Spoiler and Final Impressions Thread

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Originally Posted by Fox

You're not wrong in what you say, but oh man. It goes far, far beyond XII in its sparseness.

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I'm not sure if you mean story sparseness or map sparseness. I struggled with XII and literally had to start over because I completely forgot what was going on in the story after getting sidetracked by hunts and exploring. Similar happened to me with XV but not to the extent that I felt I had to restart from scratch. I mean, I do agree that XII was better fleshed out (regarding thins like what Pauper was saying about Shiva/G...person) but I don't feel that I understood it any better or had it ingrained into my head any better... if that makes sense? xD XII's story was largely forgettable to me, which is a shame as I played through it twice.

Regarding maps, I feel they are also about on par with each other. I feel "far, far beyond" is exaggerated. They're about the same in this area. The main difference would be that in XV, the final chapters really focus you more on the story progression, although you can still technically return to older areas it's something you feel very much removed from at that point.

I agree that hunts felt way cooler in XII. I think it's because they had a good chunk more to them than simple quests for quick rewards with some leveling up. There was a clan, and each hunt had a little story to it (ie, you met the person who was personally invested in the hunt and why, stuff like that).

Also, I can confirm there is 100% DLC stuff coming in to do with what Gladiolus had to get up to during his absence from the party. It's detailed in the Piggyback guide that this is the case. I think there might have been mentions of other DLC in there too but I can't remember off the top of my head and going through the book to find that kind of sidenote is not worth the effort. xD

I'll also note that while the Piggyback guide is awesome as always, it doesn't include a story breakdown like we got for XIII, which is a shame as a lot of the stuff happening in the background could really do with more information, as everyone in this thread seems to agree on.

To stray from topic a little bit - Yeah, I think XII's story was incoherent only because of Vaan and Penelo. I think the world of XII is much more interesting, from a lore perspective and what we know. I also think that I'm judging this based on all the Ivalice lore we get from the Tactics series, and from a lesser extent: Vagrant Story.

I think the reason I like XII's story so much is because it's similar to the reason I love Suikoden II. The story is more political, vs. evil thing destroying the world. Vayne isn't out to eliminate Ivalice, but control it and bring his version of Peace. Venat (I think that's his name), while having ulterior motives, also doesn't seem that hell-bent on pure destruction. (Memory will be refreshed with the XII HD release) Granted, there's plenty of plotholes with XII as far as what the hell the Occuria actually are, these espers being not-so-bad vs. the espers in Tactics, and yeah... But, for some reason, the story is a lot more coherent and memorable for me. I think it's because Balthier, Basch, and Ashe are such great characters, and the writing in XII is second to none - same with the Tactics rewrite for the PSP/Mobile version.

Back to topic: XV doesn't really do anything like this. I mean, I really don't know ANY of the motivations of ANY of the characters. VI's Kefka has one tiny hint meant to explain a ton - when he was first infused with magic, his mind snapped (soldier in Vector) and the fact that VI barely fit on a SNES cart - so I can forgive some of the plot-holes there. But, and again, I haven't completed the game, Ardyn is not fleshed out enough for me.

OH! And to vent about the treatment of women in this game:

What they do to Cidney is smurfing deplorable. They could have classed her up. Everytime she's washing the car and exposing cleavage, I can't help but think a massive dick-service to teens and male chauvinists everywhere. And in the big city across the revine that starts with an L - there's an NPC who talks about his lady getting a promotion, and that while he is happy, he now feels "less than" - WHAT THE smurf!?

Positives:

Combat: I always find Action RPGs to be incredibly hit or miss and sometimes this type of combat can be frustrating to me. Going into FFXV I was under the expectation I wasn't going to like the combat, but would stomach it for the sake of the story. How wrong I ended up being. Aside from camera hiccups and blocking not blocking from time to time, I really enjoyed the combat system. There were very few moments where I got truly annoyed with the combat, I think the only incident I can really think of is when I got a bit too cocky in Insomnia and engaged the two lv50 something Nagas in a narrow side street.

Graphics: This is a game that screenshots really don't do justice. On a still image, the lack of Anti-Aliasing etc and blurry textures are all too apparent, but when you're actually playing the game, the subtle use of blurring and ambient lighting really create such a vivid and immersive world. The amount of little touches, such as the car and characters getting dirty, the dash on the car actually reflecting your speed, hair blowing in the wind, the way rain interacts with surfaces etc. is staggering.

Ascension: Although this is effectively a streamlined Sphere Grid, I felt it was a nice enough character progression system. I always felt like there was a lot of things to work toward. Although a minor criticism of this is that the starting Techniques seem to have the most bang for the buck, with the exception of Ignis's Regroup.

