"Why is it that every war America fights, they lose"?

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12-20-2006, 05:09 AM
Renmiri

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik0tine

Edit: After reading through this thread I'd like to point out that America didn't 'save' anybody in WWII. We entered that war for personal gain. If you think that any country, America or not, would fight a war to 'do the right thing' you're an incredibly stupid person. (And you're the reason we're in Iraq, too, asshole.)

So basically anybody that thinks Europeans should show us gratitude is an idiot and needs to shut up.

As if!!! Kid I was anti war before you were even born.

No one dies for profit. You can't take any money with you. Those 18-25 year old kids who died at Normandy and the kids who are now dying in Iraq are not doing it to get rich. They re doing it for their troopmates, their family, their beliefs. none of them "profitable". Soldiers don't get mansions.

You are confusing the government with the soldiers. Don't.

PEOPLE die in wars. Governments wage them. I'm grateful to the PEOPLE who gave their lives so we wouldn't be Nazi right now on the IV Reich. The governments ? Those SOBs as soon would sell us all as "red meat" to a burger factory if there was profit to be had...
12-21-2006, 01:46 AM
LazarCotoron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renmiri

As if!!! Kid I was anti war before you were even born.

No one dies for profit. You can't take any money with you. Those 18-25 year old kids who died at Normandy and the kids who are now dying in Iraq are not doing it to get rich. They re doing it for their troopmates, their family, their beliefs. none of them "profitable". Soldiers don't get mansions.

You are confusing the government with the soldiers. Don't.

PEOPLE die in wars. Governments wage them. I'm grateful to the PEOPLE who gave their lives so we wouldn't be Nazi right now on the IV Reich. The governments ? Those SOBs as soon would sell us all as "red meat" to a burger factory if there was profit to be had...

Renmiri-I may be pro-war and disagree with a lot of the liberal junk that gets tossed around out here, but I COMPLETELY agree with what you said here, and I think people need to really think before we commit our troops-our friends and family to causes. I believe there are plenty of things that are worth fighting for, and I believe you can genuinely find a true and just cause as well as a base humanistic cause for any war.

Oh, and I saw someone in here mention movies about WWII. Y'know, at the risk of sounding like an asshole, if you let American directors do all the movies, its not surprising that you get pro-American points of view. Is it right? Not only no, but hell no. Would you expect a French director to write a film about the great accomplishments of the British?

Hollywood is its own microcosm, believe me. I used to live there and have a considerable amount of inside info on the entire process. The short version is that people like to feel good about themselves, so investors fund the movie pitches in Hollywood that make them seem like better people than they are.
12-21-2006, 01:51 AM
Kamiko

America is not as bad as the French. :D
12-21-2006, 02:04 AM
oddler

Let's stop caring so much about war victories between each other and start figuring out where we're all going to live when we use up all our water and other necessary resources. Hmm? :p

Contribution > Conflict
12-21-2006, 02:05 AM
LoveArya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamiko

America is not as bad as the French. :D

Hey, American here!
12-21-2006, 02:21 AM
Tavrobel

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveArya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamiko

America is not as bad as the French. :D

Hey, American here!

I do truly suggest you go back and read that statement again. I don;t any offense to Americans anywhere.

Unless being compared to the French in the first place gets you off.

Ohh, btw, AMERICAN HERE TOO BUT I DON'T CARE BECAUSE WE SUCK

Now, you should be offended.
12-21-2006, 02:55 AM
Dragon Mage

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I think the more accurate statement would be that the only reason the British were on the winning side was because the Americans were there.

The brits were retreating, france was lost, millions had been slaughtered, none of their tactics worked.

U.S. comes in, lends them money, and equipment. Millions of American soldiers were slaughtered on foreign lands and guess what: The tide of battle begins to turn! *gasp* could it possibly be because the Americans came?
Well no :skull::skull::skull::skull:, sherlock.

