Revelation of the Truth

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06-02-2006, 05:31 AM
Viator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut

Well, it's obvious that you don't have any intentions of backing down any time soon, so I don't have anything to add to what Ryu just said. I guess that means we're all living in the dark, but I can live with that.

Why should I backing down if I am right.
Well Sir B just say it,I will listen.

How can you live in the dark Sir B,tell me?

You people dont live in the dark again because I already give the LIGHT.
All you have to do is follow the LIGHT to leave the dark.(Just kidding)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas

Sure, what if Edea is still a Sorceress?

You can find the answer at post no 1,22,26.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas

Anyway, I like the way you proclaim your theory as the "TRUTH" while asking others why they do not believe in the "TRUTH". If this is really the "TRUTH" then that is no denying it and it doesn't matters if people believe it or not instead of going around preaching your "TRUTH" insisting people to believe in it.

And I like your statement.
People believe or dont believe it all comes down to circumtances.
From beginning I already say the "truth" but people tend to believe "theory" than the "truth",that's why I change the word "truth"
into "theory".And my theory is the "TRUTH".
Christmas,sometimes you are really weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas

Like the way I believed PUPU IS THE TRUE HERO OF FF VIII as the "TRUTH" but no one believes it anyway.

The reason people dont believe it because we are only human.
Human can seperate truth and lie.But sometimes they CAN'T.

Quote:

Odine said that JME have a limit is PURE ASSUMPSION (ODINE`S ASSUMPTION)

It`s hard to believe that you can`t notice the flaws.
Like I said you have to figure it out on yourself.
If you cant then try HARDER.

The whole statement here is also PURE ASSUMPTION. (YOUR ASSUMPTION)

If my statement is PURE ASSUMPTION that mean Odine's statement is also PURE ASSUMPTION.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

A machine like JME exists and can be seen on the game along with its advanced version,Viator.However the machine is not there on Ulti´s time.
I will gladly tell you through PM the locations of that machines.
But I also agree that the limit thingy was an excuse

I believe JME never works.
Yeah you are right the limit thingy was an excuse.
People will realized it when they find the truth.

There's only few people in this thread where is the others?
06-02-2006, 10:52 AM
Serapy

Okay, so if your assumptions against the real storylines in the game are true then what did that change? Did your assumptions influence anything in the game? If that's the case then what kind are you referring to, and what will that change? Personally, everything what the game tells us are simple and plausible, let's just stick to that way, I guess.

But for now, I'll try to interact your theory and the real storylines from the game because some of your parts you have proclaimed confused me a bit, so let's recap. (Sorry if I mislead anything)

During the event when Adel is being defected, so that means someone (specifically Rinoa) has to be inherited from Adel's powers in order to die naturally (Adel). Correct? If that's the case, then visa versa. In that time, Rinoa finally has Adel powers but the confusing part is that when Rinoa has Adel's powers and Edea's powers and Ultimecia can posses her any time, well maybe that's not important but then does that mean that she can get as many powers from other sorceresses too? That part does look like that she's becoming more powerful because she has absorbed other sorceresses powers or something, it could be the reason that she became into the same position as Ultimecia with the related powers in the future? Know what I mean?

After Adel, Rinoa went into the place near Esther where she was being exorcized by the machine, I don't really know the purpose of that place (I didn't pay attention to that part in the game), then Squall came to rescue her by slashing the wires that were connected to Rinoa anyway. After that part, Rinoa seemed faintly but does she still have the powers (Adel and Edea's powers) or some powers inside her are gone? That's another confusing part too.

About that JME thing, does it really matter if it has a limit or not? But as someone in this thread has stated that JME has a limitation (stating that Ellone can send you back to the past only if she knows you anyway) but that word "limitation" doesn't seem right to me, it's sort of like a principle to me because if she doesn't know you then she can't send you back, simple as that. In other words, almost everything have principles in order to success, right? But anyway, I don't know any outcomes from JME having a "limit", can you explain?

Machines like JME can last forever, right? Well.. maybe.. machines would neeed amounts of fuels to continue forever.. no limits.. hehe

Maybe characters from the game can assume that may be not true, right? Then assumptions by Odine isn't the only one.. who knows really, but everything from the game seems plausible to me anyway.. not all, just few. If you are right, then it's just a flaw.. but only 1 flaw from what we are talking about. I mean, there should be more flaws than just one in the game.. I don't know really
06-02-2006, 11:01 AM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Why should I backing down if I am right.
Well Sir B just say it,I will listen.

How can you live in the dark Sir B,tell me?

You people dont live in the dark again because I already give the LIGHT.
All you have to do is follow the LIGHT to leave the dark.(Just kidding)

You sound like some religious leader desperately trying to recruit someone to be part of your religion.

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You can find the answer at post no 1,22,26.

No.

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People believe or dont believe it all comes down to circumtances.
From beginning I already say the "truth" but people tend to believe "theory" than the "truth",that's why I change the word "truth"
into "theory".And my theory is the "TRUTH".

