Liberal Media?

Quote:

---

never understood why tht was, but I'll bet that most of your family is considerably more conservative than the Democrats your supporting. (as for the Democrats being more beneficial towards the black and the Jewish community... where does that leave Al Sharpton?). But as a black baptist, how do you reconcile your party's endorsement of religion? As a black person, who oppose abortion and homosexual marriage by something like 65% and 85%, how do you accept the Democrats embrasure of both concept? How to black folks, who have similiarily high support of school vouchers, put up with the Democrats deciding that's not what they really want? And if you get the chance sometime, you ought to look the statements of Margaret Sanger regarding abortion--it's no accident that America's first abortion mill was set up in Harlem.

---

Well one thing about abortion is I support it due to the fact that really people who don't want kids shouldn't have and raise one.The kid will go through too much mess if the parent is too irresponsible.And rather a mother to be gets an abortion is what determines rather they want a kid or not when they are pregnant.Really I'm pro choice for it simply put I have respect for what others wish to do with their lives and I don't tell them how to live there life and make choices.Yes as a christain my job is to spread teh word but Once I tell them the good news and invit ethem to come to a service.If they do not want to come you can't force them to come which is why I'm pro life for the same reasons.IF they don't want a kid they don't deserve it and if a kid is to be saved from abortion then really its up to god.

With homosexual marriage personally I think its wrong but thats a persons choice and not the gov. choice.And what ever that person chooses to do is really between themselves and god.The government shouldn't interven on that.And really I'm 17 trying to bust my ass studying for two standardise test and I really don't get much time to do some research.Right now I need to finish this english work I have.I will read up on Margaret.

Quote:

---

The actions of a few in the public eye? Alright, let's hear it, then--which liberals are supportive of Christianity?

---

I am.
I dislike the actions of some who use christianity as an excuse, but I have no real problems with the religion.

Quote:

---

I dislike the actions of some who use christianity as an excuse, but I have no real problems with the religion.

---

I agree with this. Christianity is truly a great thing. However, the way it is twisted today, and the way that the important parts are just plain ignored, makes me not very supportive of the christians, most of which seem to be christian by name alone.

Quote:

---

I agree with this. Christianity is truly a great thing. However, the way it is twisted today, and the way that the important parts are just plain ignored, makes me not very supportive of the christians, most of which seem to be christian by name alone.

---

Got a quote you might like.

Playwright George Bernard Shaw, on Christianity-

Quote:

---

"I don't know; it might work if anyone ever tried it".

---

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Redneck

Quote:

---

I'm not even arguing with someone who's taking what I said completely out of context.

---

Anybody who gives what you posted even the most cursory examination will easily see that it was not in the slightest taken out of context--if you don't have a leg to stand on then by all means take your ball and go home, but there's no need to slander me while you're at it.

Quote:

---

Has it ever occured to you that rampant stereotyping of "liberals" based on the actions of a few in the public eye might not actually be correct?

---

The actions of a few in the public eye? Alright, let's hear it, then--which liberals are supportive of Christianity?

---

lets see the african american community thats democrats and especially in the south there are rarely anime african americans that dont have a religion or isnt in the christain fate.There are people and its really for there personal views not from who said what to whom and how they said it.
Most christain republicans are white to tell you the truth heck most republicans are white.There are minorities that are republicans but not as many as there are white republicans.And for those whom are confused with what is racism blah blah blah blah blah.I'm not being racist I'm just stating a few facts/observations.Since Racism is the expression of hatred towards a group of people.I'm not racist for saying african american or white.jsut because i said it.And there are a few 16 year old suburban kids who come on here and will call me a racist because i said what i said in this post so to keep those idiots room saying that I went ahead and said it in advance.Oh yeah there will be one smart guy who thinks it will be funny to say racist anyway well it will kinda.lol.

The point I'm trying to make is that the Republicans have less christain values than the democratic party.I mean the Republicans are against social programs.Stuff that helps people.Because you think someone on welfare is just a dead beat.I mean wtf?No scripture in the bible has ever said you get to choose the ones you help.You pay the tax and get over it because there may be a single parent whose soul provider left her and has to raise 4 children on her own and can only get a job that pays $4.50 a week and she may work multiple times but that welfare helps a great deal for people whom are in that situation..(A message to all republicans that are christains from a fellow democratic christain).

