Vincent Immortal?

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04-30-2005, 09:14 PM
Mercen-X

Quote:

Originally Posted by theundeadhero

In the game it mentions that the ancients that were infected with the Jenova disease turned into monsters. He was married to Lucretia. Lucretia was pregnant with Hojo's baby during the time of Hojo's experimentations. Vincent let Hojo inject his unborn child with Jenova cells (that was within his wife). This child was Sephiroth. The sin that Vincent mentions he needs to attone for is Sephiroth getting injected like that. Hojo is in fact Sephiroth's father. Somewhere along the line Vincent decided against this experiment and Hojo shot him. Vincent could have left earlier but didn't. When Cloud sees him Vincent decides that maybe it is time he did something about it so thats why he joins the group.

None of this explains Vincent's awesome gear.
Vincent never mentioned any union between he and Lucretia. Lucretia never mentioned any union between she and Hojo. I've already seen that part where she talks about the exp but I don't remember her mentioning anything about love. She was devoted to Hojo and his work. Vincent admired and loved Lucretia from afar like a loyal knight. He tried to reason with Lucretia about the exp, he never said anything about professing his love for her.
I don't recall anything in the game mentioning the J-Cells having a Lazarus effect (resurrection) on the dearly departed as it's been suggested by one in this thread.
05-01-2005, 12:52 AM
Squall of SeeD

As has been established, Vincent and Lucrecia were not married. He loved her. She didn't love him and loved Hojo. That case is closed.

As for the matter of Vincent's death, the Ehrgeiz instruction booklet says that he died. It being a game that Tetsuya Nomura also worked on, as well as considering the nature of Vincent's wound (a gunshot to the chest) and that he is now ageless, it seems likely to me that he died and was brought back to life through experimentation, as the Ehrgeiz booklet says:

Quote:

An ex-gunman of the Shinra Intelligence Sector (The Turks) who has had a dark past and was put to sleep in the Shinra Mansion. After being killed by someone within the Shinra Mansion, Vincent underwent anatomic reconstruction, and was brought back to life. He now possesses new and improved abilities beyond those of normal men.
05-01-2005, 01:01 AM
Masamune·1600

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Vincent never mentioned any union between he and Lucretia. Lucretia never mentioned any union between she and Hojo. I've already seen that part where she talks about the exp but I don't remember her mentioning anything about love. She was devoted to Hojo and his work. Vincent admired and loved Lucretia from afar like a loyal knight. He tried to reason with Lucretia about the exp, he never said anything about professing his love for her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by masamune1600

When Vincent encounters Lucrecia in the waterfall cave, we see a flashback that includes Lucrecia apparently crying and running away after Vincent attempts to give her something, which I can only presume is an engagement ring. Immediately after (in terms of flashback), we see Hojo and Lucrecia kissing. Vincent responds to this by saying, "If she is happy then...I don't mind." That whole scene is hidden, so it's relatively easy to forget.

The fact that Vincent tried to offer her the ring is pretty much indicative of the fact that he loved her. Similarly, Lucrecia wouldn't have been kissing Hojo if she didn't love him, a fact attested to by Vincent's line "If she is happy then....I don't mind."

As to Vincent not expressing love for Lucrecia when Hojo prepares for the Jenova injection, he was certainly looking out for her best interests. As he had said earlier, however, the most important thing to him was that Lucrecia be happy. This would have even outweighed the two of them being together, and might explain he didn't pursue the Jenova issue further than he did at that particular time.
05-01-2005, 01:25 AM
Mercen-X

Quote:

Originally Posted by masamune1600

The fact that Vincent tried to offer her the ring is pretty much indicative of the fact that he loved her. Similarly, Lucrecia wouldn't have been kissing Hojo if she didn't love him, a fact attested to by Vincent's line "If she is happy then...I don't mind."

1: I was merely saying that none of these three were ever MARRIED, especially not Vincent and Hojo (:laughing:That there's a joke, son). You people are assuming too much based on what you're seeing as opposed to what you've read. You cannot honestly ascertain anything simply by looking at the screen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD

An ex-gunman of the Shinra Intelligence Sector (The Turks) who has had a dark past and was put to sleep in the Shinra Mansion. After being killed by someone within the Shinra Mansion, Vincent underwent anatomic reconstruction, and was brought back to life. He now possesses new and improved abilities beyond those of normal men.

2: The information given about the FF characters in Ehrgeiz is incomplete, inaccurate, and unreliable. Despite the fact that Tetsuya Nomura was involved in the game, it does not make their appearances any less a cameo than their appearances in KH. I, of course, know that Tifa and Vincent were not in KH.
05-01-2005, 02:14 AM
Squall of SeeD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercen-X

2: The information given about the FF characters in Ehrgeiz is incomplete, inaccurate, and unreliable. Despite the fact that Tetsuya Nomura was involved in the game, it does not make their appearances any less a cameo than their appearances in KH. I, of course, know that Tifa and Vincent were not in KH.

