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Big deal. In the story idea my bro and I are planning to work on and submit to Square soon, two main characters were (and still are) gonna be gay, and be the core couple of the story, sort of like how Squall and Rinoa, Zidane and Garnet, and Tidus and Yuna were the core couples of their games. (Only . . . they were straight, of course.)
So if I don't like guns only in a game, I should still go play Resonance of Fate? Right. Because what you're saying is: "If you don't like something about a game, ignore your own interests and preferences and still play it stupid!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits
It's the same deal here. Just like some people won't play XIII because Hope's in it. Are they kidophobe because of that? Am I gunophobe because I won't play Resonance of Fate?
I WILL deal with it. By choosing not to play it, should it be true. Can you grasp that, or am I too homophobe and pathetic for you to do so?
Will you stop putting me in a monster position already? You're so hell-bent on making me out to be homophobic and evil it's painful to watch. I said it before, if I see a gay people out there I won't mind at all. I won't even be disgusted. I won't even give a damn. But in a game it does tamper my interests. Just like, if Nomura said Versus XIII would only have guns, my interests would ALSO be -200%. Get that? Or am I just attempting to soften it again? You seem to know better than me what I think, so you say it.Quote:
In Elpizo's statement, the mere thought of a character being gay [yet again, even if this were true, there likely wouldn't be any on-screen romance] is enough to turn him away from a potentially good game "-200%" by his own words [later he attempted to soften this by saying "well I'm just 'disinterested'"]. God forbid if a gay guy were actually around him in person - that's even worse than seeing a gay video game character on-screen. Fly outta there man! It's okay, we know it's only because you're "disinterested". We also know that merely having a gay guy in your vicinity, or even worse, a friend that's a gay guy - is AUTOMATICALLY qualified as "immersing yourself in homosexuality". This is absolutely true 100% no exceptions.
And to add: last I saw a series on TV where a jury goes eat in the homes of different, normal people and judge their meal. One of the people they went to was gay. Guess what? I didn't switch of the channel. Because I liked the program.
Oh no, wait, I'm just attempting to soften it again because I'm SO homophobe and evil for loosing interest in Versus XIII if Noctis is gay just like I would loose interest in Versus XIII if it only had guns.
Well you said it yourself right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpizo
"Just like some people won't play because XIII because Hope's in it"
Not playing it because of a single character named Hope, and not playing another game because a character happens to be gay, are two different entirely different things.
Also, think of what you said this way. The "Gay character? -200% interest" etc, this has been said already but you need to understand why that's offensive for you to say. If you merely substitute "gay" for "black" or "female" [or both?], it wound sound pretty damn offensive. And yes, the fact that something so minor and irrelevant can tamper your interests to discredit and ENTIRE work doesn't credit your character very well.
You're of course, free to have your opinion, and you have every right to not play XIII Versus. We're not forcing you to play it, and we certainly as hell don't care if you do or not. However, you did take time to make a topic here complaining about it, so it's obviously something you REALLY don't like. If you're trying to convince me that you aren't homophobic in any way by equating "not wanting to play a game that happens to have a gay character in it" with guns, you're doing a piss-poor job. And the fact that you decided to make this "omg I'm never gonna play a Final Fantasy game with a GAY dude in it" whine-topic, on a forum that's notorious for having several gay gamers on it, is what confuses me when I consider that you seem a little surprised by our reactions.
I don't get what you guys are worrying about, most recent lead characters in the FF series are gay. Look at Tidus, prime example.
EDIT: Seriously, would having a gay lead make it less appealing for me? Of course it would. I would find it hard to relate to a homosexual character, and relating to your character is rather key in an RPG. I'm not against gay characters in games, however being the lead means that I'm less likely to feel compelled towards playing it for the same reason a female lead makes me less compelled towards playing FFX-2. I would be interested in how many homosexuals would be more interested in a game if it allowed them to play a gay lead - does that mean they are heterophobes? No, it just means that they're more interested in a game that they can relate to, and that's nothing bad at all.
I DID NOT MAKE THIS TOPIC TO WHINE OR COMPLAIN ABOUT THE FACT THAT NOCTIS IS GAY OR NOT. I shared the news, that is all, and gave my thoughts on it. Stop putting words in my mouth. I also like how you continued to make me seem evil, disregarding all the rest I said. But OF COURSE you know better than me, because I am an evil homophobe after all, regardless of the fact that I said that guns only in Versus XIII, or the entire game pink, would also be -200% interest for me.
Besides, it was an april's fools anyway.
