whos squall's dad?

But it also sounds to me like Laguna was somewhat hurt that Julia went and married someone else. His reaction:
"So what! Who cares!? "As long as she's happy, right? That's all that matters!"
Sounds almost sarcastic to me. I think Laguna realized that it was silly to think she'd wait that long for him when he made no effort to contact her, but part of him hoped she had, and was dissapointed that she didn't. I mean, even Kiros and Ward, his best friends, had no clue what had happened to him or even if he was alive. Plus, Laguna really didn't start to consider his feelings for Raine until AFTER he hears of Julia's marriage, even though Raines' feelings for him are pretty apparent from the start.

It is true, however, that thry could have done more with it, which is why if Square ever considers doing a sequel to FF8, I think a prequel would be the most fitting, dealing with the first Sorceress War and Raine, Laguna, and Julia. It would clear a lot of things up. :)

A nice mix I guess, dissapointement, and a fair dose of guilt towards Julia, and shame towards Raine (he didn't mention to Raine he had... not quite a relationship with Julia. It wasn't like he had a reason to hide it from her right? She was just a good friend. But then... he didn't have a reason to tell her. Yeah, that's the ticker)

I wouldn't say sarcasm though. Can you imagine LAGUNA being sarcastic? More of a 'I don't like the way this conversation is going' After all, he did try to shush Kiros over the whole 'crush' he had.

You may notice that I absolutely don't call Julia a slut. In fact, it's Laguna's behaviour that seems the most shameful to me. After all, he DID promise to meet with Julia again. Least he could do was a 'hey, I'm currently healing of having almost every bone in my body broken' message, even IF he's fallen in love with Raine by then. For all he knew she was STILL pining away from him while he was making up his mind whether he loved Raine or not.

Bad Laguna, no cookie....

*nods*
Yeah, sarcasm was probably not the right word, but a "not liking the way the conversation was going" is what I had in mind when I said it. :) I also agree that I think Laguna is more to blame for the falling through of that relationship since he never contacted Julia, although I still think he held dissapointment over the fact she didn't wait forever. Not that I expected her to.

So to summarise. Laguna and Julia weren't ripped apart by cicrumstances. They were ripped apart by Laguna's stupidity and lack of interest.
There children would have been ripped apart by Squall's stupidity and lack of interest had Rinoa not been desperate and posessed by evil.

It's so romantic.

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Laguna and Julia weren't ripped apart by cicrumstances. They were ripped apart by Laguna's stupidity and lack of interest.

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Well... that, and the fact that he nearly died and had to deal with the small matter of recovering. What was he supposed to do...

"Hi Raine. Thanks for nursing me back to health, but I'm going to go now without repaying your kindness, because there's this singer in the capital city I've got a crush on."

Laguna's a shy individual, not very confident with women, so he probably didn't realise just how much he meant to Julia and never expected her to wait for him.
He kind of got swept away by events in Winhill and Esthar, too. He couldn't just walk away and risk/sacrifice the lives of others just to pursue romantic possibilities.

He left her for work. Didn't attempt to contact her, or even tell Raine how important she was, or try and make it back to Galbadia.
I'm not saying it would have been easy, but for real love he could have at least tried.

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Originally posted by Big D
Well... that, and the fact that he nearly died and had to deal with the small matter of recovering. What was he supposed to do...

"Hi Raine. Thanks for nursing me back to health, but I'm going to go now without repaying your kindness, because there's this singer in the capital city I've got a crush on."

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Well no. But nobody says he's gotta wait till he's back to full health. As soon as he can speak he could ask her to get the mesage to Deling City that he was still alive. It's not like he was married to her, but there had been an agreement for another meeting. There was a clear mutul romantic interest. He should have mentioned it to Raine early on. That would have killed any romance with Raine before it began (so it wouldn't be emotionally painful for Raine) and I sincerely doubt Raine would have wanted him to stay, if she knew another woman was waiting for him. And the rest of the village? They wanted him out ASAP.

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Laguna's a shy individual, not very confident with women, so he probably didn't realise just how much he meant to Julia and never expected her to wait for him.

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And that weakness caused Julia much pain.