Quote:

---

So wait a minute, clinton is still guilty even though we found evidence of "associates" doing things. Look had there been any way that clinton was involved in criminal activity, any one of these associates would have gladly taken a plea deal to testify against clinton. Or is he a Sith lord brainwashing them to the point where they are willing to spend years in jail rather than testify to clinton's guilt? I really don't think Clinton knows the jedi mind trick

---

No, but he knows how to issue pardons. And look up Web Hubbel's $400,000 payoff sometime.

Quote:

---

We don't do guilt by association in this country.

---

Tell that to Bush and Big Oil (boooo! Hissss!)

Quote:

---

Even the Ventura quotes mentioned by others. Saying that you don't believe in Christianity is not anti-christian any more than saying that I don't believe that Muhammad is a prophet somehow automatically makes me hostile to Islam

---

The problem being that Ventura did not say he doesn't believe in Christianity. He said it's a "crutch for weak-minded people".

Quote:

---

Which is why Jennifer Flowers is a household name.

The "groping thing" lasted maybe a week. Clinton's accusations went on for probably at least 8 months.

---

The 'groping thing' lasted significantly longer than a week. Clinton's accusations, on the other hand, went on for such a long time because he spent a few years obstructing justice. When you refuse to answer subpoenas, it delays the process a bit.

Quote:

---

Amazingly I've never heard any of these charges. You must be reading some pretty far-left papers.

---

Well, they were in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the LA Times... so in otherwords--yeah, pretty much.

Quote:

---

Redneck, you can throw as many data as you wish, that still dosen't proove any point.

---

I'll keep that in mind.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

The actions of a few in the public eye? Alright, let's hear it, then--which liberals are supportive of Christianity?

---

I am.

---

Which is why you believe...

Quote:

---

don't know about the poor and uneducated thing, but the "easy to command" is definetly the truth. (As the Republicans have proved over these past two elections)

---

and

Quote:

---

And that is just what Christians tend to do. Hate people, and then hide behind the Bible and use it as an excuse.

---

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Quote:

---

No, it was taken out of context. That isn't arguable.

---

Let's review: Lordblazer said that he gets offended when people think Christians should be conservative. I replied that maybe this is because it's hard to concieve of a Christian supporting a faction so hostile to Christianity (being liberalism). DMKA commented that "Yeah, because we know killing sinners and hating people for being gay or having a child born out of wedlock is what christianity is all about eh?" This is probably going to give me a headache, but I'll bite: So he was just adding his comment to a back-and-forth about liberalism vs. conservatism as it concerns religion by making general commentary on nothing in particular?

Quote:

---

really people who don't want kids shouldn't have and raise one.

---

Oh, I agree. But the answer isn't to kill off the kids, the answer is to excersize a little personal responsibility. It's not impossible to not have sex, even in today's society.

Quote:

---

And really I'm 17 trying to bust my ass studying for two standardise test and I really don't get much time to do some research.Right now I need to finish this english work I have.I will read up on Margaret.

---

I can definitely understand that. The ghist of it is that Sanger pushed abortion for the reason that it would help "control the Negro population". Not being exactly enlightened, Ms. Sanger figured having less black folks around was a good thing, and abortion was a good way to make it happen. That's why not just the first, but the first several abortion clinics were set up in Harlem and other black neighborhoods.

Quote:

---

Most christain republicans are white to tell you the truth heck most republicans are white.There are minorities that are republicans but not as many as there are white republicans.And for those whom are confused with what is racism blah blah blah blah blah.I'm not being racist I'm just stating a few facts/observations.Since Racism is the expression of hatred towards a group of people.I'm not racist for saying african american or white.jsut because i said it.

---

Naw, that's cool. That ~is~ the situation. However, the number of minority Republicans is growing--politically, the Democrat party has been taking them for granted. Like I mentioned, look at three of the biggest issues of the black community--homosexual marriage, abortion, school vouchers. The Democratic party told more than 60% of them "Too bad--hell, we know you're gonna vote for us anyway, so screw you." There's only so much longer that "You're gonna get lynched if they actually get control of the country" is gonna work.

Quote:

---

The point I'm trying to make is that the Republicans have less christain values than the democratic party.I mean the Republicans are against social programs.Stuff that helps people.