We don't lose wars, we just never finish them. I'll tell you why.

Becuase the do-gooding frappin' 'love everyone' democrats and enviromentalists and pro-life/peace supporters have absolute control over the frappin media. The only thing that's pumped into our ears every day is how many soldiers are dying, how bad war is, how much the world hates us. The same old :skull::skull::skull::skull: every day. People get scared, they change their votes based on biased information that doesn't mean :skull::skull::skull::skull:!!! We pull out of every war recently because of the political turmoil. The goddam 'love everyone' democrates keep pumping out this bull crap and the worst part is that everyone believes them! 'Stay the course' my ass. America hasn't been able to see one overseas project through since the term 'politically correct' was made. Turn the other cheek--and we get slapped. Fight back--our own people screw us over. We're never really 'United'. The politcal wars prevent us from doing anything--we've tied our own hands!!! It takes a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center to actually get the whole nation united. Only after we get attacked by terrorist we weren't allowed to go after because that would be a bad thing and it would be evil and discriminatory.
We would've won Vietnam, we would've won it hands down. But the frapping democrats and hippies start screaming about 'you can't do that, that's taking away the right to Life, that's discrimination'. After that, we pulled out so fast your head would spin. We never finished the war. We could go right back in and find it practically unchanged since we left. Our soldiers, even wounded soldiers, were spit upon and mobbed when they got back, because they had they're eyes open and saw that if they didn't defend this land then we would fall, and they defended it.

We're so steeped in being fair and politcally correct, and it's so idiotic--they're lying to themselves, listining to whatever the democrats say. I wonder if the majority to the population have thier heads up thier asses for the warmth or the view.

The great irony is that the 'great and powerful America', always so prosperous and strong, is constantly called upon by the frappin U.N. to be the world police. And we can't do it. Oh, we try, but then the activists come out of the woodwork shrieking about the constitution. The Genocide in Darfur? You know why we're not involved? 1)we're in a war already 2)people will be so shocked over the loss of troops they will immiediatly hit the brakes.
It's like they never knew that in war people die. And that is just plain stupidity. They see a number of deaths and stop it before it climbs higher. Never had this problem in WWII. But the necrophobes and anti-Americans have complete control over what we do. (I've never heard of the 'majority' of people on the news. Know why? It's discrimination.) And in this state, we could do one thing then do the exact opposite. It's going to take a big reality check to make these idiots see the truth--that everything is not perfect, that we can fix everything, that people never die in war because we're so powerful, and that we can't be perfect ourselves. And that reality check will be coming soon. We're gearing up for a war with China right now. Nucs will be flying, sooner than anyone would like.

George Washington told us never to split--I wish someone had listened to him. Perhaps then we wouldn't be so screwed up.

the 2nd reason is that no one actually realizes that WWII was the last war that had an actual front line. After that, it's all gruellia warfare and everything we know about warfare is aboslute crap. Sun Tzu (which I have read many times) don't mean a thing anymore. We've been fighting wars we don't have a strategy to combat them with. We're actually writing history right now--our own Sun Tzu. If we find a way to fight this gurella warfare right now, that's how the world will be fighting for the rest of time. We're going into unknown territory.

Quote:

No one dies for profit. You can't take any money with you. Those 18-25 year old kids who died at Normandy and the kids who are now dying in Iraq are not doing it to get rich. They re doing it for their troopmates, their family, their beliefs. none of them "profitable". Soldiers don't get mansions.

You are confusing the government with the soldiers. Don't.

You should be shot. The Iraqis are killing us because we don't submit to their effin Allah! They kill Americans becuase we're not like them! They fight us because they hate us and for no other reason. We're so alien to them the can't understand and for that they thinks we should be destroyed! Camaraderie--we have that. They don't.

We fight for our freedom--They fight us because we have it.

Quote:

Ohh, btw, AMERICAN HERE TOO BUT I DON'T CARE BECAUSE WE SUCK

Now, you should be offended.