He kind of got swept away by events in Winhill and Esthar, too. He couldn't just walk away and risk/sacrifice the lives of others just to pursue romantic possibilities. [/QUOTE]

Granted. He couldn't walk away of Adel. For one, he had promised to help defeat Adel in exchange for help in saving Ellone. But why didn't he return afterwards? It wasn't like Esthar would collapse if he would leave right? And after he pushed a mega-powerful Sorceress to her doom with his own two hands, I THINK we can safely say he's paid his debt to the Esthar people for helping him free Ellone. But he became president of Esthar. Now TWO possibilities

A: He expected Ellone to return to Raine, not knowing Raine had died giving birth to Squall in the meantime. Bad marks for NOT returning to his wife after paying back his debt to the Esthari people.

B: He DID know about Raine's death in childbirth. WORSE marks, as he might not desert his wife, but he DID desert his son. Granted, that son was probably already in the oprhanage for a while by the time he could honorably return (after Adel's death) but I'm sure Edea would trust him with parenthood of Squall (and if he's fast, with Sis) Heck, the least he could do was giving his son some sign that he was still alive.

Don't get me wrong. I LIKE Laguna. But the man is NOT morally perfect. In a way, his problem is the opposite of Squall. Squall doesn't make any attachements to people. Laguna makes them too easily, and forgets old attachements in favour of the new ones. He abbandoned Julia to Raine, and Squall to Esthar.

Stop using his work as a soldier as an excuse. Did you ever talk to Julia's bodyguard in the bar? He was a higher officer than Julia. He actually threatened Laguna for going near Julia by saying he'd ship Laguna off far, far away from Deling. At least... I think so...

Question!
what happened to Julia after she gave birth to Rinoa?

Julia probably just took care of Rinoa while her father was away with the military. Thats probably why she never hard any bad feelings for her mother in fact she felt Rinoa said that she use to feel most comfortable when her Mom was holding her.

Hmmm...If I'am not mistakin, Julia must be deceased because Rinoa uses the past tense when she talkes about her mother.:cry:

Oh she's dead alright. But I dont remember it saying just when exactly she died. Julia may have gotten sick somewhere down the line and passed on because of it.

Julia died in a car accident when Rinoa was about five years old.:cry:
It's in the Tutorial somewhere...

You have a lot of good information, D. I agree Rinoa and Squall are definetly NOT siblings. I think Laguna and Julia definetly were attracted to each other, but it wasn't meant to be, they each found someone else. I think Laguna and Raine fell in love all on their own. Laguna loved Raine, and acted as a father to Ellone. Then Laguna married Raine, and had Squall with her. Laguna seems like such a cool guy until he totally abandons his own son! I don't understand why he just left Squall and Ellone like that. I don't understand why they made his character like that, it just doesn't seem to fit. You would think that after losing Raine, Laguna would want to be even closer with his son and stepdaughter.

mmmm... This is about squalls dad so...

Celes Laguna demonstrated the will to see his little elleone, but fate played the cards against him so many times. It seems that every time that Laguna managed to track down elle, he was marginally late. By the time Squall meets Laguna many years have past and we see a bit of a mixed reaction. Elle is happy to see Laguna, while Squall can only see the man as the father he never had. Squall and Laguna do not connect on the personal level, but in nature they connect absolutely. The Mooba blood scene, the shumis, ragnarok, the sorceress wars and the repeated love.. i.e. Squall and Rinoa complete the chain of Laguna and Julia.. demonstrate the cyclical nature of events.

Although pheonix somehow manages to maintain that these events are all due to a poorly written plot, one can see that these works would have been impossible on a conscious level. The relationship between Tidus and Jecht was overt, forced and obvious...FF8 capture the fallen son theme perfectly, and in an ironical twist it is the son who unwittingly rejects his father not by ignoring him, but by forsaking him on account of his personality. Laguna represents the traits that Squall despises and if Squall has a conscious knowledge of who his father actually is (it is debatable) Squall chooses on his own instincts, not to embrace Laguna.

One could say that this is a condition of teenage attitude (rejecting ones parents....yes that fits nicely) OR one could say that it is an extension of the Platonic forms... The more equal things become the less equal they actually are, and it seems that Laguna and Squall are very equal in many ways, yet they seem so very distant.


By the way.... Have you ever wondered why its Rinoa Heartly and not Caraway? Perhaps Julia used her sir name on the birth certificate for Rinoa...since she did not know Lagunas sir name.

At least in ff8 we can debate mad things like this, all I see in the other FF forums is descriptions and argument.
(except for cases like Sephiroth the king could beat shinobi in an arm-wrestle)