Like I said if it is the truth, there is no denying it whether it is a story or a song or a poem or a theory. The point here is that your theory here is not convincing enough for others to believe while you are the only one who think and believe it is convincing. In other words, it is your own personal belief that it is the "truth" but you are unable to convince others it is the truth and now you are going around insisting people to believe it which turned from "convincing" to "pestering".

Quote:

The reason people dont believe it because we are only human.
Human can seperate truth and lie.But sometimes they CAN'T.

That "WE" do include you too I guess. And that statement apply to you too. Personally, I can still seperate truth and lie from this little "TRUTH" of yours. Maybe sometimes we are blinded by the so called "TRUTH" we tell ourselves to believe in and neglected or condemn the other "TRUTH" that others people believed it.

Quote:

If my statement is PURE ASSUMPTION that mean Odine's statement is also PURE ASSUMPTION.

That "ASSUMPTION" is programmed by Square into Dr Odine. If that is an "ASSUMPTION" made by Square, then so be it. In other words, if Square made an "ASSUMPTION" that PuPu is actually the real hero, then he is.
06-03-2006, 12:09 AM
Future Esthar

Please let me show you the machine,Viator.
06-03-2006, 12:27 PM
Viator

Quote:

Okay, so if your assumptions against the real storylines in the game are true then what did that change? Did your assumptions influence anything in the game? If that's the case then what kind are you referring to, and what will that change? Personally, everything what the game tells us are simple and plausible, let's just stick to that way, I guess.

The change thing is Edea still a sorceress at the ending.
My assumptsion of course influence with the game.
My theory is just to close the flaws in the game.
My theory just to make the REAL STORY of the game perfect.

What the game tells us not fully plausible.
Alright I will say once again.

I already prove that Edea still a sorceress

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Doesnt that weird that Edea doesnt know her power has gone?
She said she need to see Odine to remove her power, doesnt that mean she knows that she still have her sorceress power and she knows that she is STILL a sorceress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut

Actually Edea WAS talking of her own powers (the ones she didn't have that is), as evidenced by this line:

Edea: ......... In the meantime, something must be done to suppress my powers... (from Game Script at GameFAQs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Edea said "My power" at that time that means she is STILL a sorceress"

You can find more answer at post no 1,22 and 26.

Because of this plothole most people after beat the game believe that Edea is no longer a sorceress.But I already prove that Edea STILL a sorceress.

In the ending we see that Edea recieved Ultimecia's power that means Edea had TWO sorceresses powers inside her.
Edea gives Ultimecia's power to Rinoa not her sorceress power.
That means Edea is STILL a sorceress because she STILL have her power.
Rinoa became a sorceress because Ultimecia's power NOT Edea's power.
And because as I stated "of all sorceresesses Ultimecia is a special one.she has a motto "MY POWER IS MY LIFE".(Dont ask me why I know about it you just need to believe it)"
Because her power is her life that means she lives inside Rinoa when she went into coma.That's why she can control Rinoa.
Maybe this sounds farfetced but this is however the TRUTH.

The game said Edea is no longer a sorceress BUT I already PROVE that Edea is STILL a sorceress.
You see now,that is the flaw in the game but I already solved it.
Hope you understand now.

Quote:

During the event when Adel is being defected, so that means someone (specifically Rinoa) has to be inherited from Adel's powers in order to die naturally (Adel). Correct? If that's the case, then visa versa. In that time, Rinoa finally has Adel powers but the confusing part is that when Rinoa has Adel's powers and Edea's powers and Ultimecia can posses her any time, well maybe that's not important but then does that mean that she can get as many powers from other sorceresses too? That part does look like that she's becoming more powerful because she has absorbed other sorceresses powers or something, it could be the reason that she became into the same position as Ultimecia with the related powers in the future? Know what I mean?

Rinoa never have Edea's power.I already explained it many times.
You should read my theory at least 3 times,or until you understand.

Quote:

After Adel, Rinoa went into the place near Esther where she was being exorcized by the machine, I don't really know the purpose of that place (I didn't pay attention to that part in the game), then Squall came to rescue her by slashing the wires that were connected to Rinoa anyway. After that part, Rinoa seemed faintly but does she still have the powers (Adel and Edea's powers) or some powers inside her are gone? That's another confusing part too.

At that time (At Sorceress Memorial) Rinoa ONLY have Ultimecia's power NOT Edea's or Adel's

Here is another explaination

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

After Adel defeated she pass on her power to Rinoa.Then Ellone send Rinoa and Ultimecia to the past,Ultimecia start Time Compression and back to the future along with her power and then possess her own body in the future.HEEEYYY it would EXPLAIN another thing when we fight Ultimecia in Final Battle you can see there`s TWO ULTIMECIA.WOW never thought about it (I hope you can understand it in your way).So after Squall and co travel to the future,Rinoa ONLY have Adel`s power.

