff, because I actually did a few Papers on FF in a few Lit classes. One extensive one on FFX. I analyized each character. Here is a brief summary if interested http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-f...ml#post2425948 They said pick a movie or book, and I asked if that would be ok, and my professors were ok with it. One even commented back to me, that they had no idea that such themes existed in video games. Got all A's on those too.

I wouldn't go around telling people you're a liberal arts major. As in all my classes that major is a common joke. We all get stressed out for a Bio or Chem test, then someone will blurt out jokingly that they will change their major to either Liberal Arts, Communications, Business, etc.. The phony majors. And we all laugh, and almost every time even the professor joins in with their own insults of those majors.lol. It takes a good education to pick up on these themes in these games. And there are many more. 7 not as many as others though. Which is probably why so many liked it. The masses are stupid people. And yes I know I'm a snob. Damn proud of it too. I have no respect for anyone without a degree or someone in school studying to get one.

---

Well, you brought up literature, what do you think liberal arts encompasses? And believe me, in liberal arts classes, we have our own jokes about "hard science" majors. I'm in a class on the history of the scientific revolution and they come up everyday.

What you described for the older games aren't really themes, they're simple techniques that exist even in the most juvenile of stories. Not only is your argument weak on that point, but your summation as VII for stupid people, containing "not as many (themes)" further reveals how little you're actually using literary analysis for your points.

Anyone with background in those classes can easily point out that VII falls under the classification of modernism, or post-modernism. The game employs many Dadaist and Marxist themes throughout. This especially puts the story worlds apart from the games you mention. It also throws in a little Romanticism with the combination of the mystical with the secular.

The only previous game that comes close to being placed in a literary category is VI, being somewhat similar to romanticism, with its use of music and drama of the characters, also with magic coming back to exist in the same world with machines.

However, all of this is really irrelevant - no, you definately do not need to be very well educated in order to pick up on what these games are trying to convey. But, if you really want to bring in higher analysis to compare them, there's very little merit in proclaiming the previous ones surpass VII at all. The characters are consistently 2 dimensional and the dialogue is elementary. Everything is presented on the surface and the conclusions drawn at the end are little more than common knowledge that would be universally accepted across cultures. VII's critique of industrial capitalism, on the other hand is a little more thought provoking and is not easy to digest for some who live in such societies.

I hope you are using the term Marxism in its loosest sense wehn talking about FFVII.

Marx's ideas on capitalism had very specific tones, predictions and theories primarily retaining to communism and how it would be achieved.

FFVII had an evil corporation that ruled the world through monoplizing a valuable resource as well as military might.
This has nothing to do with Marxist theory apart from there being a giant corporation oppressing the workers.

And suggesting FFVII had any sort of radically "in-depth" character lineup is just plain laughable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I hope you are using the term Marxism in its loosest sense wehn talking about FFVII.

Marx's ideas on capitalism had very specific tones, predictions and theories primarily retaining to communism and how it would be achieved.

FFVII had an evil corporation that ruled the world through monoplizing a valuable resource as well as military might.
This has nothing to do with Marxist theory apart from there being a giant corporation oppressing the workers.

And suggesting FFVII had any sort of radically "in-depth" character lineup is just plain laughable.

---

I never said it had any radically in-depth character lineup.

Alot of marx's ideas and those of other followers of his are present in the game, I'm surprised you missed it. One is that capitalism replaces the old hidden exploitation with naked, unashamed and blatant exploitation. This is obviously manifested in the fact that Midgar's rich live on top of their poor. This also reinforces his idea that capitalism divides society into 2 distinct camps rather than multiple groups or a hierarchy. In midgar, you're either down in the slums or up on the plate.

Another idea put forth is that it reduces all meaning of what it is to be a human being, reducing man to a machine, no better than the actual machines they work with, a variable of input. Jesse tells cloud all the different sectors used to have names, but no one remembers them anymore and they are replaced by numbers, mathematical representations rather than resulting from linguistic traditions with meaning.

Marx said that the most powerful part of capitalism is that it actually persuades those it exploits that it's in their best interest to participate in society. Many of those living in Midgar's slums express this sentiment, like the man with the TV in sector 5 (i think, whichever one Aeris' house is in).

He also wrote extensibly on how the bourgeouisie branch out from their own nation-states and try to create a world in their own image. Lenin and other Marxists, also, wrote about imperialism which stems from business interests of economic elites. This plays into the war with Wutai, in which they effectively reduced all of the traditions of a completely different culture. They do the exact same to Corel, undermining its deeply rooted cultural tradition of coal mining, and changing them to Shinra's ways. The communist manifesto went into detail on how old traditional industries are destroyed and forcefully replaced with new ones.