---

This isn't exactly the case. Republicans are fine with helping people. Hell, I spent a summer working with the Chattahootchie Baptist Association (if you wanna look it up, just check "Georgia Baptist Associations" because I just know I absolutely butchered the spelling of Chattahootchie"....), and that's what we did all week--handed out food, vouchers to pay for furniture or car repairs, gave rides... (I also got some free food; some of the stuff that Publix was givin' way. Nothin' quite like having Ramen for dinner, with gourmet hand-baked French Bread on the side.) Taking our money and using it to help people is absolutely great. Our problem is with someone else taking away money, wasting the great majority of it, and throwing the rest in the general direction of someone who may or may not need it.

Moreover, I've worked in a grocery store before, when I was struggling my way through college. I've seen people on welfare, and the vast majority of them ate a lot better than I do. Nothing like watching someone use your money to buy T-Bone steaks and Ben & Jerry's ice cream, then use their own money to get a few cases of beer, then pile it into their brand-new car... then finish up your shift, go home to a trailer that costs less than most of those cars, and have macaroni and cheese for dinner. (Mac & Cheese, a can of Cream of Mushroom soup, and a can of cheap tuna--dinner for less than $1.50, and that's what I ate just about every night back then. I've never had Ben & Jerry's ice cream; I can't afford it. Not for myself, at least...)

There's also no scripture in the Bible that names someone righteous for stealing someone else's money and using it for a good cause.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Redneck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Redneck

Quote:

---

The actions of a few in the public eye? Alright, let's hear it, then--which liberals are supportive of Christianity?

---

I am.

---

Which is why you believe...

Quote:

---

don't know about the poor and uneducated thing, but the "easy to command" is definetly the truth. (As the Republicans have proved over these past two elections)

---

and

Quote:

---

And that is just what Christians tend to do. Hate people, and then hide behind the Bible and use it as an excuse.

---

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

---

I expected you to reply to that message in the way that you did. As usual, you took something that you find to be offensive, and tried to turn it into something anti christian. Sorry, but im not about to let that tactic work against me.

Christianity and Christians are two different things. The "easy to control" thing works with any religious person. Actually, a more appropriate term would be idiot. A religious person may not be easy to control or decieve, but a religious idiot most certainly is. Seeing as how most people are idiots, it would be logical to assume that most religious people are idiots. Go into a religious setting, and hey! what do you know?! It's surround with idiots! A religious idiot is particularily easy to control because all you have to do is use the word "bible" (or well, anything he or she associates with thier religion.) And they tend to back whatever the issue is, one hundred percent, with no thought whatsoever. Religion is manipulated so that leaders can get the people to follow blindly. (More often than not, what the leader is trying to accomplish is anything but religious)

Now, this seems pretty insulting if you are a christian. (Well, if you're a stupid Christian, that is) However, it in no way is offensive to Christianity. In fact, nothing about the religion was brought up, aside from the fact that a good portion of it's followers are stupid. (And that doesn't have anything to do with the faith anyway)

Quote:

---

And that is just what Christians tend to do. Hate people, and then hide behind the Bible and use it as an excuse.

---

Again, in what way is this offensive in regards to christianity? Christians, like most people, are hateful bigots. Not because they are christian, but simply because they are hateful bigots. In our society, however, being a hateful bigot is not okay. If they try to hide behind the Bible, they can feel some sense of justification, and not feel as if they were a hateful bigot. (Be
cause nobody wants to be the badguy)

Again, nothing I have said is offensive to the christian faith, it's just offensive to the morons who abuse that faith. (And it was intended to be offensive to those people)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Redneck

Quote:

---

I'm not even arguing with someone who's taking what I said completely out of context.

---

Anybody who gives what you posted even the most cursory examination will easily see that it was not in the slightest taken out of context--if you don't have a leg to stand on then by all means take your ball and go home, but there's no need to slander me while you're at it.

---

Then what are you saying? That you lack common knowledge of what you claim to support? That you've never heard of that thing called the death penalty?ZODKMSGOGMSGPSGMGPMP!~!~

And again, you need to pickup your dictonary...you need to look up liberal and you also need to look up slander (which is what you've done to me every single time you've ever quoted me from what I can recall).

I don't get how people like you can just throw every single last person who happens to be a free thinker and not agree with you into a big bucket and stamp "antichristian liberals" across it. You yell at liberals for supporting abortion because it's killing and you're "pro-life", then you turn around and support the death penalty and shooting people dead. You yell at them for being supposedly "anti-christian" when infact most of them ARE christians and then you're basically anti every other religion, and you can't say you aren't when you're setting there putting your religious beliefs into political issues which in turn ends up pressing your religious values upon everyone else and then all the other faiths are just pushed off to the side and ignored.