The only information there that I would regard as inaccurate is that given about Cloud, which is obviously intentionally inaccurate so as to not spoil the major aspect of VII's plot involving the truth of his past.

In any event, I'm not talking about their appearances at all. Just the information in the booklet.
05-01-2005, 02:17 AM
Mercen-X

By appearance, I mean the fact that they are there in Ehrgeiz.
05-01-2005, 02:25 AM
Masamune·1600

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercen-X

You people are assuming too much based on what you're seeing as opposed to what you've read. You cannot honestly ascertain anything simply by looking at the screen.

One of the things that separates a video game from a book with no pictoral components is the fact that some information is necessarily conveyed via graphical display. If you were to analyze FFVII based solely on the script, you would be able to ascertain quite a bit of information, but you would also miss out on a lot, including a number of critical elements. Certain ideas were obviously intended to be suggested by means of graphical representation, as is the case in all video games (text adventures aside). This fact applies here. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.
05-01-2005, 02:26 AM
Luthien Rogue

Quote:

1: I was merely saying that none of these three were ever MARRIED, especially not Vincent and Hojo (That there's a joke, son). You people are assuming too much based on what you're seeing as opposed to what you've read. You cannot honestly ascertain anything simply by looking at the screen.

First, your side-splitting jokes make me feel all tingly inside. I think you are my new best friend. Second, you're right; these people are assuming too much (even though they never suggested Hojo and Lucrecia marrying... yeah..)! These simpletons know nothing, X. We are beyond them. Your FF7 theories are so well thought-out and plausible, that I think you should present them as fact, rather than theories! Really. You are amazing. I think we should start an FF7 site where you can post your wonderful theories. Please?

Quote:

2: The information given about the FF characters in Ehrgeiz is incomplete, inaccurate, and unreliable. Despite the fact that Tetsuya Nomura was involved in the game, it does not make their appearances any less a cameo than their appearances in KH. I, of course, know that Tifa and Vincent were not in KH.

SO TRUE!
05-01-2005, 05:41 AM
theundeadhero

Quote:

(even though they never suggested Hojo and Lucrecia marrying... yeah..)!

Whether they were married or not the game specifically states it was their baby.
05-01-2005, 07:49 AM
Mercen-X

Nobody's debating that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luthien Rogue

First, your side-splitting jokes make me feel all tingly inside. I think you are my new best friend. You are amazing. I think we should start an FF7 site where you can post your wonderful theories. Please?

Mercy and Luthy: :beer: How's this? Do you have another preference? Perhaps :kiss: or :lovers: . . . they don't have a plutonic smilie aside from that first one but you're not old enough to drink . . . neither am I but I actually don't plan to drink next year when I am old enough.

I want to work alongside Square Enix. I want to create my own company for games and have the staff at Square Enix as my friends and colleagues, collaborating on various undertakings that are destined to change the world in no small way. They would no doubt be blinded my brilliance as well. hehehehe. I'm damn conceited.

I still want to know how people plan to thwart my theory of him taking leave of the mansion in a state of dilirium. Who (and why) would say that Hojo gave Vincent his gear?
05-02-2005, 03:09 AM
Squall of SeeD

[Edited for misunderstanding.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luthien Rogue

First, your side-splitting jokes make me feel all tingly inside. I think you are my new best friend. You are amazing. I think we should start an FF7 site where you can post your wonderful theories. Please?

Mercy and Luthy: :beer: How's this? Do you have another preference? Perhaps :kiss: or :lovers: . . . they don't have a plutonic smilie aside from that first one but you're not old enough to drink . . . neither am I but I actually don't plan to drink next year when I am old enough.

...
05-02-2005, 05:39 AM
theundeadhero

Quote:

Except it doesn't, instead specifically stating that it was Hojo and Lucrecia's baby

Yeah, that what I said.
05-02-2005, 06:17 AM
Squall of SeeD

Quote:

Originally Posted by theundeadhero

Quote:

Except it doesn't, instead specifically stating that it was Hojo and Lucrecia's baby

Yeah, that what I said.

Ah, right. Sorry. Looked at the wrong Post, then saw yours. My apologies.
05-02-2005, 07:08 AM
Mercen-X

Quote:

Originally Posted by masamune1600

If you were to analyze FFVII based solely on the script, you would be able to ascertain quite a bit of information, but you would also miss out on a lot, including a number of critical elements.

Actually, the in-game script would have included all the graphical scenes as a script isn't restricted to dialogue. However, scanning through the treatment for all graphical work would resolve any mystery that was born onscreen.

I've worked on screenplays quite a lot in Film Class, which is I why I act like such a smartie. :D
05-02-2005, 07:18 AM
Masamune·1600

Script was intended as pure dialogue; this relates to your original idea that all that is depicted graphically can be discarded. A script that exists in that detail (with a full graphical explanation) doesn't seem to be available to the public. If one looks to any game translation or script available on the Internet, one will find the dialogue, and descriptions of the game based on interpretation of the graphics. Visual displays cannot be discounted.

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