How about you never say that again and I'll let you go unscathed? Deal? Or no? Go ahead; make my day.
12-21-2006, 03:30 AM
LazarCotoron

Ok, seriously dude. I'm pro-war, I'm pro-America, but ya just blew it hardcore, Dragon Mage. Seriously. And drop the WW2 thing. If the Brits didn't hold out, we wouldn't have had any kind of staging area and Europe would be Greater Germany.

And yeah-you're dead right about our pussy footing peace loving liberal bs media. But y'know? That hardly gives you the right to say that we SHOULDN'T be concerned about our troops! I've got family, friends, family of friends in there-and I happen to give a damn what happens to them! I expect that they will do what they think is right and what they need to to stay alive. I respect their choices for serving in the military and putting their lives on the line-because unlike our loser hippy media, I get it.

But y'know? We aren't right to go fight everyone's problems. What pisses me off is that we aren't right whether we go or not. The world holds a view that we have it all over here-and hell, who am I to say we don't? I think any prat at a computer has it pretty good next to a lot of people. What gets ME is that if we step in, we're automatically imperialists pursuing an agenda of more land and conquest, and if we don't step in, we're allowing unspeakable attrocities by our inaction.

All because that is the case doesn't mean we should take it out on the people we still have as friends. I'm proud to have Britain stand with us, and question what we do. We stand to learn a lot from the people who never had the sun set on their empire-or was it conveniant to forget that?

You're the kind of American that gives the rest of us a bad name-you're an officious jerk and you don't even try to understand that the world across the ocean IS totally different.

On the last note, you're right about the Middle Eastern sitch-but not 100% right. Like anywhere else in the world, there are people there that think that hey, we're doing good things! And there's people there that irrationally want us all to die. It's split. And to be entirely honest, I don't believe the Geneva Convention was signed by terrorists and consequently, I don't think we should be extending those pleasantries to them. But if we don't, it makes us seem like total monsters, now don't it?

So get it through your thick skull. We need to be making friends, not getting everyone on the "Yanks are evil" bandwagon.
12-21-2006, 03:31 AM
nik0tine

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Wrong. Much of the first half of the 20th century was about people trying to do what they thought was right, not what necessarily profited them.

I don't for one moment believe this.

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As if!!! Kid I was anti war before you were even born.

Well good. I'm glad you see it from my point of view.

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You are confusing the government with the soldiers. Don't.

No I'm not. You're just not understanding what I have to say. Soldiers don't get rich, but soldiers don't start wars either. Politicians, however, do. (And money isn't necessarily a factor. In fact, I think power has quite a bit more to do with it than money.)

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PEOPLE die in wars. Governments wage them. I'm grateful to the PEOPLE who gave their lives so we wouldn't be Nazi right now on the IV Reich.

Exactly my point, dude. America as a country doesn't deserve gratitude for it's involvement in WW2. The soldiers? Perhaps. But the country? Hell no.

If there was no profit in WW2 do you people sincerely believed that America would have entered? (And again, I'm not talking money here)
12-21-2006, 04:02 AM
Madame Adequate

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik0tine

Quote:

Wrong. Much of the first half of the 20th century was about people trying to do what they thought was right, not what necessarily profited them.

I don't for one moment believe this.

K, don't. But it's true nonetheless. Huge, huge numbers of politicians, policy-makers, and thinkers in the late 19th and early 20th century were concerned with what was best and right, not with personal profit. There were tons of people who were greedy and self-interested, but not nearly as large a proportion as today. Heck, look at the history of architecture and urban planning in Europe in the '20s for a pretty detailed, conclusive example of this.

Note that what people thought was right doesn't necessarily translate into them doing good, productive, or right things, but their motives were benign.
12-21-2006, 04:15 AM
nik0tine

Quote:

K, don't. But it's true nonetheless. Huge, huge numbers of politicians, policy-makers, and thinkers in the late 19th and early 20th century were concerned with what was best and right, not with personal profit.