Just because someone isn't Christian and doesn't agree with it thus wanting things that conflict with it hardly makes them anti-Christian. It's like saying every white person hates black people. And again, if half the people who are conservative that claim to be Christian actually knew what Christianity was, they wouldn't be conservative.

But like I said, I'm not arguing any futher with you, because you seem to lack any thought other than "OMG I AM RIGHT AND ALL YOU DIRTY STUPID LIBERALS ARE JUST ALL THE SAME STUPIDS!"...so whatever.

DMKA, give it up, you're outdone.

This all boils down to what can be considered Christianity. A lot of people will say they're Christian, hell maybe even go to church once a week. But liberalism and support of Biblical values are contradictory, as The Redneck has pointed out. Homosexual marriage, abortion, school vouchers, "welfare" (i.e. stealing my money to give to somebody that isn't much worse off than I am, and it's their own damn fault anyway), and more and more. (By the way, I support welfare, but only for the people that need it--it's not our responsibility to support poor people, it's theirs, we might just need to help 'em out...and by the way, a very large percentage of people on welfare are there because they turned to drugs and/or alcohol, or simply were too damn lazy to make anything of themselves. Not because thier husband left them with four children she can't support. Just like--and this may surprise you too--the majority of strippers really aren't just trying to support their young children and working their way through college.)

Anyway, like I was saying, it depends on what people would consider "Christian". If I say I'm a communist, but don't support any Communist ideals or principles, am I really a Communist? If I say I'm a liberal, but support only conservative policies, am I really a liberal? Is somebody who says they're Christian, but doesn't let any Christian beliefs show in their voting or support, really a Christian, or are they just hiding behind religion, doing the same thing they accuse others of doing? And should these people be grouped in with the rest of "Christianity" or the "religious right"? (How come we don't hear about the "religious left"?)

nik0tine, you started off by saying you're a liberal "Christian", then went on to badmouth Christians, saying we're easy to control and that we hate people and hide behind the Bible. While it is not my place to question your faith, and that's not what I'm doing, you are a prime example of the people that lead people to think Christianity is not a partisan religion. If anybody truly believed the Bible--and no, I'm not talking about hiding behind it, I'm talking about believing it--they would go nowhere near modern liberalism.

Sasquatch, did you even read what nik0tine wrote? He said that Christians are idiots to the same degree that all people are idiots. He said that those idiots that happen to be Christian are easy to control because they will swallow whatever lies you tell them as long as you couch them in biblical rhetoric. That's not a denunciation of Christianity, it's a denunciation of those who would manipulate Christianity for their own personal and irreligious aims. There's a huge difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

DMKA, give it up, you're outdone.

This all boils down to what can be considered Christianity. A lot of people will say they're Christian, hell maybe even go to church once a week. But liberalism and support of Biblical values are contradictory, as The Redneck has pointed out. Homosexual marriage, abortion, school vouchers, "welfare" (i.e. stealing my money to give to somebody that isn't much worse off than I am, and it's their own damn fault anyway), and more and more. (By the way, I support welfare, but only for the people that need it--it's not our responsibility to support poor people, it's theirs, we might just need to help 'em out...and by the way, a very large percentage of people on welfare are there because they turned to drugs and/or alcohol, or simply were too damn lazy to make anything of themselves. Not because thier husband left them with four children she can't support. Just like--and this may surprise you too--the majority of strippers really aren't just trying to support their young children and working their way through college.)

Anyway, like I was saying, it depends on what people would consider "Christian". If I say I'm a communist, but don't support any Communist ideals or principles, am I really a Communist? If I say I'm a liberal, but support only conservative policies, am I really a liberal? Is somebody who says they're Christian, but doesn't let any Christian beliefs show in their voting or support, really a Christian, or are they just hiding behind religion, doing the same thing they accuse others of doing? And should these people be grouped in with the rest of "Christianity" or the "religious right"? (How come we don't hear about the "religious left"?)

nik0tine, you started off by saying you're a liberal "Christian", then went on to badmouth Christians, saying we're easy to control and that we hate people and hide behind the Bible. While it is not my place to question your faith, and that's not what I'm doing, you are a prime example of the people that lead people to think Christianity is not a partisan religion. If anybody truly believed the Bible--and no, I'm not talking about hiding behind it, I'm talking about believing it--they would go nowhere near modern liberalism.

