Haha everyone hates Vaan

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Originally Posted by Big D

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Originally Posted by gjoerulv

I feel that the FF XII character/story complaints always hangs at a demographic level. "It's not supposed to be like that". I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered what kind of story XII actually was. If you ask me it was just what the series needed. To get away from the anime like setup (though it was much anime stuff in XII too). I think that the "main stream" people don't get it/care. Why bother lol. They know what they want.

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Yep, most people complain about the game because it was different to the last one, when usually they moan that each new game is too much like the last one:p

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I don't think people moan enough when games are too much like the last one. Take a look at games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo, neither of which have really changed since the beginning of the last generation. That doesn't stop them from selling retarded numbers of copies.

But they definitely moan too much when games change. When Final Fantasy Tactics came out, people were saying things like, "White Mages don't cast Protect any more, Green Mages do! BAAAAWWW!" and "I can't spam Ultima at everything from the beginning of the battle! HOW WILL I EVER BE CHEAP NOW!" They can't tell the difference between drops in quality and changes. Idiots.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

I don't think people moan enough when games are too much like the last one. Take a look at games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo, neither of which have really changed since the beginning of the last generation. That doesn't stop them from selling retarded numbers of copies.

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Ah, but the Final Fantasy fans are a rare breed. They *demand* innovation and revolution from TEH GRATEST SERIES EVAR, but then they run straight to the internet to complain about how those WHORES at Square-Enix have sodomised their beloved childhood memories of Final Fantasy PERFECTSHION by, I don't know, making Active Time Battles a little more Active than before.

People whined that Final Fantasy was going downhill because they were basically churning the same plot and characters, with the same combat system, and only minor cosmetic changes. A fair criticism, too, sometimes - but not when every new angle, new feature or new gameplay element subsequently cops the same flak.

People got sick of having an angsty teenage male lead who dwells on his feeeelings too much, so then with FFXII they piss bile about how the game doesn't focus on the characters' feeeelings enough. They bitched about ATB being old and boring, but then the new system trialled in FFXII is JUST NOT FF. "Waaah, summons are too cheap and overpowered" became "waaah, summons are too complicated and weak and they expect me to think."

It's something of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for the developers - how to keep the franchise fresh and innovative while respecting what's tried and true. And tiptoeing around the "fans" who get most of their kicks out of being bitter and twisted about every nitpicky detail and start online petitions to have Lightning taken out of FFXIII because playing as a woman in a Final Fantasy is liek teh totaly gayz0rz.

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Originally Posted by Big D

and tiptoeing around the "fans" who get most of their kicks out of being bitter and twisted about every nitpicky detail and start online petitions to have Lightning taken out of FFXIII because playing as a woman in a Final Fantasy is liek teh totaly gayz0rz.

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I hate those people most of all, because Final Fantasy XIII is no less than the third time a female has been the main character of a Final Fantasy game. Where the hell have these people been? (The correct answer is "three feet up their own asses")

This has bothered me quite a bit lately. I really loved XII. Its far from perfect and its not my favorite in the series but I really felt that it was heading in the right direction for the series and for JRPGs in general. I know alot of people play these games for plot and story but I always feel its weird that very few ever care about the quality of the game side.

One of my biggest issues with X was that the ratio of game to story was terribly off. As well as the fact that the gameplay was unique and interesting but implemented in such a way where it was almost a moot point. XII kinda did the opposite, pushing gameplay and exploration to the forefront. I enjoy its story for being mature and not drowned in "Hollywood angst" like so many JRPGs are today. The series has always done some mature things in its story telling but sometimes I feel they lay the "cheese" a bit too thick so people don't complain too much.

I really felt XII did alot for the series in game and world design. I Want them to take all of XII's strengths and build on it. The game to me was a revolution no one understood.

>>> Vaan is the best one hell of a guy, he trains in the sewers killing vicious rats.

and this time im not being sarcastic..