The Bros: I was as skeptical as anyone that Square Enix could pull off an all-male cast. With the franchise being so diverse in previous titles in terms of party composition, this was a very odd move for SE. I wasn't sure I could get into a title with no relatable female in the party. However, they really nailed the dynamic of the bros. The banter and interactions, the realistic falling-outs, and the general comradarie were all on point. This is probably the first FF I've played where none of the main party have pissed me off. I was expecting Prompto to really annoy me, but he didn't. While he is the jovialness of the party, the comic aspect never grates as much as the comedy character in previous titles have.

Dungeon Crawling: This is by far the strongest point of the game. Dungeon crawls are something the main-numbered series has been sorely lacking since FFV. Every dungeon I've explored so far has felt compelling and unique.

Soundtrack: The battle themes were so memorable. Yoko Shimomura really delivered here.


Neutrals:

The World: Don't get me wrong, the world is stunning. However, it really isn't as open-world as it makes you feel. Sure there's these stunning vistas and views, but so much of it is barred off with fences, hedges, rocks or invisible walls. This is especially true along the coastline where there's whole areas of coast you can't even get too. It's definitely far more open-world than any FF to date, but compare it to something like Skyrim or The Witcher 3 or even GTA V, and it's far more limited. Kinda disappointing when they made a big deal about how big the world is compared to some other open-world titles. Also, the entire other continent just being, quite literally, an "on-rails" linear experience, was very disappointing. But, when the world delivers, it delivers big - and some of the sights are truly breath taking.

The Story: The story is definitely a very traditional Final Fantasy one, it's not told in the greatest way though. While I like having supporting material to enjoy, the fact that so much of the story goes unexplained unless you've watched Kingsglaive and Brotherhood is a huge misstep. Also the Omen cinematic, which is basically supposed to show what happens if Noct failed, really makes no sense within the story of the actual game. I enjoyed the story pretty much up until after the Leviathan fight, from that point onward it became a (no-pun intended, given the chunk of the game that follows) a train-wreck up until the finale.

Sidequests/Hunts: So many glorified fetch/kill quests. It's a shame there wasn't more on the level of the Deadeye hunt in Duscae. While some of the sidequests were fairly enjoyable, and revealed more about the NPCs that some of the actual suppporting cast get treated too, they could've really have pulled up the bar a bit here. I don't mind kill/fetch quests in the slightest, but when something like Deadeye shows what they can do if they put their mind to it, you can't help but feel the rest of the offering is somewhat lacking.


Negatives:

Supporting Cast: The lack of, or complete flippant, character development of the supporting cast is really a series low-point to me. I still don't even understand Ravus's motivations, especially when taking Kingsglaive into account. I get that he wants to protect his sister, but to go about that he first tries to steal the Ring of the Lucii, only for it to reject him. He then goes about trying to kill the Archaeons due to the hurt awakening them causes Luna. Then in another flashback he's seen urging Luna to fulfill her calling, which would mean doing all the very things he's tried to prevent her from doing. Like... what? Luna herself sees very little in the way of development and characters from Kingsglaive such as Iedolas etc are relegated to about 5 lines of dialogue in the entire game. There's so much missed potential here.

Chapter 13: smurf everything about this trout. The first 20 minutes or so were fun, but then it really outstayed the welcome.

X to jump & interact: Quite how that got QA approved I'll never know.

Kingsglaive & Omen clips: These feel so shoe-horned in. The Kingsglaive stuff works mildly to flesh out parts of the story. But Omen really makes no sense where they chose to include it.

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Overall: I really enjoyed Final Fantasy XV from start to finish. Some of it's dungeon crawls and more linear elements really gave me the nostalgic Final Fantasy feels that I haven't felt since FFIX. The game has some moments of sheer brilliance and colossal scale, but at the same time it stumbles wildly on many of the finer details. I hate to say it, but when I look at the elements where FFXV falls flat, I really feel like it could've done with more time in the oven. The gameplay is solid enough to carry it through, but it's flaws detract it from being something amazing and leave it firmly in the "good" tier.

Personal Highlight: Sunken Temple dungeon thing with Prompto, Ignis and Aranea.

TL;DR: Game is great up until the end of Altissia. After that it really falters. Makes me feel like they hadn't even started on the post-Altissia stuff and then got forced to rush it due to an executive forcing a release date on them.

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Originally Posted by Dignified Pauper

there's an NPC who talks about his lady getting a promotion, and that while he is happy, he now feels "less than" - WHAT THE smurf!?