Don't switch arguments mid-debate to suit your agenda or trying to make yourself seem less prejudiced. You didn't come here saying "Man, I hope this game isn't all guns, or too much pink". We got "Dude, if Noctis is really gay then I'm definitely not gonna play this game. That's -200% interest for me". You're merely adding that "guns/pink" bit on at the last minute, hoping we'll go "oh okay, yeah I understand".Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpizo
Of course it was. I don't think this has been the main point of the topic for several pages now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpizo
If Tidus is what we get stuck with for the "here, there's your gay character now be quiet" pacifier then I quit here and now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Huge difference between not being able to relate as well to the lead for being gay, as opposed to rejecting the game entirely based off of it. Hell, as we've said, we play video games with straight male leads all the time, and straight female leads as well. Same thing goes with straight romance - it's all up in our faces, everywhere. Movies, books, TV shows, going out, whatever. Does it bothers us? No. Not even in the slightest. Basically, we're saying "deal with it - we do", ie. we're not really understanding how this is actually something worth complaining about. It's pretty insulting if you ask me. I'm not asking you to change your opinion, because you won't. But I'm certainly as hell not going to say "Yeah man I know how you feel. I totally support how you feel there".Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Yeah, well, you seem branded on making me an evil homophobe, so fine, I'll just play along and say you're right. I'M A BAD HATER! BOO!
XD At the very least, please tell me you aren't surprised by this. I'm having a hard time believing that you didn't see this coming, especially seeing as how you have nearly 1k posts and you've been here since 2006. Oh well, I acknowledge your admission!Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpizo
Also, please add that I am a gunophobe because I do not play Resonance of Fate and don't like RPGs with only guns in it. I'm also a pinkophobe because I don't like games with only pink in it. I'm a horrorophobe because I don't like horrormovies. I'm a hopehaterophobe because I don't like it when people bash Hope Estheim. I'm a muslimophobe because I hate terrorist attacks by Islamic extremists. I'm a christianophobe because I hate the crusades. I am a chemistryophobe because I hated my chemistry classes at school. I am... So on.
Satisfied?
EDIT: Forgot to say, but my evil homophobia is CLEARLY proven by the fact that Mr. 2 Bon Clay (a travestite AND a gay character) in the anime One Piece is actually one of my favourite characters. Oh, but I'm probably just making excuses again, right? Sorry! You know better than me what I like best, after all. Because no matter what I say, I always "add it last minute", because you SO know better than me how I think and what I do and like. How can one even argue with you? Everything I say you just wipe off with "you just say so in the hopes of us agreeing". Well, screw you. You and your stupid Elpizophobia.
You don't even give me a chance to defend myself. You're so stupid in your narrow view of "Elpizo doesn't want to play with a gay main character, he's homophobe! Hate him! Brand him with the sign of evil!" that you don't even give me a chance to defend myself. And even if I do, you ignore all my arguments just because supposedly "I use them to draw sympathy" and not because they're actually valid points on my part. No, because I AM homophobe and you just HAVE to prove that! Elpizo is evil! Hate him!
I'm more saying 'he' is a total woman. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalin
And of the games that have had straight female leads, I've not played many. I should probably note that I never said that I'd not get the game, but only that it makes me less likely to. The two are very different and should not be confused. I'd probably have got the game anyway.Quote:
Huge difference between not being able to relate as well to the lead for being gay, as opposed to rejecting the game entirely based off of it.
Hell, as we've said, we play video games with straight male leads all the time, and straight female leads as well.
Yes, but that's not for lack of choice when it comes to gaming. I'm not against the idea of gays being lead characters, I'm just saying I would be less likely to take an interest in the game because, well, it doesn't fit into my ideal gaming perspective, which is one where I can understand and relate to the characters. I can't understand or relate to homosexuals because I'm not homosexual myself. I won't pretend that I understand it at all, because that would be on par with saying "I totally understand how blacks feel oppressed" when, in all reality, I don't. I've never been in such a situation so I can't relate.Quote:
Same thing goes with straight romance - it's all up in our faces, everywhere. Movies, books, TV shows, going out, whatever. Does it bothers us? No. Not even in the slightest.
There is a distinctive difference between saying "I'm less likely to play it" and complainging about it. I think it would be fantastic for there to be a gay lead character in more games - but only because I think that homosexuals and even bisexuals should have the right to be able to have lead characters that they can totally relate to. I think it's a splendid idea. Doesn't mean I'd go out of my way to buy any of the games myself, but I don't understand why gays shouldn't be able to have well designed and developed games with intense lead roles that just so happen to be homosexual.Quote:
Basically, we're saying "deal with it - we do", ie. we're not really understanding how this is actually something worth complaining about.
Basically, if I had the choice between many games that were designed well then I'd naturally opt for the one with a heterosexual male lead rather than a female lead or homosexual male lead. It makes sense for me. Luckily for myself, I'm blessed for choice when it comes to games targeted towards heterosexual males. So I can make that choice and I can disregard the other options. That's not saying I don't like females/homosexuals, nor is it saying that I don't want them to have fantastic games with the leads that they can relate to. It's simply saying that when I buy a game, I am making a choice. Right now, you don't have that choice (to my knowledge) and I think you should. But if you did have that choice, I wouldn't expect you to demand that I play your game any more than you should expect me to demand that you play mine. That's just silly. Choices are choices.