The thing is, I'm not talking about personal profit. I'm talking about political profit. Right now alot of Republicans think the war in Iraq is the 'right thing'. Not because we're freeing an oppressed people, but because it's supposed to keep us the sole world super power. source.

Take Americas involvement in the phillipines, for example. Was the justification for that war not very similar to the justifications used for Iraq? I'm no historian, but when I took a simple American history course last year the parallels were astounding. That war was for the 'right' reasons. Y'know. Spreading Democracy and all. But at it's core it was blatant imperialism, was it not?

My point is that just becuase politicians say they are doing the 'right' thing doesn't mean they are. It's not logical to believe that a politician would throw away the lives of his own people and spend billions upon billions of dollars (or whatever the equivalent of that time period was) for purely benevolent means.

If there is potential benevolence in a war the politicians are going to make that absolutely clear. But it's not why people go to war. That's just naive.
12-21-2006, 06:25 AM
Renmiri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

You should be shot....
How about you never say that again and I'll let you go unscathed? Deal? Or no? Go ahead; make my day.

ROFL... Pretty brave talk from a 15 year old. :rolleyes2

Grow up, will ya ? Not everything is resolved with violence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik0tine

No I'm not. You're just not understanding ... my point, dude. America as a country doesn't deserve gratitude for it's involvement in WW2. The soldiers? Perhaps. But the country? Hell no.

Well, we agree 100% here. When I say America I usually mean the people who live in it. The politicians ? No siree, those are not "America" for me. Politicians are basically the same on all countries in the world: blood sucking leeches in the game for power and profit.
12-21-2006, 06:33 AM
DarkLadyNyara

*sigh* Alright. Deconstruction time.

Quote:

We don't lose wars, we just never finish them. I'll tell you why.

Becuase the do-gooding frappin' 'love everyone' democrats and enviromentalists and pro-life/peace supporters have absolute control over the frappin media.

You're kidding, right? I must be reading the wrong media.

Quote:

The only thing that's pumped into our ears every day is how many soldiers are dying, how bad war is, how much the world hates us. The same old :skull::skull::skull::skull: every day. People get scared, they change their votes based on biased information that doesn't mean :skull::skull::skull::skull:!!! We pull out of every war recently because of the political turmoil.

Um... no. If only one point of veiw is being "pumped into your ears", that is purely your own fault. As far as people changing their votes- Bush got re-elected. Need I say more?

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The goddam 'love everyone' democrates keep pumping out this bull crap and the worst part is that everyone believes them! 'Stay the course' my ass. America hasn't been able to see one overseas project through since the term 'politically correct' was made. Turn the other cheek--and we get slapped. Fight back--our own people screw us over. We're never really 'United'. The politcal wars prevent us from doing anything--we've tied our own hands!!!

Oh, come on. Can you at least try being origional? The Democrats have not had signifigant power on the national level for a decade.

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It takes a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center to actually get the whole nation united.

Yeah, and it took the right wing to undo that unity. Now, let's see, who imediatly said 9-11 was the will of god, and the fault of America for being sinful? Oh yeah- conservatives. (All right, fine. Right wing reactionaries. But still, the point stands.)

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Only after we get attacked by terrorist we weren't allowed to go after because that would be a bad thing and it would be evil and discriminatory.

Bull:skull::skull::skull::skull:! America was firmly united in wanting Osama bin Laden's head on a pike. Almost everyone, liberal and conservative put aside our differences when 9/11 happened and stood by the president.

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We would've won Vietnam, we would've won it hands down. But the frapping democrats and hippies start screaming about 'you can't do that, that's taking away the right to Life, that's discrimination'. After that, we pulled out so fast your head would spin.

