I think that the original poster is missing the fact that Sora and most of the characters in KH were made by Nomura, and you can't judge a character like Bartz or Terra. You all keep mentioning Cloud and Sephiroth, but honestly those guys aren't even a quarter of the FF universe.
Stats actually don't hold much application in this thread as the plot of a game does not determine a character's beginning and end stats nor do a character's stats determine his role in the plot.
However, Sora does have one strength that the other characters do not. He's young. He has an awful lot of time on his hands to learn how to be just as powerful as any FF character if he ever needed to travel to an FFverse (which will never happen).
Yes. Cloud and Sephiroth are being used a lot mostly because they were included in the KHverse. But PuPu did also mention Kefka and he has no grounds for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick
Very true, lets see Sora beet down Maria and Ririon and the Emporor and The Empror 2 and Caos and Neoexdeath and Ruby element and emerald element and Kefka and Ultemecia and Babl and Zeromus and SIN(GOOD LUCK) AND OMEGA WEAPON AND SHINRYU and Omega and all of the Ultima weapons and deathgaze and Edea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick
Then I will recognize him as #1.....
Well he said Sora was more powerful than ANY FF character from ANY game, and honestly, Kingdom Hearts lurks in a realm of mystery and dreams and there isn't even enough information background-wise about the world to even know what it's like. All we get is a glimpse of each world, and assume that each world is a large expanse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercen-XYes. Cloud and Sephiroth are being used a lot mostly because they were included in the KHverse. But PuPu did also mention Kefka and he has no grounds for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick
The problem with that theory is that each world has its own rules and guidelines, you can't simply just say that Sora is stronger than everyone! In all other FF worlds there ARE no heartless, therefore, Sora, while being an OK swordsman, he is no Terra, he is no Kefka. He can't summon in other worlds, he is merely a boy with a key for a sword, and that's where the argument has to spread out.
If you're playing on the chance there MIGHT be heartless in those worlds, then yes he would be the strongest, but unfortunately, there aren't!
EDIT: Also, Sora isn't the only one who can cross to different worlds. Galuf and a bunch of others from FF5 did so. Actually, even ExDeath himself is from another world.
Why should that matter? I could say the same thing by saying that Cloud and Squall couldn't have defeated any of their enemies without Materia, either.Quote:
But precisely which large army of Heartless have you seen Sora dispatch without the aid of his Keyblade?
No, he's still be an incredibly skilled swordsman, able to slice through buildings and such.Quote:
If he were placed in an FFverse (wherein the Keyblade isn't the weapon of choice for defeating enemies), he'd be just another dopy kid.
The fact that Xemnas had the power on a universal scale vs the other villains which had power on a worldwide scale.Quote:
Nomura admitted to Xemnas being the most powerful KHverse villain. Where did he say anything about him being the most powerful SEverse villain? Where's your proof?
*faceboilingacid*Quote:
The point is then moot as there is no way for you to prove they could not.
You are the one that brought up the assertion that the FF characters could defeat their final bosses single-handedly, thus you need to provide proof that you are right before I have to provide proof that you are wrong. If you can't provide any proof in the first place, then I don't need to prove you wrong, because your assertion automatically fails.
I've seen tons of people use the "I'm right because you can't prove me wrong" tactic, so I'll provide you of an example of why it doesn't work.
Child A says that unicorns exist.
Child B says that Child A can't prove unicorns exist.
Child A says "Well you can't prove that they don't exist!"
According to the logic that you're trying use against me, unicorns are real.
...but it hardly matters what it is commonly seen as or how it applies to other people, since for Sora, it's not a flaw. I mean, if you had to pick a flaw, you could have at least used him being dopey.Quote:
Just because it plays as a strength doesn't mean it is one inherently. Being impulsive and easily angered has always been seen as a flaw of one's character.
...he can still defeat the Heartless, and still do, just like Cloud and Squall in the KHverse. It's just that in this case, the Heartless come back later on. It doesn't weaken his fighting ability.Quote:
Yes, he can dole out massive damage to smaller Heartless, but he doesn't have the Keyblade to finish them so it takes even longer in the end if he can defeat them at all.
For releasing hearts, but not for fighting.Quote:
Anti-Form is just a handicap (not to mention disgusting).
...does it need to be directly said? He gains a form of power that he normally doesn't have, thus becoming stronger. Riku became stronger when he gains the powers of darkness as well.Quote:
And where is it said that he's stronger due to the powers of darkness?