---

Well your voting record doesn't show you are christian either and nor do your beliefs. Support of the death penalty, wars, the intolorance of others beliefs, the flat tax and other things(I admit I am streaching this one but if we are suppose to give up riches and possesions in order to help those less fotunate then we should sky rocket the tax on the rich).

I streached that last one just like the right streaches gay marriage. They are not being married under God so it isn't a true marriage they way it is being thought about. Instead it is discriminating against your fellow man. You are denying them rights that other couples have. No one is saying they need to be married under God. Just let them be married under the state.

If anybody truly believed the Bible--and no, I'm not talking about hiding behind it, I'm talking about believing it--they would go nowhere near modern conservatism.

In the real end though...niether side is good so to claim other wise is just turning the other way. Hear no evil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

And should these people be grouped in with the rest of "Christianity" or the "religious right"? (How come we don't hear about the "religious left"?)

---

I haven't heard of any religious left, but I have heard of the "Teología de la liberación" (Theology of liberation) wich is a modern theological movement, mixing some marxist principles with other political beliefs and Christianity. It started off in 1968 in Colombia, and the most famous manifesto is "Historia, Política y Salvación de Una Teología de Liberación" (History, Politics and Salvation of a Theology of Liberation) written in Peru by the priest Gustavo Gutiérrez in 1973.

The Theology of Liberation is more or less faith turned into praxis, attempt to create a civitas Dei on earth by fighting the "structures of sin" that seem to mantain the current misery and poverty in the world.

Of course, this also brings problems, because it is a marxist sector of the church, and this has risen a lot of criticism from the conservative sectors. Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope, wrote in 1998 quite an interesting article critizizing the Theology of Liberation. I don't agree with him, but I must admit he does bring very good points, and presents quite a knowledge in the current philosophical panorama.

Oh, and it's not the only left sector of the church, but it's a good example.

There is a religious left, it just likes to keep to itself and practice religion and politics separately, rather than trying to dress up secular ambition in the Christian cloth.

I dont understand why some christains support the death penalty either.ITs really a human thing.Revenge in my opinion.Especially whe the murderer kiled somebody they knew.Beucase the death penalty goes against the christain faith.Since innocent people die under the death penalty every year.Jesus died under teh death penalty and he broke no laws.Revenge makes people do crazy things but in the end once revenge has been done.Emptyness is left.

And reall nik0 thank you for clearing that up.You said christains were easy t control i was thinking "are you calling me guillible you b-word!".But then when oyu said religious idiots well yeah religious fools are guillible and easy to control.If the controller hides behind a religion to manipulate that fool.*cough*Bush*cough*

and SAS are you saying that I'm not religious and that because I'm a liberal me being baptised and me studying the bible and me doing all this is in vain because i'm not a conservative?Theres a reason why politics should be seperate from religion.So people like hitler won't ocme into power.So events like the crusades won't happen again.So genocide won't happen.But SAS whaterever yeah even though im a christain but because im a liberal that means i dunno i forget what im gonna say because this whole thing irritates me.

I mean I'm tired of having to deal with the fact that I'm christain that im put as a conservative. I'M A FREAKING LIBERAL!!! and don't say that is't very christainy of you.Man i hate it when atheist say that it pisses me off due to the fact that they do it to mock you and blah blah blah whatever my head hurts now.

a liberal post that i haven't posted in yet. tis a rare thing. mainly because i'm very outspoken on this matter.

so where are we...... christainity and liberalism being opposites i see.

i'm an ex-christain but still know the teachings very well.

sasquatch you seem to forget mary magdalane. is she the poor you talk of? the pregnant teen drug user? and tell me what jesus did when he say a prostitute about to being stoned did he rmark to her "and it's their own damn fault anyway" no he didn't.

did jesus talk about sharing the wealth? yes. did he talk about redeeming the sinner? yes. did he tear down the temple full of gold? yes. did he touch the unclean (leper)? yes. did he feed the hungry? yes. was he selfish enough to leave this earth without helping his fellow man with the idea that "it's mine and i wanna keep it". no he taught people with the most selfless act.

look at the taxman story (i can't remember his name) where he takes all the money. the hides in a tree. jesus told him to come down and welcomed him. did he then keep his money? no he shared it.

modern liberalism is the true emergence of the new testament. would jesus have said that welfare was theft? there is no question there really is there. a man who believed in the sharing of welath. a man for equality and an end to greed.

was jesus a liberal? yes