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Oh yeah, I forgot about that dude for a bit! I was so mad when I walked by him. "My wife has a good job and it makes me feel like less of a man". I wish I could believe it was some kind of social commentary about an insidious patriarchy but considering their treatment of women in general in this game I'm not going to give them that much credit.

Wasn't that in Lestallum, too? "The power plant is operated by women only!" I didn't quite get where they were going with that but then I didn't quite get where they were going with a lot of things.

Damn. I think, tl;dr line excepted, Aulayna just summed up my viewpoint really well. So read her post as my viewpoint, and then add in the following...

Transport - They nailed this. Car to drive around on roads, chocobo for off-road, FF playlist of music,

Music - It's easy to forget the actual FFXV music because you get hyped up for the mp3 player. But the FFXV music really impressed me, and I know when I streamed, I got a few comments from DrAssenov that she really liked certain songs that were playing that were part of the game's soundtrack. I particularly love the chocobo music and the music that kicks in when you get near a camp. Beautiful, calming music that instantly makes you feel safe.

Ending - I am in two minds regarding this. I both really like it and dislike it. I really like how they tied up the bros. I really dislike how they closed off the World of Ruin, locked out secondary characters bar Talcott, and locked out Lestallum. I am definitely annoyed that they didn't really expand on the World of Ruin. I don't think I'd have liked to spend much time there, but I'd like to have spent enough time to meet old friends, learn more about what had happened over the past ten years, etc. Potentially even mourn a passing.

I am in two minds on the final wedding scene. There are a lot of theories being thrown around and I sincerely hope that SE never confirms which one is accurate. The immediate thought is they are dead and in "heaven" or some afterlife location. The other theories are that the Gods let them live, or that if you interpret "removing Ardyn from history" (Noctis' quote) literally then time has been corrected and all is well again. I'm in two minds because while I want Noct to end up with his 'true love', I was kind of hoping that after Luna died, in the long run he'd end up with Iris. :shobon:

EDIT: I remember that Lestallum line. And I think it's reasonable to put that kind of stuff in. I think it's good to have "real" situations, even negative ones. A great example is how much I loved that people were racist against my character's race in FFXI. Meanwhile in FFXIV, the races barely acknowledge anything about each other at all. Hell, I barely know my own culture. I think this is kind of idealistic and sugar coated. It's not nice, but racism is a thing in the world. Sexism is too. The fact that the females are the only ones who work in the factory at Lestallum is another example of sexism, as Psy mentioned. Why? Why not? It's an interesting little tidbit but they don't expand on it enough. I'm not sure it would help them out at all if they did, though, because people will always lose their trout over things like that.

It struck me as sort of a token attempt to address the criticism they'd received about the portrayal of women. Like, hey, we've got women doing a traditionally male role! See? We're not so bad! I guess you have to at least appreciate the attempt even if they did it in such a cack-handed way.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Damn. I think, tl;dr line excepted, Aulayna just summed up my viewpoint really well. So read her post as my viewpoint, and then add in the following...

Music - It's easy to forget the actual FFXV music because you get hyped up for the mp3 player. But the FFXV music really impressed me, and I know when I streamed, I got a few comments from DrAssenov that she really liked certain songs that were playing that were part of the game's soundtrack. I particularly love the chocobo music and the music that kicks in when you get near a camp. Beautiful, calming music that instantly makes you feel safe.

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I have two points the bug me with the music, none of which are a slight of Shimomura-san herself. Firstly, there wasn't enough of it. Too often they'd reuse the same track, and though there were nice themes there were few variations on those themes. FFIX had a total track count of over 100 including pieces written for FMV sequences, I expect XV to have well under half that.

Secondly it didn't get used as effectively as it should. Too often in cutscenes it would be so quiet in the mix that it wouldn't have the impact it should have. Another good example is when they play Somnus when you return to the crown city, but a) it's too quiet and b) it keeps getting interrupted every ten seconds with battle themes. Fighting through deamons in the crown city to a background of Somnus would have been so atmospheric, but in the end I had to just stand stationary for a while just to be able to listen to the thing.

One thing I really liked about how they used the music was how it would transition seamlessly from one style to another sometimes. The Chocobo theme is the most prominent example of this; it's a lovely, chilled out piece led by some woodwind when you're on a chocobo at walking pace, but as soon as you start to run the percussion and other instruments fade in. That was very smooth and awesome. More of that please.