Quote:

About that JME thing, does it really matter if it has a limit or not? But as someone in this thread has stated that JME has a limitation (stating that Ellone can send you back to the past only if she knows you anyway) but that word "limitation" doesn't seem right to me, it's sort of like a principle to me because if she doesn't know you then she can't send you back, simple as that. In other words, almost everything have principles in order to success, right? But anyway, I don't know any outcomes from JME having a "limit", can you explain?

I only say JME never work.Ultimecia never use JME to possessed Edea or Rinoa.You can read the explaination at post no 1.
If you realized actually that limit thingy was poor excuse.

Quote:

You sound like some religious leader desperately trying to recruit someone to be part of your religion.

Say what you want Christmas.I dont understand you.
Christmas you always have something to against me,why?
If I am like some religious leader that means you are some non religious leader.

Quote:

You can find the answer at post no 1,22,26.

No.

What do you mean no?
There's the answer.

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Like I said if it is the truth, there is no denying it whether it is a story or a song or a poem or a theory. The point here is that your theory here is not convincing enough for others to believe while you are the only one who think and believe it is convincing. In other words, it is your own personal belief that it is the "truth" but you are unable to convince others it is the truth and now you are going around insisting people to believe it which turned from "convincing" to "pestering".

Like I said "Believe in what you believe then,period.
Come on Christmas I am sure you understand about my theory
but you seem always to ignore my theory.
Stop talking about TRUTH Christmas,just tell me why you dont believe my theory.

Quote:

That "WE" do include you too I guess. And that statement apply to you too. Personally, I can still seperate truth and lie from this little "TRUTH" of yours. Maybe sometimes we are blinded by the so called "TRUTH" we tell ourselves to believe in and neglected or condemn the other "TRUTH" that others people believed it.

The truth can be destroyed by lie.
THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS ONE.

Quote:

That "ASSUMPTION" is programmed by Square into Dr Odine. If that is an "ASSUMPTION" made by Square, then so be it. In other words, if Square made an "ASSUMPTION" that PuPu is actually the real hero, then he is.

Say what you want!
Oh yeah actually PuPu is one of the hero.Remember PuPu gives Squall PuPu card.That PuPu card is very usefull.You can read the explaination at thread "Denying fate i dont think so"

Oh and one more thing I want to tell you.
Actually Ultimecia only need to go to the past to achieve TC NOT further into the past like Odine said.Because Ultimecia in the present all the time.(inside Edea and Rinoa).
06-03-2006, 12:39 PM
Qurange

But, you didn't prove a thing. You suggested a possibility that turned out to be useless, because it's simpler and doesn't contradict the game to say that Edea didn't /know/ she'd lost her powers. You're using faulty logic, here:

Quote:

Doesnt that weird that Edea doesnt know her power has gone?
She said she need to see Odine to remove her power, doesnt that mean she knows that she still have her sorceress power and she knows that she is STILL a sorceress.

Yes, it seems weird, but this is erroneous. It doesn't necessarily mean that she still has them; it means she /believes/ she does. She could easily be wrong--especially since the game /says/ she later is. Yes, this could have been done better (like removing her ability to telekinetically punch in battle) but that can be explained away without saying that the game is wrong; if it's a flaw, you're correcting the part that doesn't need it.

Also, why would her presence in Edea and Rinoa mean Ultimecia didn't still have to go back further in time? That doesn't make any sense--we already knew that much, and it doesn't change game canon.
06-03-2006, 12:55 PM
Viator

Quote:

But, you didn't prove a thing. You suggested a possibility that turned out to be useless, because it's simpler and doesn't contradict the game to say that Edea didn't /know/ she'd lost her powers. You're using faulty logic, here:

I already PROVE Edea is STILL a sorceress.
You should read Sir B explaination.

Quote:

Actually Edea WAS talking of her own powers (the ones she didn't have that is), as evidenced by this line:

Edea: ......... In the meantime, something must be done to suppress my powers... (from Game Script at GameFAQs).

I will tell you one more time about Edea's power Qurange.

Quote:

In the ending we see that Edea recieved Ultimecia's power that means Edea had TWO sorceresses powers inside her.
Edea gives Ultimecia's power to Rinoa not her sorceress power.
That means Edea is STILL a sorceress because she STILL have her power.
Rinoa became a sorceress because Ultimecia's power NOT Edea's power.

You see when we fight Edea at Galbadia Garden,Edea had 2 sorceresses powers(Ultimecia's and her power).
Edea give Ultimecia's power to Rinoa NOT her sorceress power.
I hope you really understand now Qurange.

Quote:

Also, why would her presence in Edea and Rinoa mean Ultimecia didn't still have to go back further in time? That doesn't make any sense--we already knew that much, and it doesn't change game canon.

Because she already in the present (Squall's time).By possessing Edea and Rinoa.Remember her power is her life.
That means she only needs Ellone to send her in the past.
I hope you get it now
06-03-2006, 01:37 PM
Christmas

Quote:

Say what you want Christmas.I dont understand you.
Christmas you always have something to against me,why?
If I am like some religious leader that means you are some non religious leader.

