LINEAR MAPS :@

While we are on the topic, back in the day, did anyone feel like a kid on Christmas day when you find a new town and first thing you excitedly run around looking for the new weapon/magic stores? I'm really going to miss that.

For me towns have been loosing their interest for a long time. I remember pre-PS2 I used to talk to every NPC in every town, just to see what they said. It then got to be a chore, but I did it anyways because I was stuck in my old school game trigger routs. Then in FFXII the towns were just so many NPCs to talk to and it was of so little value I just gave up, and NPCs have never been the same to me since. Is this just me getting older and jaded, or is talking to all the NPCs in an area less interesting than it used to be. (I do realize old school NPC dialog hardly gets nominated for a writing of the year award.)

I loved getting to new towns and seeing the new stuff I could pimp my characters out with or talking to every NPC in hopes of learning about a sidequest I can do. Even when I replay FFVI, despite knowing damn well most of the stuff is useless and the next dungeon is going to offer tons of better loot, I still visit the three towns on the Imperial continent before visiting Vector, I do similar things in FFVII and lately in FFIX.

I usually find the NPC dialogue helps to either lighten up the mood (especially in a Working Design title) or as a ways to endear me more to the world. Persona 3 really brought back my faith in the usefulness of NPCs as they all had their own little stories going on and talking to them every few weeks revealed more. For once it felt like the NPC were actually living a life beyond the main story of my main characters, instead of just simply reacting to everything that happens in the game (Though to be fair, they still did react to major events as well so its not like its totally bad to do that).

Regarding linear maps: I don't like this. Of course, I don't like FFXII completely either, as the maps feel too open. I liked things more similar to VII, where you have to figure your way around. With X, there was only one real way to go - forward. With XII, you could go in every direction all the time (at least for the most part). However, in VII you would find relatively small maps which, despite their low size, required you to actually think. This is what I find both X and XII lacked - making people think about where they're going (well, sometimes XII made you think, but only because you were lost, and that was more often than not due to the sheer size of the thing). So yeah. Hopefully there will be at least something to do on these maps aside from progress to the next fight.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

However, in VII you would find relatively small maps which, despite their low size, required you to actually think.

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I have to disagree with that to be honest. Although all of the maps had at least a few minor detours, almost none of them required anything in the way of thinking to get through aside from simple trial and error, and there weren't even that many options for where to go. At most one or two slight detours that you would only bother going all the way down for some treasure that was at the end. The maps might not have been quite as linear as XIII since they had a few more of these short paths, but they were still very linear as I recall, especially since unlike XII there was only one way through every area.

Well, okay, fair enough - they weren't actual mazes, but they still required you to have knowledge of how to turn to the right or the left, which you didn't have to do in most maps for either X (because the maps were the definition of linear for the most part) or XII (because they were so open, you just faced the direction of where you wanted to go and then ran forward).

Either way, VII is an ideal map grouping for me. VIII was good enough. But to have either open space or straight line is just... urgh.

I think the gradually more open world map is one of the things I miss most from the pre-PS2 FFs.

For the world map, I definintely miss the old style where you literally walked a complete world map. When they got rid of that, they got rid of one of my favourite things to do with FF's. I don't understand it, either - they have more power, but they have 'weaker' maps. Some argue "But in XII, you are constantly walking the world map, by walking around the different places!" ...no, you're not. The entire map itself isn't even visible, just a few countries. And there are most definitely gaps between explorable locations that we don't see. I just want a single load for an entire world map again. ;_;

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Originally Posted by Rantzien

I think the gradually more open world map is one of the things I miss most from the pre-PS2 FFs.

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Yes. It's not only a classic FF thing, but a classic RPG element. I will concede I thought FFXII dealt with a lack of world map pretty well, but I still miss being able to wander around a huge world map trying to discover new places.

i have the answer to your problem:
Final Fantasy Versus XIII

im gonna buy this one regardless, but still....at least i know there's a killer version of this which will probably be more open world coming soon

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

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Originally Posted by Rantzien

I think the gradually more open world map is one of the things I miss most from the pre-PS2 FFs.

