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I don't understand the point of your post? Playing as a specific main character, you always have the ability to beat every bad villain in each FF game, including Ulti and even Kefka, regardless of fate.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
Yu Yevon is quite evil, it was very untouchable. I think it has killed a lot of people more than any other villians did.
But he wasn't actually evil. He was just doing what he was programmed to do, like a robot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
The point of my post was to clarify Ultimecia's motive for doing everything she did. She was fighting against her own fate. She wasn't just an evil bitch trying to rule everything at once without any reason at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
He didn't have conscience of his own actions. He was doing what he had to do, without any free will. Like a machine.Quote:
Yu Yevon is quite evil, it was very untouchable. I think it has killed a lot of people more than any other villians did.
No he wasn't. He had no motive, he existed solely to summon and that was it. It just happened to be his summon liked to kill and destroy. But all Yu Yevon did was be a large flying tick who summoned over and over for all of eternity and then graviga his own ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
i would pick zemus. not only did he manipulate people using them for self gain and to kill others but he was so evil and had so much hate that even after hes dead he had so much hate in him that i tall couldnt die and formed zeromus instantly after being released through death...id say thats pretty evil. I didnt really think about the others though so maybe someone can top that but Zemus has my vote
I think you both missed the entire point of my post. It's made obvious that Vayne doesn't care about what's best for Ivalice or even Archades. It is out of pure ambition to be a new Dynast King which surpasses the old. "Too long have my deeds gone unrewarded" - he is acting out of selfish ambition. And Venat reveals at the end that she deceived him to end "the age of Stones", so I'm not sure where you get "even the occuria knew it wasn't purely out of ambition." It obviously was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13Yeah, really. Did you actually play XII Bolivar? Yeah, some characters are definitely good and some are definitely not, but Vayne certainly isn't one of them. He thinks he's doing the right thing. Even the Occuria knew it wasn't purely out of ambition.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbokoI can't agree with that. You can look at what Vayne did as "meaning good", he just decided to take the ends justifies the means approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarI know it's trendy to praise XII on how it dealt with morality. "It's so creative! There is no black & white!"Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyaraWhat he said. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
Me? I voted Kefka. For most villans, the suffering they caused was a means to an end. With Kefka, it's an end in and of itself.
If that was actually the intention of the game, then it failed. There are definately characters who are good and those who are evil. Vayne claims to be working for the good of Archadia and Ivalice, but anyone who plays the game understands it was out of pure ambition. Pride is the most serious of the 7 deadly sins.
Not to mention the fact that if you believe that a character isn't evil because they believe they're doing the right thing, then you would have to take nearly everyone off of the list. So even if you were right in your interpretation of Vayne (I think the game makes it clear otherwise), it would in no way exclude him from the list.
Yu Yevon is the main source of all of those attacks, though. If Yu Yevon didn't exist, the world of FFX would be so much a safer place (much less death from the attacks), I don't see how it's not evil?
Is the gun evil?Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
YY controls it, so technically yes.
YU YEVON CONTROLS A GUN!?!?!
lol
No no your missing the point. By this time Yu Yevon has no control over himself. If you program a robot to kill everything is the robot evil? No.
I didn't know it was a he.
Technically, if the machine killed people (would machine keep shooting if YY didn't exist?), then it's an evil thing. I don't know any better word to replace "evil".
YY doesn't need a motive, or whatever, but he was a definitely accessory to all of the murders. YY wins this thread if it killed more people than other villians.
I don't even recall them mentioning if Yu Yevon controlled Sin or not. I'd assume not seeing as it's a floating tick, and I would honestly be amazed if it was capable of sentient thought, let alone deciding to cause mass destruction through another living thing.
Really in the end Yu Yevon just sucked as a villain cause they never explained him or had him do anything except the back story through brining Sin back every time they beat him up.
Something that has no control over its actions, such as gun, or YY in this case, can't be considered evil.
An object such as gun is only considered evil if it's in the hands of an evil person. I doubt you'd say guns are evil when they are in the hands of good people, such as the police.
This thread has nothing to do with accomplishment and everything to do with motive (motive helps determine evil most), Yu Yevon had no motive because he had no setimental thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
Characters like Kefka and Kuja never made any claims to be doing the right thing for anyone but themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarI think you both missed the entire point of my post. It's made obvious that Vayne doesn't care about what's best for Ivalice or even Archades. It is out of pure ambition to be a new Dynast King which surpasses the old. "Too long have my deeds gone unrewarded" - he is acting out of selfish ambition. And Venat reveals at the end that she deceived him to end "the age of Stones", so I'm not sure where you get "even the occuria knew it wasn't purely out of ambition." It obviously was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13Yeah, really. Did you actually play XII Bolivar? Yeah, some characters are definitely good and some are definitely not, but Vayne certainly isn't one of them. He thinks he's doing the right thing. Even the Occuria knew it wasn't purely out of ambition.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbokoI can't agree with that. You can look at what Vayne did as "meaning good", he just decided to take the ends justifies the means approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarI know it's trendy to praise XII on how it dealt with morality. "It's so creative! There is no black & white!"Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyaraWhat he said. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
Me? I voted Kefka. For most villans, the suffering they caused was a means to an end. With Kefka, it's an end in and of itself.
If that was actually the intention of the game, then it failed. There are definately characters who are good and those who are evil. Vayne claims to be working for the good of Archadia and Ivalice, but anyone who plays the game understands it was out of pure ambition. Pride is the most serious of the 7 deadly sins.
Not to mention the fact that if you believe that a character isn't evil because they believe they're doing the right thing, then you would have to take nearly everyone off of the list. So even if you were right in your interpretation of Vayne (I think the game makes it clear otherwise), it would in no way exclude him from the list.
I don't know why you think Vayne can't be doing things for himself AND for the world. Even the way you describe him, he's more like someone who's doing what he believes is right in such a way as to benefit himself and be kind of a jerk at the same time. Face it. He's easily the least evil person on the list, if only because he never wanted to destroy the world.