I am member 15004 of EOFF forums.

Quote:

Like I said "Believe in what you believe then,period.
Come on Christmas I am sure you understand about my theory
but you seem always to ignore my theory.
Stop talking about TRUTH Christmas,just tell me why you dont believe my theory.

One simple question though:

Quote:

In the ending we see that Edea recieved Ultimecia's power that means Edea had TWO sorceresses powers inside her.
Edea gives Ultimecia's power to Rinoa not her sorceress power.
That means Edea is STILL a sorceress because she STILL have her power.
Rinoa became a sorceress because Ultimecia's power NOT Edea's power.

Let's see, Ultimecia absorbed tons of sorceress' power before this and so she got a whole lot of package of sorceress' power divided in her? Sorceress A powers, Sorceress B powers...etc.

So when she die, which sorceress power did she pass to Edea? Hers or others. If hers, then what about the power of the other sorceress?

BTW, you do know that Ultimecia wanted to absorb all sorceress power from past, future and present into ONE. Which mean when she absorbed the powers of others, they will became one with hers.

So logically speaking, when Ultimecia pass her powers to Edea, her powers is merged with Edea's. The same applies to Rinoa.

Quote:

The truth can be destroyed by lie.
THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS ONE.

It might not be the one you're preaching about though.

Quote:

Say what you want!
Oh yeah actually PuPu is one of the hero.Remember PuPu gives Squall PuPu card.That PuPu card is very usefull.You can read the explaination at thread "Denying fate i dont think so"

SURE.

Quote:

Oh and one more thing I want to tell you.
Actually Ultimecia only need to go to the past to achieve TC NOT further into the past like Odine said.Because Ultimecia in the present all the time.(inside Edea and Rinoa).

So what Odine said are lies or something that is not worth believing it?
06-03-2006, 01:57 PM
Viator

Quote:

Let's see, Ultimecia absorbed tons of sorceress' power before this and so she got a whole lot of package of sorceress' power divided in her? Sorceress A powers, Sorceress B powers...etc.

So when she die, which sorceress power did she pass to Edea? Hers or others. If hers, then what about the power of the other sorceress?

Finally someone ask this question!
When Time decompression happen all of the things trying to get back into what they were supposed to be.And because all those sorceresses powers actually do not belong to Ultimecia that power will back to the sorceresses belongs to that powers.(get back to other sorceresses).
So Edea ONLY recieved Ultimecia's power.

Quote:

BTW, you do know that Ultimecia wanted to absorb all sorceress power from past, future and present into ONE. Which mean when she absorbed the powers of others, they will became one with hers.

Only the sorceress power will became one with her not sorceress.

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So logically speaking, when Ultimecia pass her powers to Edea, her powers is merged with Edea's. The same applies to Rinoa.

You guessed it.

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It might not be the one you're preaching about though.

Whatever.

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So what Odine said are lies or something that is not worth believing it?

If we can say Odine never lie he just doesnt know the truth.
That's why he only say what he knows
06-03-2006, 02:21 PM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Finally someone ask this question!
When Time decompression happen all of the things trying to get back into what they were supposed to be.And because other sorceress power actually do not belong to Ultimecia that power will back to the sorceress belongs to that power.(get back to other sorceress).
So Edea ONLY recieved Ultimecia's power.

You do know that those sorceress that got absorbed have all been defeated by Squall and they might already be dead when they got absorbed to Ultimecia.

Also, what's the point of absorbing every sorceress powers when they are all split into different packages and not merged as one. If they are merged as one when Ultimecia absorbed them, then why can't Edea and Ultimecia's power merge as one when Edea got her powers.

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Only the sorceress power will became one with her not sorceress.

I had no idea what you are talking about.

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You guessed it.

I talking about the power come in one full package and not half the package. So Edea stored her powers in one compartment and Ultimecia in other? So when she fight, which powers do she use?

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If we can say Odine never lie he just doesnt know the truth.
That's why he only say what he knows

What he knows is what Square said.
06-05-2006, 05:00 AM
Viator

Quote:

You do know that those sorceress that got absorbed have all been defeated by Squall and they might already be dead when they got absorbed to Ultimecia.

That those sorceresses Squall and Co defeated actually the Origin Sorceress.Maybe they dead at that time (when Squall kill them) but they still alive in their time.So when Time Decompression all those powers back to the Origin Sorceresses.Ultimecia ONLY absorbed sorceress' power from Origin Sorceress NOT sorceress.If Ultimecia absorbed all sorceresses powers that means Rinoa cannot be a Sorceress when TC happen (When TC happen all sorceress power;Origin sorceresses' powers get absorbed by Ultimecia)But Rinoa STILL a sorceress at that time.That means Ultimecia only absorbed the powers from Origin Sorceresses.
So when Ultimecia defeated, all those powers get away from Ultimecia and back to the owner.(Origin Sorceresses)
Ultimecia only absorbed Sorceress' power not Sorceress.

