Flag at half-mast for Pope?

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Originally Posted by Marick

And he has also caused many people to be hated. homosexuals for instance were declared a part of the ideology of evil. The man was not helpful to the world at all. He told others how to run their lives, was close minded, and above all else, feeble. In his last 6-7 years as pope, all he did was read statements made by the Council of Cardinals, because in the end, he has no real power after his health reaches a certain stage. That is because he is thought to be incapable of making rational and clear ideas for the church itself.

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Agreed.

Also, I'd like to point out that the pope didn't have to follow any of the doctrines of the church, he chose to. You shouldn't say "I want to be Catholic" and then join the church and get told what to think(although sadly that happens quite often), you should have a belief structure and find a religion or whatnot that works with that. No one made the pope hate gays, hate birth control or love Jesus, he made a concious choice to do that. So when you say that he had to do these things, no, he did not. Not only was he the man with the power to try and make changes if he saw them necessary, he could always step down if he didn't agree with the church, or not even become the pope for that matter. The pope became the pope because he agreed with all of the church's teachings 110%.

Reading "Pope" next "hate" is simultaneously funny and completely antithetical, and shows how little you know of the Catholic beliefs. That said, some catholics forget about that aspect too. If you were him and were convinced to your core that making them stop *insert behavior condemned by the Church is how you will save them because you wish their good, would you let them go to hell or try to save them? Personally, while Roman Catholic, I disagreed with some of these aspects (homosexuality, birth control are okay to me, for example), but I know that the Pope doesn't say this or that because he "hates" people. Also, the doctrine will evolve, it's slow, but it's happened before and will happen in the future.

About having a belief structure and finding the religion that fits... good luck.

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Originally Posted by Endless

Also, the doctrine will evolve, it's slow, but it's happened before and will happen in the future.

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Slow's one way of wording it. Since they admitted the world is round about 40 years ago, homosexuality will be embraced by the church around the year 2400.

the leader of 1 billion catholics dies and you think that the USA showing a mark of respect is out of order, i think you neglect the importance of the man.

Importance is relative.

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

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Originally Posted by Endless

Also, the doctrine will evolve, it's slow, but it's happened before and will happen in the future.

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Slow's one way of wording it. Since they admitted the world is round about 40 years ago, homosexuality will be embraced by the church around the year 2400.

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It was admitted long before, it's only the formal recognition that took long. Same goes with priests, I know a lot who interpret differently (read: disagree) the doctrine and what people should be allowed to do. These are the ones who matter imho, and that you conveniently ignore.

i think you'll find that america is currently in the non isolationist period of it's international relations cycle so it is quite relative.

I can see how it would anger you that flags are at half cast for Pope John Paul II, but Imo its understandable, he was a great person and was very influential. Honouring people but lowering your flag to half cast should be open to anybody, not just American citizens.

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Originally Posted by Endless

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

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Originally Posted by Endless

Also, the doctrine will evolve, it's slow, but it's happened before and will happen in the future.

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Slow's one way of wording it. Since they admitted the world is round about 40 years ago, homosexuality will be embraced by the church around the year 2400.

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It was admitted long before, it's only the formal recognition that took long. Same goes with priests, I know a lot who interpret differently (read: disagree) the doctrine and what people should be allowed to do. These are the ones who matter imho, and that you conveniently ignore.

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Regardless of whomelse I ignore or recognize, the pope's the one I'm talking about here, and he didn't help.

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

He (and his church) regularly told followers that if they didn't act a certain way, like vote for certain politicians, they were going to hell.

He (and his church) condemn any form of birth control, including condoms, even when only worn for protection against STD's. Many third world countries are highly catholic and STD's are spreading at an alarming rate, even among married (non-promiscuous) people, and for fear of hell and damnation they don't use condom's, even furthering the problem.

He (and his church's) doctrine are designed to promote the catholic church and increase it's population, not to spread the word of God.

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Note the "and his church" at each line.

Fair enough.

The Pope made sweeping changes in the Catholic Church, including many of the things that anti-Catholics hated most about it, and perhaps most importantly (especially in the preception of non-Catholics like myself), his work in secular matters. He helped to smash Communism--not only through Solidarity in Poland, but all over the world, and thus bring down an empire that made the Nazis look like pikers.

It wouldn't matter if the Pope was Catholic, Southern Baptist, Muslim, or Atheist--he did a lot of great things, and the man deserves some respect.

i wouldn't stop watching that channel.see:
my aunt married the pope's cousen and my whole family are in tears.i can't believe that he died.

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The Pope made sweeping changes in the Catholic Church, including many of the things that anti-Catholics hated most about it, and perhaps most importantly (especially in the preception of non-Catholics like myself), his work in secular matters. He helped to smash Communism--not only through Solidarity in Poland, but all over the world, and thus bring down an empire that made the Nazis look like pikers.

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But wait...I thought Reagan brought down communism all by himself?

I think the death of the Pope is enough of a moment of international mourning to warrant the American flag at half mast.