Greatest Civilisation ever?

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

hachifusa there is difference between equal rights and absolute cloned equality.

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You just said you support North Vietnam's communism. That is a product of communism. Enslave man literally and you'll enslave him spiritually.

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Originally Posted by Hachifusa

America, having the most individual freedoms, is therefore the best civilization the world has seen thus far.

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I love it when Americans believe the USA is the most "free" nation in the world. It is not the nation leaning farthest to the right economically, and socially I believe the Americans have less rights and "freedoms" than most of Europe.

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Originally Posted by Hachifusa

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

if america can be regarded as a civilisation then i would say that vietnam of the 60's and 70's was the greatest civilisation ever. stood up against the world's greatest super power and gave them a right good hiding no matter what the cost. would not be bullied by america and instead fought against the US army and won. then went and ended the rule of the kymer rouge. no country has achieved a feat like that.

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Oh, Cloud. Again we have to go through your incorrect apprasial of history.

- You support Vietnam, not on its fundamental basis (hint: it's people were in a communist regime) but because of the fact that it "stood up" to America. This isn't too different from the ad hominem idea (Speaker is immoral, therefore his argument is immoral). However, now it becomes this: America is arbitrarily evil, therefore any other country (even a country with less respect for human rights) is therefore good because it stood up to it. That's like claiming that Nazi Germany was good because it fought the USSR.

- America didn't fight North Vietnam. South Vietnam did. We were their allies, and we were fighting - get this - FOR HUMAN RIGHTS. Yeah, we pulled out in '73, because we realized that that war was beyond lame. The war itself didn't end until '75.

And, by the way, a country has achieved a feat as great as what Vietnam has achieved: Hitler managed to murder 11 million, bring Europe to its knees, and destroy the concept of freedom. You know what "Nazi" stands for? National Socialism.

So, taking your advice, it's a toss up. Either Nazi Germany or Vietnam. They are clearly the pinnacles of human civilization. (btw down with the u.s. lol)

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Didn't Stalin and the Japaneese during WW2 kill more?..

Then during the gunpowder age when the UK went power crazy and said they were superior to all races and started subjecting the whole world..



lets forget about that though.LEts talk about america and vietnam. ..

Bah everyone knows Vietnam was a wrong war. I mean haven't you realised that the whole freaking country just went crazy during that time period. Thats the first time anything like thats ever happened.


to the poster above lol..........I mean seriously I can speak out against busha dn the FBI might come to my house and giv eme a hard time. But I won't just disappear. Heck dude. Did you know n most parts of Europe if your in too much debt you goto a debtors jail... WE don't do that in the US of A

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Originally Posted by jrgen

I love it when Americans believe the USA is the most "free" nation in the world. It is not the nation leaning farthest to the right economically, and socially I believe the Americans have less rights and "freedoms" than most of Europe.

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I love it when Europeans think that Americans are crazy because we have unknown freedoms such as "freedom of press".

I can challenge you the same damn way everytime: give me a freer society than the US and I will move there. (P.S. It doesn't exist.) I'm not some damn mindless nationalist (unlike most Europeans).

Since my obsession with Greek mythology, I would have to say the Greeks. it was a civilization that impacted many aspects of the Modern Western Civilization. From the Greeks many ideas and concepts were formed.

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Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan

Since my obsession with Greek mythology, I would have to say the Greeks. it was a civilization that impacted many aspects of the Modern Western Civilization. From the Greeks many ideas and concepts were formed.

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I'd agree. Greece is one of the greatest civilizations to have graced the planet.

we have freedom of the press here.

and my point about vietnam was purely the overcoming of massive adversity.

in what way is america freer than my country?

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

we have freedom of the press here.

and my point about vietnam was purely the overcoming of massive adversity.

in what way is america freer than my country?

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First off: the BBC. You don't have total freedom of press.

Second: if you see America as evil, than Vietnam is good, but just because it attempted that doesn't make it the best civilization in the world. I love America('s ideals), but not becuase we won the war of independence.

America has more economic freedoms than the rest of the world, which is a socialized slave pen, more or less. On civil liberties, it is more or less the same.

the US does have more civil liberties than the UK, but let's try not to turn this into a fight over which country is "better".

In all fairness, this is bound to come up on any thread that asks people to rate the greatest civilization ever.

this is true.

The US certainly has some issues with civil liberties, with a recent example being the USA Patriot Act, but we also have more protected rights. Many say America is a very litigious country, but that's because we actually have the right to due process and legal recourse. Our press is open to the influences of corporate money, but we do have an explicitly free press that is not government-run. We're effectively protected from government censorship.

why does the bbc limit the freedom of the press? it's not even government ran.

i purely see vietnam as a civilisation that has overcame everything the world has thrown at it. a few chinese invasions, 3 mongol invasions, 2 french invasions, a japanese invasion, an american invasion then destroyed the khymer rouge. they say a travesty in cambodia and without the un asking them to do it, without being forced by internationl law, they won't over there and ended that tyranny and purging. and it is still independant and still has the same courage that has seen it through these times. that is what makes a country great.

america has no more economic freedoms than my country. neither does it have civil liberties, in fact a country which still executes it's citizens i would say it far from civil.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

america has no more economic freedoms than my country. neither does it have civil liberties, in fact a country which still executes it's citizens i would say it far from civil.

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Dude, don't make us get back into the taxation, socialism debate again. You want to be into socialist regimes, fine, but don't try to claim that it's more "free".

you won't find a bigger opponent of capital punishment than me, but it a fact that the United States has more enumerated freedoms than Britain.

The Jews, and\or the Jewish civilization. I mean, look up any good idea in the last 3,000+ years, and it's bound to be a Jew's idea, or at least some goy's idea, that stole it from a Jew. And, really, Seinfeld rocks. :D