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Also, what's the point of absorbing every sorceress powers when they are all split into different packages and not merged as one. If they are merged as one when Ultimecia absorbed them, then why can't Edea and Ultimecia's power merge as one when Edea got her powers.

They (sorceresses' power) will merged as one with Ultimecia when she absorbed all those powers.
Ultimecia still the most powerful sorceress even she doesnt have all those powers.
Ultimecia can ONLY merged as one with that sorceresses powers when TC happen.
TC is ended when Edea recieved Ultimecia's power.
So their powers cannot be merged as one

Quote:

BTW, you do know that Ultimecia wanted to absorb all sorceress power from past, future and present into ONE. Which mean when she absorbed the powers of others, "they" will became one with hers.

"They" is sorceresses' powers not sorceress.

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So logically speaking, when Ultimecia pass her powers to Edea, her powers is merged with Edea's. The same applies to Rinoa.

Sorry I misunderstand last time.
Their powers do not merged.
When Ultimecia possessed Edea she ONLY use her power not Edea's power.
When Ultimecia inside Edea their spirit fight each other.
And of course Ultimecia's spirit wins over Edea's spirit.
That's why she can possessed her.

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I talking about the power come in one full package and not half the package. So Edea stored her powers in one compartment and Ultimecia in other? So when she fight, which powers do she use?

Ultimecia only use her power not Edea's power.

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What he knows is what Square said.

What he knows at that time is not entirely the TRUTH.

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Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut

The better explanation was fully developed by "TheOnionKnight" and can be found in the FAQ I co-wrote (which you claimed to have read).

The theory by TheOnionKnight is plausible.
But there's something wrong in that theory.
He said Ultimecia possessed Edea and Rinoa by JME.
But I already explain and prove Ultimecia NOT possessed Edea and Rinoa with JME.
TheOnionKnight's theory is very solid BUT his theory is not entirely the truth.
06-05-2006, 01:37 PM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

That those sorceresses Squall and Co defeated actually the Origin Sorceress.Maybe they dead at that time (when Squall kill them) but they still alive in their time.So when Time Decompression all those powers back to the Origin Sorceresses.Ultimecia ONLY absorbed sorceress' power from Origin Sorceress NOT sorceress.

You are saying like Squall only slain their spirit while their body is still intact in their own world. So if Squall and the rest got roasted by Ultimecia and a few moments later Laguna came along and kill Ultimecia, Squall and the others were be revived???

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If Ultimecia absorbed all sorceresses powers that means Rinoa cannot be a Sorceress when TC happen (When TC happen all sorceress power;Origin sorceresses' powers get absorbed by Ultimecia)But Rinoa STILL a sorceress at that time.That means Ultimecia only absorbed the powers from Origin Sorceresses.

Time is set to stone in FF VIII and Ultimecia didn't really manage to absorb every single sorceress throughout time.

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So when Ultimecia defeated, all those powers get away from Ultimecia and back to the owner.(Origin Sorceresses)
Ultimecia only absorbed Sorceress' power not Sorceress.

I don't get your Origin Sorceress stuff.

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They (sorceresses' power) will merged as one with Ultimecia when she absorbed all those powers.
Ultimecia still the most powerful sorceress even she doesnt have all those powers.
Ultimecia can ONLY merged as one with that sorceresses powers when TC happen.
TC is ended when Edea recieved Ultimecia's power.
So their powers cannot be merged as one

After TC sorceress power cannot merge as one and before TC it can?
You said so?

BTW, when Rinoa receive Adel's power, is that a special code or trick to access Adel's power since Rinoa received Adel's power before TC.

Finally, here is a famous line from Seifer

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Seifer: Can't go back now! I can't go anywhere! The sorceresses as one!

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"They" is sorceresses' powers not sorceress.

Why not cast scan on her during her final form?

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Sorry I misunderstand last time.
Their powers do not merged.
When Ultimecia possessed Edea she ONLY use her power not Edea's power.
When Ultimecia inside Edea their spirit fight each other.
And of course Ultimecia's spirit wins over Edea's spirit.
That's why she can possessed her.

Why can't she use Edea's power since she had complete control over the body?

Also, before Ultimecia possess Edea, what power is Edea entitled? If only to her own power, then where is Ultimecia's power?

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What he knows at that time is not entirely the TRUTH.

What you think and know at this current time is too not entirely the truth and Dr Odine's words hold more weights than yours since it is from Square.

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The theory by TheOnionKnight is plausible.
But there's something wrong in that theory.
He said Ultimecia possessed Edea and Rinoa by JME.
But I already explain and prove Ultimecia NOT possessed Edea and Rinoa with JME.
TheOnionKnight's theory is very solid BUT his theory is not entirely the truth.

So is yours.
06-05-2006, 11:41 PM
Serapy

So bascially that when any sorceress are about to die, therefore someone else will get Ultimecia powers from that sorceress? Rinoa for example.