Neither of these actually happen...so what are you trying to say? In either case, the answer is still no.Quote:
So, if Cloud had, like, a Xenomateria with every support, command, summon, magic, and special ability at his disposal, do you still think he'd not be as strong as Sora physically? Or if Squall was equipped with Ultimecia's ultimate Guardian Force Junction?
Even without the Keyblade, there's still the fact that he's an incredibly skilled swordsman. And the power of the heart/will does come into play in certain points of FF games. The final boss of FF9 is one of the more significant examples I can think of.Quote:
The power of Sora's heart wouldn't be worth shet if he were thrust in the FFverse.
And here I thought it was because Nomura signed a contract.Quote:
That's the real reason Disney owns the rights to the original characters of Kingdom Hearts despite the fact that Square Enix created them.
First of all, KH wiki is unmoderated and unsourced trash and never use it for information unless you're sure you can back it up with some other source.Quote:
According the Kingdom Hearts Wiki, Limit Form is really not that great. So, jog on.
Second of all, I have no idea what you mean by "not that great" but I'll cover both possibilities of gameplay and plot.
Gameplay wise, Limit is the best Form in the game, and it is even better than Final. Unlike other forms, you have to ability to use Guard and then use Zantetsu Counter to strike back enemies. But most importantly, you've got "I'M INVINCIBLE" KH1 techniques which are arguably Sora's most damaging attacks in the game, and they also restore HP for hitting enemies. Dodge Roll is also the best Growth ability in the game, giving several times more invincibility frames than in KH1. Example of how good Limit Form is.
Plot wise, he gains all his abilities that he lost since KH1. Remember how Castle Oblivion took away all of his KH1 powers? Limit Form just gave Castle Oblivion a giant middle finger.
What? No he isn't. The fight ended with Sephiroth unfazed at his loss and Sora asking him if he wanted to get beat again.Quote:
Plus, after fighting Sephiroth, he is exhausted,
I'm judging by the power of the enemies that Sora and the FF characters have defeated.Quote:
I think that the original poster is missing the fact that Sora and most of the characters in KH were made by Nomura, and you can't judge a character like Bartz or Terra. You all keep mentioningCloud and Sephiroth, but honestly those guys aren't even a quarter of the FF universe.
He already beat down someone that's stronger than all of those enemies you listed.Quote:
Very true, lets see Sora beet down Maria and Ririon and the Emporor and The Empror 2 and Caos and Neoexdeath and Ruby element and emerald element and Kefka and Ultemecia and Babl and Zeromus and SIN(GOOD LUCK) AND OMEGA WEAPON AND SHINRYU and Omega and all of the Ultima weapons and deathgaze and Edea.
Sora beat the most powerful person in the KH universe single handedly.Quote:
If you're playing on the chance there MIGHT be heartless in those worlds, then yes he would be the strongest, but unfortunately, there aren't!
The FF characters had to form teams of 4-14 people to take out the most powerful person in their world. Sora only needed one other person to help him take out the most powerful person in the KHverse + the strongest power source in the KHverse.
And remember that the power that Sora had to face is on a universal scale, and that the FF characters had to take on power of a worldwide scale.
Very true, lets see Sora beet down Maria and Firion and the Emporor and The Empror 2 and Caos and Neoexdeath and Ruby element and emerald element and Kefka and Ultemecia and Babl and Zeromus and SIN(GOOD LUCK) AND OMEGA WEAPON AND SHINRYU and Omega and all of the Ultima weapons and edea and deathgaze
Sora vs:
Maria
shot
Firion
hit by Ultima
Emperor
Sora wins, hit the emperors nuts
Emperor2
sora dies
Caos
Sora gets hit by meteor
Zeromus
Sora gets hit by Ultima and Yang gives him a wedgie (from the dead)
Ultemecia
CENSORED
Edea
Frozen to death
Neo ex death
Sora wins, neo is just a tree
Neo ex death re
Sora gets pummeled by twenty heads trying to make out with the girl part
Ruby
Sora gets swallowed by sand
Emerald
Sora drowns
Kefka
???
Babl
to gruesome to write
Sin
.................. impossible, like hitting god with a peice of sand
Omega weapon
Sora is obliterated, no funeral
Shinryu
Sora is eaten
Omega
Sora is squished
Deathgaze
Sora dies, duh
Ultima Weapons
ENILATION
gilgamesh
sora wins against excalapoor
Cero (from my own game design: EVERLASTING)
Sora dies of fear at the sight of a twenty mile tall demon
Actually, in the disk damage calculations of KH2, Sora's attack and defense go down by over 60 % in anti form, but his speed increases
sorry about the double post
He's only the most powerful because it's filled with Disney worlds, honestly. What the hell? How can you even compare stats of those enemies? That's like saying we were made by some unknown entity and then not saying anything else.