He talks about how it creates enormous cities, which draw population from the rural, and make them far more populous than the rural. It concentrates wealth in the hands of the few, and concentrates poverty into distinct areas, which again, goes back to the geographic segregation of midgar.

Many marxists have wrote in the 20th century about what the end result of capitalism will be, especially in the wake of globalization. They stated that all other forms of control, specifically government would be eroded until the distinction between business and government would be no more. This is absolutely inescapable in VII, as Shinra is a company...yet it governs a city and at the same time controls an army. Yet it is an enterprise. The game was especially relevant at the time, as globalization was one of the major buzz words in political discussion during the 1990's.

It's pouring out of so much of the game, I'm surprised you missed it, assuming that you understand what Marx wrote about. I'm assuming you actually don't, since you say it was specifically "retained" (?) to communism and how it would be achieved. If anything, that was the part that Marx wrote the least about. He has so many expansive works detailing every aspect of capitalism, how it operates, how it came about, to the smallest detail, yet the part on how to achieve communism was probably the smallest section of the manifesto.

Quote:

---

Alot of marx's ideas and those of other followers of his are present in the game, I'm surprised you missed it. One is that capitalism replaces the old hidden exploitation with naked, unashamed and blatant exploitation. This is obviously manifested in the fact that Midgar's rich live on top of their poor. This also reinforces his idea that capitalism divides society into 2 distinct camps rather than multiple groups or a hierarchy. In midgar, you're either down in the slums or up on the plate.

---

Marx also predicted that that the capitalists would institute cosmetic reforms such as unions to secure their power. As the consciousness of the worker was risen, the capitalists would have to give more and more allowances to maintain their power.

Shinra never did that at all. They kept a solid class system enforced by military power and espionage.

Quote:

---

Marx said that the most powerful part of capitalism is that it actually persuades those it exploits that it's in their best interest to participate in society. Many of those living in Midgar's slums express this sentiment, like the man with the TV in sector 5 (i think, whichever one Aeris' house is in).

---

There's also a lady in Kalm you can talk to who blesses Mako power and Shinra...

Brainwashing the masses is not something exclusive to Marxist thought. Shinra put on a very good face to the general public and for the random worker, they seemed benevolent and that they give you a handy power source for so many things.

Quote:

---

He also wrote extensibly on how the bourgeouisie branch out from their own nation-states and try to create a world in their own image. Lenin and other Marxists, also, wrote about imperialism which stems from business interests of economic elites. This plays into the war with Wutai, in which they effectively reduced all of the traditions of a completely different culture. They do the exact same to Corel, undermining its deeply rooted cultural tradition of coal mining, and changing them to Shinra's ways. The communist manifesto went into detail on how old traditional industries are destroyed and forcefully replaced with new ones.

---

True.

Quote:

---

It's pouring out of so much of the game, I'm surprised you missed it, assuming that you understand what Marx wrote about. I'm assuming you actually don't, since you say it was specifically "retained" (?) to communism and how it would be achieved. If anything, that was the part that Marx wrote the least about. He has so many expansive works detailing every aspect of capitalism, how it operates, how it came about, to the smallest detail, yet the part on how to achieve communism was probably the smallest section of the manifesto.

---

Coummunism is Marx's best contribution to politicial and economic theory. His studying of how Capitalism was made and how it would develop were only preludes up to what he felt was inevitably the next step and that next step was communism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scarmiglione

Okay, I'm about to give Final Fantasy VII one last try. I would be what you could call an "old-school FF'er". I started with IV (as II).

I want to see why people love VII so much. I've always despised VII. Hate it. I want to know why people love it. If you could, please give me reasoning. Not just vague responses like "best storyline evah!1", please elaborate why you felt that way. I also don't care for fanboy responses either such as, "Sephiroth pws all ftw!!!:love: ", or "I'd only go gay for Cloud".

Please, help me comprehend why this is such a great game; I feel I'm missing out.

---

It seems to me people who like the really old Final Fantasy games don’t like 7 or 8 maybe it’s a bit like me hating Final Fantasy X and not finding the latest Final Fantasy that amazing? As for why I think the game is great, I love the story the characters and the game play I also like the many locations you go to in the game Cosmos Canyon, The Golden Saucer, Midgar, Nimbleheim, Rocket Town the list goes on and on! All the characters are different and interesting I could talk about every individual character but people who like the game already know about them.

I like the game but don't LOVE it. I notice the characters and locations but they don't click with me.

Its just a mildly enjoyable RPG to me.