Ok, Edea is still a sorceress. Tell me why didn't Ultimecia posses her to seal Adel and release her, etc, instead of possessing Rinoa to do so? It doesn't make sense because Edea is capable of doing the same job as Rinoa, of course. Both of them are bright women with full powers, why only Rinoa that was being possessed by Ultimecia again?

Anyway, maybe because well, at least that's what I think:

Edea doesn't know that she's a still sorceress, so therefore Ultimecia can't posses her UNLESS Edea realised that she's still a sorceress because Ultimecia always depend (or rely) on sorceresses' feelings, satisfactions, etc. If you don't understand what I mean, try to understand this:

Edea (thinking she's not a sorceress) gives less chances of being posessed by Ultimecia to fulfil the future. Ultimecia can't control sorceresses if they don't think that way (relating sorceresses stuff). All equal not matching, that's why Edea never has been possessed by Ultimecia after that incident at the garden with Squall and Op.

Rinoa knew that she's becoming a sorceress and she acknowledged other sorceresses and Ultimecia quickly which gives more chances of being possessed by Ultimecia to fulfil the future because Ultimecia depend (or rely) on sorceresses' feelings, satisfactions, etc. There you go, that's why Ultimecia started possessing her. In meanwhile, she was thinking too much about this sorceress stuff, which gives more powers for Ultimecia to posses Rinoa to do so, then Ultimecia depend on Rinoa a lot since.. that's why Rinoa was being possessed to seal Adel. I guess. Ultimecia possessing + Any sorceress with related sorceresses feelings = Highly chances, so both of them will merge to fulfil. Rinoa and Ultimecia for example.

But then, maybe I'm wrong because Edea has nothing to do with Ultimecia in the future and so on, execpt Rinoa that's why Ultimecia doesn't need her right now. Which explains that Rinoa's kind of related to Ultimecia. I started believing R=U theory, honestly I just do and yes, I have just read SquallOfSeed's theory regarding R=U.

I think Ultimecia wanted to compress time because she didn't exactly get what she wants, that's why she started compressing everything to start all over again, so on and on. I don't know what Ultimecia really wants, well actually she did get what she want (by possessing someone to seal Adel) but maybe that wasn't enough, I mean there should be more than that explanation.
06-06-2006, 11:41 AM
Viator

Quote:

You are saying like Squall only slain their spirit while their body is still intact in their own world. So if Squall and the rest got roasted by Ultimecia and a few moments later Laguna came along and kill Ultimecia, Squall and the others were be revived???

You misunderstood my statement Christmas.
All that Origin sorceresses get absorbed in TC.And Squall and Co kill them in TC.Actually they doenst belong in TC,they belong to their own time.
They still alive in their own time.Their powers get back to them in their own time.(In their on time they still alive)
Like I said when Time decompression happen all of the things trying to get back into what they were supposed to be.And because all those sorceresses powers actually do not belong to Ultimecia that power will back to the sorceresses belongs to that powers.(get back to the other sorceresses).

Quote:

Time is set to stone in FF VIII and Ultimecia didn't really manage to absorb every single sorceress throughout time.

She only absorbed The Origin Sorceress' power NOT sorceress' power.
She can absorbed because she already start TC.
In TC she can absorbed The Origin Sorceresses' power.

Quote:

I don't get your Origin Sorceress stuff.

There's different between Origin Sorceress and Sorceress.
Origin Sorceress is the first kind of Sorceress Hyne created.
Sorceress is Human (female) have the power of Origin Sorceress power.
(i.e Ultimecia,Edea,Adel,Rinoa,etc.)

Quote:

After TC sorceress power cannot merge as one and before TC it can?
You said so?

I hope you dont misunderstand with this "merged as one" stuff.
If you misunderstand its hard to tell the explanation to you.
I hope you read my post more than one.

Quote:

BTW, when Rinoa receive Adel's power, is that a special code or trick to access Adel's power since Rinoa received Adel's power before TC.

Rinoa recieved Adel's power because Adel is defeated.
Same when Edea recieved Ultimecia's power.
TC had nothing to do with this "simple" thing.

Quote:

Finally, here is a famous line from Seifer

Seifer: Can't go back now! I can't go anywhere! The sorceresses as one!

The meaning of that is:
It's like Odine said"
"Ultimecia(Rinoa) wants to possess Adel."
Adel junctioned with Ultimecia(Rinoa).
That means Adel have Ultimecia's power when junctioned with Rinoa.
Remember her power is her life.
At that time Ultimecia's spirit VS Adel's spirit.
When we fight Adel we dont know who is the one control Adel.
(Adel or Ultimecia).This is still mystery I guess, because Adel doesnt speak anything at that time.So you have to figured out on yourself the answer.

Quote:

Why can't she use Edea's power since she had complete control over the body?

She ONLY control her body NOT her power.
Body and power are something different

Quote:

Also, before Ultimecia possess Edea, what power is Edea entitled? If only to her own power, then where is Ultimecia's power?