You need to realize that Sora's world and the other worlds aren't even in the same category. You can't judge the world of Kingdom Hearts to the world of Final Fantasy, as they are completely separate entities, and the character are only there for a slight tie-in to Square Enix, as a business favor to themselves.
I don't have any idea of what you're trying to say here. Explain to me why the fact that KH has Disney worlds matters at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick
KH is a universe of worlds in multiple dimensions (Realm of Light, Realm of Darkness, Realm of In-Between, Realm of Nothing) while FF is typically one world, three in FFV. Hell yeah, they aren't in the same category. KH is a much bigger universe, making its ultimate power source much more significant than the ultimate power sources of FF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick
FF is still only a couple of worlds, and KH is arguably a multiverse.
Not to mention that I'm mostly comparing final bosses, not the worlds themselves.
That's where your research goes wrong. If you want to test who's the stronger, you're going to research the HP, and stats of every monster and enemy in all of the FF worlds and then compare them to each world individually, and then compare each world individually to the Kingdom Hearts 'multiverse'.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuI don't have any idea of what you're trying to say here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick
KH is a universe of worlds in multiple dimensions (Realm of Light, Realm of Darkness, Realm of In-Between, Realm of Nothing) while FF is typically one world, three in FFV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick
FF is still only a couple of worlds, and KH is arguably a multiverse.
Not to mention that I'm mostly comparing final bosses, not the worlds themselves.
Also, what I was pointing out was that Kingdom Hearts is set mostly in a Disney setting, it has little background for itself, it doesn't even explain how anything occurred (though im sure it will if it hasn't, I haven't played BBS nor do I plan to).
Even if Sora killed the most powerful being of that 'multiverse' it has no adverse effect on the other worlds, because the villain of that 'multiverse' doesn't exist in the world of Final Fantasy, and yes Final Fantasy has covered darkness before. Please, I have to ask which you're talking about. Are you talking about Xemnas? Because if you are, he did not beat Xemnas single-handedly.
The stats of Kh are linked to ff, and if you notice, sora never nears the stats of ff heros, and neither does xemnas, his stats are pretty low....
...no I don't. Stats are a gameplay element and reveal nothing as to how strong they are plotwise. Ruby and Emerald Weapon are not stronger than Sephiroth, despite them having stronger stats.Quote:
That's where your research goes wrong. If you want to test who's the stronger, you're going to research the HP, and stats of every monster and enemy in all of the FF worlds and then compare them to each world individually, and then compare each world individually to the Kingdom Hearts 'multiverse'.
I'm not seeing how this matters.Quote:
Also, what I was pointing out was that Kingdom Hearts is set mostly in a Disney setting, it has little background for itself, it doesn't even explain how anything occurred (though im sure it will if it hasn't, I haven't played BBS nor do I plan to).
Again, not seeing how this matters. Plus, Xemnas is stronger than the other FF villains because he is "the strongest being" on a much larger scale.Quote:
Even if Sora killed the most powerful being of that 'multiverse' it has no adverse effect on the other worlds, because the villain of that 'multiverse' doesn't exist in the world of Final Fantasy
YouTube - Kingdom Hearts II - Xemnas 1 (Boss)Quote:
Please, I have to ask which you're talking about. Are you talking about Xemnas? Because if you are, he did not beat Xemnas single-handedly.
Incorrect.Quote:
The stats of Kh are linked to ff, and if you notice, sora never nears the stats of ff heros, and neither does xemnas, his stats are pretty low....
Again, you're not understanding that those universes, multiverses, whatever do not cross. They do not exist within each other. If you put Sora in an FF game he wouldn't make it 3 steps. If you put Terra in Kingdom Hearts she wouldn't make it 3 steps. It's all irrelevant and a useless argument.
You're not getting it either. I never proposed the "crossing universes" schtick, this was something that was brought up by others in this topic.
I was always trying to say that Sora's strength in KH is stronger than FF characters in FF.
Not Sora in FF. Not FF characters in KH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
The problem is that you can't simply just say that, you need facts, you need stats. When you compare two differentworldsuniverses you need to have some kind of proof instead of just randomly blurting out something like that.
How do you know that just because Xemnas was the most powerful in his multiverse he's more powerful than someone like Kefka? ExDeath?
That's insane, and that's not how someone goes about reaching that kind of conclusion.