EDIT: It should be noted also that I admit to being a homophobe openly. Not in that I fear homosexuals (who I don't have any problems with that I wouldn't have with a heterosexual), but I fear homosexual acts being done to me, which I think is a perfectly acceptable thing to fear. With that in mind, it only makes sense that I would not want to see these things being done to "my" character.
this is what i see.
"im not homophobic but his ass is gay? i aint playing that mess".
It shouldnt matter to most "nonhomophobes" iif hes gay as long as he ya know doesnt kiss a guy.
i wouldnt mind it :P but i think im 1000% more pumped to buy this XDD
Well, I agree with this, and I'm the same. Now come and brand me with the sign of evil, Elpizo haters. Because I'm so bad and despicable for thinking like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
To Loony Bob - Your post is basically a lengthened explanation so I'll respond without quoting. I'm saying that for guys like me [not sure about Moon Rabbits etc.] even if there were 2983748923 games with gay male leads in it, I still wouldn't find it objectionable to play games with straight male leader or female ones. I can still love a character if he's good enough regardless of those things. In fact, something out of the ordinary makes it more fun, don't you think?
I just think it's sad [though I'm still aware it's quite common] to reject something based on something like that. I can understand a straight guy isn't going to be all "Oh yeah, a gay male lead! I've been waiting for ever!" or anything like that. However I'd say that rejecting the ENTIRE thing based on that one, single quality, is absolutely pathetic. Nevermind the art of the game, the great character designs, the elaborate story plot they spent years on, the wonderful graphics it might have, the potentially awesome gameplay, the amazing battle system. Nope. None of that counts. It all falls apart because the lead happens to be gay. I don't think there's a "nice" way to paint this. I'm not saying everyone should be 100% always looking forward to it, but geeze at least give it a chance [though I know many people won't, no worries].
Don't switch arguments mid-debate to suit your agenda or trying to make yourself seem less prejudiced. You didn't come here saying "Man, I fear homosexual acts being done upon me". We got "Dude, if Noctis is really gay then I'm definitely not gonna play this game. That's -200% interest for me". You're merely jumping on Loony Bob's bandwagon at the last minute, hoping we'll go "oh okay, yeah I understand".Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpizo
Pfft, no thanks. You guys can keep him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
And for the record, stating that you don't want homosexual acts done upon you is useless. That isn't homophobia as you try to stretch it out to be. I wouldn't want straight acts done to me either, but I have no problem being surrounded by straight friends kissing in front of me / straight romance on TV etc. Two entirely different things. Now, to say something like "I don't want to make friends with gay guys because I'm afraid they'll do homosexual acts upon me" would be homophobia, aside from being blatantly stupid.
I'll use it again, and I don't give a damn if you say it's just an argument I cooked up: if Versus XIII had only guns, I wouldn't play it either. It's called being very picky. And that I'm very picky, I'm aware. Some things you don't like but tolerate, others you don't like and stay away from (in a game only). Noctis being gay is one of those things. Gameplay only being about guns is one of those things. The entire game being pink is one of those things. The entire game being dubbed in dutch (my mother language) is one of those things. It's what I am and how I do my stuff.
I'm sure you have quirks others would call 'pathetic' too.
Had anybody but Noctis been gay, I wouldn't have minded as much, because they're not the main and you're not supposed identify with them. But Noctis is the main and I'm pretty sure you're supposed to identify with him. If he's gay I can't do that, and if you can't identify with your main character, it takes the joy out of your story. It's why I don't mind all the travesty and gayness in One Piece: they're not the main characters, so you're not as much suposed to identify with them.
I suppose you could say "But Lightning's the main in XIII and she's a woman! Can you identify with her, huh?!" No I don't really can, but XIII isn't Lightning's story, it's the entire cast, and there's no real lead. That makes it easier.
Furthermore, I tend to accept what Loony Bob said below, that if Noctis being gay was just a little detail and not really important to the story, I wouldn't be bothered as much by it (I'd still wouldn't be able to identify with him, but maybe I would give the game a try if I heard that the rest of the story and gameplay were awesome). But given the series' history with romance being central to the plot, I doubt this would be the case.
I agree that rejecting a game entirely based on "oh, he's gay" would be sad. It would depend on more than just the fact that he's gay. I watch TV shows with gay leads, I've watched movies with gay leads (eg: I watched Brokeback Mountain but admittedly found it very boring and unenjoyable, personally speaking) and some I have enjoyed, some not so much. Games put you in some vague amount of control of a character, though, and it would be nice if there were options rather than being told "In this game, you like guys" because it's very hard to force that. Having said that, if it was not a major part of the game but just a sidenote about a character then I'd not be bothered at all. If it was a major part of the game that you are involved in a male to male relationship, I would probably be a little weirded out by that and would never really enjoy the game because of the lack of ability to relate to the main storyline, though. Probably similar to Brokeback Mountain. But that was boring as it stands. At least, I thought so.