Edea only had her own power before Ultimecia possessed her.
Ultimecia's power inside Ultimecia.
Hope you understand.

Quote:

What you think and know at this current time is too not entirely the truth and Dr Odine's words hold more weights than yours since it is from Square.

Whatever.

Quote:

So bascially that when any sorceress are about to die, therefore someone else will get Ultimecia powers from that sorceress? Rinoa for example.

I dont understand what are you talking about.

Quote:

Ok, Edea is still a sorceress. Tell me why didn't Ultimecia posses her to seal Adel and release her, etc, instead of possessing Rinoa to do so? It doesn't make sense because Edea is capable of doing the same job as Rinoa, of course. Both of them are bright women with full powers, why only Rinoa that was being possessed by Ultimecia again?

In Galbadia Garden Edea defeated by Squall.And Ultimecia gives her power to Rinoa.As to why she chose Rinoa not Quistis or Selphie,dont ask me or anybody else you should ask Ultimecia for the answer.

Quote:

Edea doesn't know that she's a still sorceress, so therefore Ultimecia can't posses her UNLESS Edea realised that she's still a sorceress because Ultimecia always depend (or rely) on sorceresses' feelings, satisfactions, etc. If you don't understand what I mean, try to understand this:

Edea knows that she is STILL a sorceress,like I said its only Square's intention to make us believe she is not a sorceress.
Ultimecia doesnt possess Edea again because Ultimecia gives her power to Rinoa.

Quote:

Edea (thinking she's not a sorceress) gives less chances of being posessed by Ultimecia to fulfil the future. Ultimecia can't control sorceresses if they don't think that way (relating sorceresses stuff). All equal not matching, that's why Edea never has been possessed by Ultimecia after that incident at the garden with Squall and Op.

Rinoa knew that she's becoming a sorceress and she acknowledged other sorceresses and Ultimecia quickly which gives more chances of being possessed by Ultimecia to fulfil the future because Ultimecia depend (or rely) on sorceresses' feelings, satisfactions, etc. There you go, that's why Ultimecia started possessing her. In meanwhile, she was thinking too much about this sorceress stuff, which gives more powers for Ultimecia to posses Rinoa to do so, then Ultimecia depend on Rinoa a lot since.. that's why Rinoa was being possessed to seal Adel. I guess. Ultimecia possessing + Any sorceress with related sorceresses feelings = Highly chances, so both of them will merge to fulfil. Rinoa and Ultimecia for example.

You are wrong,just read my explainations above.

Quote:

But then, maybe I'm wrong because Edea has nothing to do with Ultimecia in the future and so on, execpt Rinoa that's why Ultimecia doesn't need her right now. Which explains that Rinoa's kind of related to Ultimecia. I started believing R=U theory, honestly I just do and yes, I have just read SquallOfSeed's theory regarding R=U.

I suggest you not to read R=U theory too much because it will confused you.
Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia.It's simply because Rinoa is just Rinoa.
I suggest you to read my theory again.

Quote:

I think Ultimecia wanted to compress time because she didn't exactly get what she wants, that's why she started compressing everything to start all over again, so on and on. I don't know what Ultimecia really wants, well actually she did get what she want (by possessing someone to seal Adel) but maybe that wasn't enough, I mean there should be more than that explanation.

Here is my answer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

I believe that Ultimecia knew about her fate,but that is NOT the REAL reason why she want to compress time.She must have another reason(fot example to become ruler of everything).BUT I believe beside these 2 reasons there must be REAL REASON why she wants to compress time.I think we will never know what the reason IS.
06-06-2006, 06:17 PM
Serapy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serapy

So bascially that when any sorceress are about to die, therefore someone else will get Ultimecia powers from that sorceress? Rinoa for example.

^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viafor

I dont understand what are you talking about.

You've said that Rinoa didn't recieve Edea powers when Edea was beaten at the Galbadia Garden, and you said Rinoa only recieved Ultimecia powers when Edea was being defeated (Ultimecia was possessing Rinoa)? Then why did Square state 'Sorceresses', instead of 'Ultimecia' to give the powers to someone else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serapy

Ok, so Edea is still a sorceress. Tell me why didn't Ultimecia posses her to seal Adel and release her, etc, instead of possessing Rinoa to do so? It doesn't make sense because Edea is capable of doing the same job as Rinoa, of course. Both of them are bright women with full powers, why only Rinoa that was being possessed by Ultimecia again?

^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viafor

In Galbadia Garden Edea defeated by Squall.And Ultimecia gives her power to Rinoa.As to why she chose Rinoa not Quistis or Selphie,dont ask me or anybody else you should ask Ultimecia for the answer.

I'm asking you that question because its related to your theory. If you can answer my question, then you will prove your theory that everything in your theory will become more understandable and true.