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EDIT: I remember that Lestallum line. And I think it's reasonable to put that kind of stuff in. I think it's good to have "real" situations, even negative ones. A great example is how much I loved that people were racist against my character's race in FFXI. Meanwhile in FFXIV, the races barely acknowledge anything about each other at all. Hell, I barely know my own culture. I think this is kind of idealistic and sugar coated. It's not nice, but racism is a thing in the world. Sexism is too. The fact that the females are the only ones who work in the factory at Lestallum is another example of sexism, as Psy mentioned. Why? Why not? It's an interesting little tidbit but they don't expand on it enough. I'm not sure it would help them out at all if they did, though, because people will always lose their trout over things like that.

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I don't disagree that most of the time this would be fine. If this were a game that I felt generally treated its women with a high level of respect, then I would've just walked past that dude and thought "Well, he's a dick." I wouldn't have been mad at the developers. But in a game where Cindy gets dressed like she is, the main heroine's primary motivation in life is to marry and lay her life on the line for a guy and where crotchless pants are the only fashion option available for every single woman in Lestallum, that otherwise throwaway line just felt like rubbing salt in the wound.

According to the SE store...

Standard Edition (CD): 80x songs

Standard Edition (BR): mp3 files, graphics.

Limited Edition: Florence + the Machine song (how Stand By Me isn't included in the standard edition I don't even know), behind the scenes recording session "among others", bonus BR disc with the entire car stereo, featuring over 250 songs from the series (apparently the largest ever compilation from SE), bonus CD with piano arrangements of several tracks from the game, and a large sized booklet with discussion from the music team.

Also, definitely agree that some tracks were interrupted too easily by fight music. I'd have loved for the FFXV songs you've stumbled across in the game's story to be added to the car stereo/mp3 player as you go, or at least in the endgame put the whole lot in.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Standard Edition (CD): 80x songs

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I'll be very interested to see how it gets to 80, it certainly didn't feel like that much! I wonder if it'll be something like a large number of tracks having that dual layer such as the Chocobo theme, which feels like one piece in game but would naturally count as two in the OST.

I just saw that there was a guy who literally spoiled Final Fantasy XV months ago:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1233181

To be fair, ever since voice acting and constant sound effects (ie, footsteps, crowd noises, etc) kicked in, songs are much less noticeable. You notice them a lot more in situations where you are going to be around for a while, like field areas. I imagine there were a lot of songs I didn't notice during certain cutscenes or even battles.

In addition to that, often they are similar but not the same a la FFXIII-2 which had a theme that was used in a large number of songs. They did the same with FFXIV.

I can't think of a single FF soundtrack that didn't surprise me with how big it is. They manage to cram a lot of songs into these games and I often don't even notice half of them. It's not until I listen to all the tracks from VII one-by-one that I realise how many songs there really were in that game. Crazy. Same for many others in the series.

It's also notable that these days sound quality is far better, so they have to put a wee bit more effort in. Whether that ends up working out is up for debate for certain (few songs of the modern era compare to Aerith's Theme, for example), but as time goes on, I've grown more and more fond of the more recent tracks. Answers was an immediate hit with me from FFXIV, Crazy Chocobo was hilariously great, and I've found myself listening to a lot of XIII tracks in this game while skipping older songs, which surprises me. XII probably still has my favourite soundtrack overall to listen to though.

The more I think about it, the more I'm disappointed by what happens after Altissia but before Insomnia. The stuff in the swamp with blind Iggy was great, the train set-pieces were great, but only getting to see Tenebrae from a train station was lame, not getting to explore any of that continent in the Regalia was lame, the Resident Evil style gameplay in Garlea (w/e) was pretty lame after a while. And the pacing of the story throughout all of that was so off.

I really can't help but feel those chapters were rushed. They're okay enough, but within the context of the rest of the game they just feel off. I feel that whole segment had good ideas but was sorely lacking in polish. (biggest case in point here is Prompto being an MT... where the hell did that come from?)

I agree with all those points. Chapter 13 has really destroyed a lot of people for enjoyment factor. On the first RE-like moment I got a legit shock and thought "oh man, is this gonna be like RE? Awesome." Then after what felt like an hour or two... urgh. But yeah. It would have been a LOT better if either you could run during that part, there were more enemies you could actually kill using Doom (I could only use it on the weak enemies), give you a chance to use R1+Triangle move (the mass-destruction one) to better effect, or perhaps just make it shorter, I dunno. I did like reading the notes around the place. It had some things going for it, but needed work.

Despite that this is still possibly the first FF I've ever actually looked forward to dungeons in. They had nice little tricks to them and felt like old-school dungeons in that regard, the ease of movement after killing initial enemies meant you didn't have to drag yourself through 50 fights because you took a wrong turn, etc. Stuff like that gets a thumbs up from me.

Just not chapter 13. xD

I used that instant kill vortex sucking move non stop in Chapter 13. The hiding mechanic was stupid and Death and Holy both took too long.