We got out because Americans were sick of our soldiers dying for no good reason. And by the way, what, exactly, would we have won in Vietnam? (And btw, the Vietnam war was started by a democrat, so that doesn't really fly)

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We never finished the war. We could go right back in and find it practically unchanged since we left.

That is patently false.

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Our soldiers, even wounded soldiers, were spit upon and mobbed when they got back, because they had they're eyes open and saw that if they didn't defend this land then we would fall, and they defended it.

Also false. We did not succeed in Vietnam, and yet America is still standing. And BTW, many of the protesters were soldiers.

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We're so steeped in being fair and politcally correct, and it's so idiotic--they're lying to themselves, listining to whatever the democrats say. I wonder if the majority to the population have thier heads up thier asses for the warmth or the view.

Uh-huh. Everyone listens to the Democrats. Which is why republicans were, until a month ago, in control of all three branches of government. Gee, i don't suppose you have a bridge I could buy, do you?

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The great irony is that the 'great and powerful America', always so prosperous and strong, is constantly called upon by the frappin U.N. to be the world police. And we can't do it. Oh, we try, but then the activists come out of the woodwork shrieking about the constitution.

Huh? The Constitution doesn't have a damn thing to do with our actions overseas.

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The Genocide in Darfur? You know why we're not involved? 1)we're in a war already 2)people will be so shocked over the loss of troops they will immiediatly hit the brakes.

No, we aren't involved in Dafur because NO ONE GIVES A DAMN. Not the American people, and certainly not our government. And the blame for that falls on all sides.

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It's like they never knew that in war people die. And that is just plain stupidity. They see a number of deaths and stop it before it climbs higher. Never had this problem in WWII.

In WWII, we knew why we were fighting. We had a clear sense of purpose. Also, the people we were helping didn't want us dead. That might be a factor. :rolleyes2

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But the necrophobes and anti-Americans have complete control over what we do. (I've never heard of the 'majority' of people on the news. Know why? It's discrimination.)

Oh, come on. If you're gonna keep bringing up the "America-hating-liberals-control-the-country" song and dance, it would be nice if you provided something remotely resembling evidence. :rolleyes2

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George Washington told us never to split--I wish someone had listened to him. Perhaps then we wouldn't be so screwed up.

He also told us to mind our own damn buisness. I wish we'd listend to that.

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No one dies for profit. You can't take any money with you. Those 18-25 year old kids who died at Normandy and the kids who are now dying in Iraq are not doing it to get rich. They re doing it for their troopmates, their family, their beliefs. none of them "profitable". Soldiers don't get mansions.

You are confusing the government with the soldiers. Don't.

You should be shot. The Iraqis are killing us because we don't submit to their effin Allah! They kill Americans becuase we're not like them! They fight us because they hate us and for no other reason. We're so alien to them the can't understand and for that they thinks we should be destroyed! Camaraderie--we have that. They don't.

The Iraqis are killing us because *gasp!* We're in their country! Iraq did not attack us. Al-Queda attacked us, for myriad reasons, none of which involve our freedom.

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We fight for our freedom--They fight us because we have it.

Incredibly simplistic. Not that that suprises me, at this point.

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Ohh, btw, AMERICAN HERE TOO BUT I DON'T CARE BECAUSE WE SUCK

Now, you should be offended.

How about you never say that again and I'll let you go unscathed? Deal? Or no? Go ahead; make my day.

AMERICAN HERE TOO BUT I DON'T CARE BECAUSE WE SUCK
12-21-2006, 07:08 AM
Renmiri

She's just 15... With the reading / viewing comprehension of a 4 year old= 0. All she knows is to regurgitate the pap Limbaugh, Hannity and Ann feed her. Give her a binky and she will stop her tantrum and go back to her nap till their next show.

I wish the OTHER deluded "democrats are the root of all evil" Limbaugh choir boys were that easy to figure out.
12-21-2006, 07:30 AM
nik0tine

Hey Dragon Mage. Hahahahahaha!

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