Well, to answer your reply that I really think that Ultimecia chose Rinoa because Rinoa is very related to Ultimecia, otherwise answer my question to prove it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serapy

Edea doesn't know that she's a still sorceress, so therefore Ultimecia can't posses her UNLESS Edea realised that she's still a sorceress because Ultimecia always depend (or rely) on sorceresses' feelings, satisfactions, etc. If you don't understand what I mean, try to understand this:

^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viafor

Edea knows that she is STILL a sorceress,like I said its only Square's intention to make us believe she is not a sorceress.
Ultimecia doesnt possess Edea again because Ultimecia gives her power to Rinoa.

If you said Ultimecia can't posses Edea again then that MEANS Edea isn't a sorceress anymore

Ultimecia can possess any sorceresses again to rely on because they have potentials and they still have powers. Finally, Ultimecia can possess Edea again, even Rinoa during the Time Compression, etc.

After Adel is defeated, it would be pointless for Ultimecia to possess again because there's no job to do.

BUT, if Square lied. Then how come other FF games (NOT FF8) seem very very very very very clear to understand the whole stories, no matter if there were plots or flaws because the stories already covered them, so assuming they are telling the truths. Now you said Square has made a lie in FF8 only? That's very very very very very very weird!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serapy

Edea (thinking she's not a sorceress) gives less chances of being posessed by Ultimecia to fulfil the future. Ultimecia can't control sorceresses if they don't think that way (relating sorceresses stuff). All equal not matching, that's why Edea never has been possessed by Ultimecia after that incident at the garden with Squall and Op.

Rinoa knew that she's becoming a sorceress and she acknowledged other sorceresses and Ultimecia quickly which gives more chances of being possessed by Ultimecia to fulfil the future because Ultimecia depend (or rely) on sorceresses' feelings, satisfactions, etc. There you go, that's why Ultimecia started possessing her. In meanwhile, she was thinking too much about this sorceress stuff, which gives more powers for Ultimecia to posses Rinoa to do so, then Ultimecia depend on Rinoa a lot since.. that's why Rinoa was being possessed to seal Adel. I guess. Ultimecia possessing + Any sorceress with related sorceresses feelings = Highly chances, so both of them will merge to fulfil. Rinoa and Ultimecia for example.

^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viafor

You are wrong,just read my explainations above.

That's just a theory, doesn't matter anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serapy

But then, maybe I'm wrong because Edea has nothing to do with Ultimecia in the future and so on, execpt Rinoa that's why Ultimecia doesn't need her right now. Which explains that Rinoa's kind of related to Ultimecia. I started believing R=U theory, honestly I just do and yes, I have just read SquallOfSeed's theory regarding R=U.

^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viafor

I suggest you not to read R=U theory too much because it will confused you.
Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia.It's simply because Rinoa is just Rinoa.
I suggest you to read my theory again.

Sorry, I already have read the R=U theory, and its way more plausible than your theory. I don't think I'm confused, but your theory is way confusing anyway. I'm surpised that you didn't answer my question regarding why Ultimecia chose Rinoa, sure Rinoa is just Rinoa. You should know that she has white and black feathers powers, white = good Rinoa and black = Ultimecia, which is the same concept of R being U, but really Rinoa is very very very related to Ultimecia, simple as that.

At least the R=U theory didn't mention that Square is lying, only your theory that thinks Square is lying (by persuading us to think that Edea isn't a sorceresses, etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serapy

I think Ultimecia wanted to compress time because she didn't exactly get what she wants, that's why she started compressing everything to start all over again, so on and on. I don't know what Ultimecia really wants, well actually she did get what she want (by possessing someone to seal Adel) but maybe that wasn't enough, I mean there should be more than that explanation.

^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Here is my answer:

I believe that Ultimecia knew about her fate,but that is NOT the REAL reason why she want to compress time.She must have another reason(fot example to become ruler of everything).BUT I believe beside these 2 reasons there must be REAL REASON why she wants to compress time.I think we will never know what the reason IS.

I think they are few reasons why she wants to compress times:

She was trying to collect more sorceresses powers, and start controlling them to do what she want. Unfortunately, Adel, Edea and Ultimecia are all defeated and Ultimecia didn't have enough sorceresses powers to increase the powers to become more powerful to rule the whole world, that's why she wanted to compress times.

Ultimecia needed Ellone to change the past, that's why Ultimecia tried to look for her by possessing sorceresses and control them to find Ellone or something. But Ultimecia didn't find her, that's why she wanted to compress times.

The real story is that SeeD members were trained to beat Ultimecia, and when Squall and his members went to fight Ultimecia. You see what Ultimecia said? She was pretty angry, she didn't expect that to happen. Having SeeDs trained to beat Ultimecia is a big problem for Ultimecia. That's why she wanted to compress times after the battle..Obviously, it's like a cycle..

Or.. Ultimecia's real story didn't happen, thats why she wanted to compress to match her real story. There should be more reasons as well.

Why should we care? Because Ultimecia is 100% gone after the end battle, everything goes back to normal.

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