Vaan is much better than Tidus. Actually only thing that nowadays bothers me with Vaan is his outfit what makes him look like a bitch. Maybe he is bitch so he dresses like that but personality wise he is good character. He is much more heroic than Tidus who was bitch too but not with the way dressed but because he was so whiny.

You people are right, XII is a great game, its the fans who are idiotic. I mean wtf is it with always it has to be so emotional, with had video about Vaan being sad what happened to his brother. But it doesn´t need to be mentioned all the time like in X where it was nothing but: "OMG! Jecht and Auron molested me! I´m sad, I´m happy".

Great video. It made my day.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

I do hate Vaan, though. xP He seems completely out of place. All of the other characters are relatively sensible and they work nicely with the overall tone of the game. Vaan acts like they found him in a mall food court or something.

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Nicely done.

Yeah, he annoys the $h!t outta me too. Especially his voice, the way he talks and the way he acts. I realize this even more now that I've started playing through for the second time, for some reason. I personally would prefer Basch by far as the main character. He's a frickin' beast.

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Originally Posted by crazybayman

I personally would prefer Basch by far as the main character. He's a frickin' beast.

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Is there anyone who actually hates Basch? I've seen people state their dislike for almost every cast member but him.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by crazybayman

I personally would prefer Basch by far as the main character. He's a frickin' beast.

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Is there anyone who actually hates Basch? I've seen people state their dislike for almost every cast member but him.

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Its 'cause he's a beast.

I would have preferred Basch as the main character with Vaan and Penelo as temporary guests. As for the video, I think that it was well-made!

Basch is such a sweetie, he is ridiculously chipper and optamistic after all the stuff he suffered and he's so loyal and good to Ashe, even after her intial annoyance and suspicion with him. The guy is adorable. I just love him.

i love Ashe, Basch, Fran and Balthier. but i do still love penelo and Vaan just not in suck awe of them

I personally love every character in that game. I also loved Tidus. The only main character I didn't like was......well I can't think of one. And I don't even consider Vaan the main character, because he isn't. Vaan is as much the main character as Reks is. I would say that Basch, Balthier, or Ashe are the main character. But who knows, maybe Square Enix meant for Penelo to be the main character. We'll never know until they say so. But there wasn't a single character in XII that I didn't like.

I don't hate Vaan. But I do think part of Vaan's problem was that while his role is perhaps unique in the series because of the way they chose to tell the FFXII story, when they went searching for a personality to suit the role, they ended up looking at the fanboyism directed toward Cloud, Squall, and Tidus and used that as the basis for that personality.

Thus we get Cloud's determination, Squall's natural leadership, and Tidus' youthful/whimsical ambition mixed in with the standard coming-of-age thing. And while those things work out well when the story is *about* the character, FFXII shows how awkward those things can be when applied to just any teenager/young adult off the street.

The whole androgynous thing was blatant in such a non-essential character as well...resulting in it backfiring perhaps as much as it helped make Vaan more "accessible to female players."

Ultimately I think Vaan can be seen as representing Square's struggle with accomodating its broader audience. FFXII is a story of and for (young) adults, which will make up an increasingly larger part of the player base as people who grew up with the series become adults themselves, yet the story risked being inaccessible to younger players without characters like Vaan and Penelo for those players to connect with (I think we tend to sell teens short, but at the same time one's cares and concerns, and worldy experience at 14 are generally not the same as they are at 24, so there are differences in tastes and appreciation based on age).

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by crazybayman

I personally would prefer Basch by far as the main character. He's a frickin' beast.

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Is there anyone who actually hates Basch? I've seen people state their dislike for almost every cast member but him.

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I hate his outfit... Does that count?

what!! you mean that lil green curtain tassle doesn't warm the cockles of your heart. I pointed out that Tassle to my brother and we laughed, poor Basch, but i suppose he only got shopping time in rabanastre, maybe if he went shopping in Arcades he would have looked rather posher