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Yes. It's not only a classic FF thing, but a classic RPG element. I will concede I thought FFXII dealt with a lack of world map pretty well, but I still miss being able to wander around a huge world map trying to discover new places.

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I too, very much miss the world map. I don't see them ever coming back though...heck, has there been an RPG with a world map since FFIX?

I mean it's not required or anything for my enjoyment of an RPG, but I must admit that I was quite shocked and disappointed when I played FFX for the first time and there was no world map or airship I could fly around.

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Originally Posted by Rad Bromance

I too, very much miss the world map. I don't see them ever coming back though...heck, has there been an RPG with a world map since FFIX?

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Not just FFs, but any RPGs? Suikoden IV and V had a world map (though IV's was intensely annoying). I can't think of any world map that was as well done as Suikoden V's; it just felt massive, and made the entire world fun to explore.

Most RPG series by the end of the PS1 generation were adopting the Indiana Jones style map where their was a map and dots you could visit that were actual towns and dungeons a la BoFIV, Suikoden III, and Persona 3/4. I know Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne had a real world map but it was a very barren place (which fits nicely with the games main themes) which though having a few cool optional points of interest was not as engaing as mid-FF world maps. Suikoden V's map is pretty epic.

If there was one thing I would love to explore using a World Map, it was a minor feature from VIII and IX that I felt never got due justice. VIII had the trains that kept going on schedule and Lindblum had airships flying in its airspace to dock in the castle. I would have loved to see World Map with more interactive elements like these. Could you imagine flying your ariship and actually having to be careful not to collide with other airships? Hell, actually running into other people on the world map would be pretty cool even.

I'm less worried about it having read that there are towns, but that they're just not hubs in the way they usually are. After all it's not like there were many in X. Besaid, Kilika, Luca, Guadosalam, and I guess you can count Mount Gagazet if you're generous. Not like the game exactly lacked stuff despite this!

The more I realize how similar XIII's design philosophy seems to mirror X's, the happier I get. Compared to XII, it's hard to see how it's a bad thing; as was pointed out somewhere like the Mi'ihen Highroad, despite being a straight line, was far more engaging than any of the soulless quasi-mazes of FFXII.

World maps! I will agree that Suikoden V had a pretty sweet map. But Wolf Kanno's points are good too, FFVIII's trains were fun etc.

Edit: Then I read the preview thread and my hopes were lowered again :(

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

If there was one thing I would love to explore using a World Map, it was a minor feature from VIII and IX that I felt never got due justice. VIII had the trains that kept going on schedule and Lindblum had airships flying in its airspace to dock in the castle. I would have loved to see World Map with more interactive elements like these. Could you imagine flying your ariship and actually having to be careful not to collide with other airships? Hell, actually running into other people on the world map would be pretty cool even.

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The original LUNAR games on the Sega CD used the world map almost as if it were a dungeon in between towns. It was difficult to navigate because it was so vast that you would spend a little while looking for the next town with the directions given to you from the friendly townspeople. I really like the world map and I would like to see it again in a mainstream title.

As for the linear maps, I don't mind this, necessarily, if the story and design of these maps are done properly. If the party is traveling through a tunnel, then I would like that tunnel to be like a tunnel and not a labyrinth.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

For the world map, I definintely miss the old style where you literally walked a complete world map. When they got rid of that, they got rid of one of my favourite things to do with FF's. I don't understand it, either - they have more power, but they have 'weaker' maps. Some argue "But in XII, you are constantly walking the world map, by walking around the different places!" ...no, you're not. The entire map itself isn't even visible, just a few countries. And there are most definitely gaps between explorable locations that we don't see. I just want a single load for an entire world map again. ;_;

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I agree I do miss map exploration cause there was sense of adventure in that. Especially when you used chocobos and vehicles to explore the various terrains and discover secret places. I miss that the most.
Of course XII exploration was nice, I simply hated (as with X) the simple travel jump. Lack of fun there..

Why can't the newer games be a combo of both. A large map exploration within an even larger world map??

Maybe the PS3 engine /software isn't strong for that yet?

I want answers!! T_T