Worst Character Ever?

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

I'll have to play again to see just how much of Delita's activities Ramza is aware of (though, early on, the player only sees what Ramza sees of Delita, and I was still convinced he was a villain really early). And I won't do that until at least after I finish Persona 4, and if I can find a way to play without falling into the progression trap.

And I do admit that my view may be somewhat skewed by the way someone spoiled Delita's ending scene for me when I was only halfway through the story. I already thought he was a villain, but that scene absolutely enraged me. The first person in the story who agreed with me that he was a monster, and a character I liked, gets killed trying to stop him. Yeah, I basically quit playing then and only barely managed to squeak my way through the story over a couple of years. And more than anything else, that scene destroyed my love of this game, so it might have been the way I encountered it.

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Yeah you should replay it with open mind, not thinking of the spoilers.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

I'll have to play again to see just how much of Delita's activities Ramza is aware of (though, early on, the player only sees what Ramza sees of Delita, and I was still convinced he was a villain really early). And I won't do that until at least after I finish Persona 4, and if I can find a way to play without falling into the progression trap.

And I do admit that my view may be somewhat skewed by the way someone spoiled Delita's ending scene for me when I was only halfway through the story. I already thought he was a villain, but that scene absolutely enraged me. The first person in the story who agreed with me that he was a monster, and a character I liked, gets killed trying to stop him. Yeah, I basically quit playing then and only barely managed to squeak my way through the story over a couple of years. And more than anything else, that scene destroyed my love of this game, so it might have been the way I encountered it.

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That would do it, though I don't feel we're meant to really like Delita, just simply see him as a cautionary tale. He's a hero to the world, but the player is the one who is privy to who he really is. I mean the whole story is told as a heretical manuscript that the Church had been keeping silent for ages, because it paints a historical hero as a scheming monster, and a forgotten heretic as the true hero of Ivalice. It would be like finding a diary today in the U.S. that painted George Washington as a manipulative coward who spun a good story to make himself a hero and that Benedict Arnold was the true hero of the Revolutionary War. I doubt it would go over very well, since both figures have pretty much been marked by history.

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As to the world, though... Sure, it's a crapsack world. You can tell that by the way its color scheme inspired modern shooters (Ivalice was made of grey, brown, and spells in that game).

That doesn't excuse a hero not being heroic, though. FFX is a crapsack world ruled by corrupt, oppressive regime. The story is about the heroes overcoming that to save the world.

Evil only succeeds when good men do nothing.

Oh, and Ivalice's fate is too important. Ivalice is possibly the best world Square ever made. It doesn't deserve to be abandoned.

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Well Ivalice wasn't abandoned, it simply marched on like most history. I also disagree about FFX being a real crapsack world since I feel its cosmology undermines the drama of it all, and technically it's corrupt regime are well intentioned extremist who simply wanted people to have hope and remain in power in doing so.

Still, I feel a real crapsack world is one where the world itself can never escape being a crapsack world and that is the difference between FFX and FFTactics, Spira is ultimately saved from what makes it a crapsack world, whereas Ivalice can't really be saved cause even if a good regime is in power, it will eventually grow corrupt or some new dark power will arise to destroy it, I mean FFXII's Creation Myth pretty much tells you that Ivalice exists to torture a fallen god for all eternity. Ivalice is a world filled with people, and not the idealistic notion of a mostly good people with one or two bad eggs that cause conflict, I'm talking about a world where most people are somewhat selfish and make mistakes that cause terrible consequences for other. Even well intentioned Idealist can be transformed into complete monsters, much like Delita whom I feel we can at least agree that his goal was actually really good, it's just his methods and what he became that prevents him from being an anti-hero, let alone a true hero. I feel it's this very quality that sets it apart from the main FF series, because ultimately the main FF series is about good versus evil, whereas Tactics makes you question who the good guys are and whether the villains are actually right in what they are trying to accomplish. The Ivalice titles that Matsuno worked on carry this trait, whether it be FFTactics, Vagrant Story, FFTactics Advance, or FFXII.

Okay I have a new choice. Rosa was bland but I guess she wasn't badly written overall for what she was.

Not like this travesty.
(SPOILER)http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../Lucrecia1.jpg

Even by Dirge of Cerberus standards she stands out as the most unintelligent, unlikable, unsympathetic and badly-written piece of trash imaginable. I get Vinny-Mac was in love and love makes you dumb and blind but there is no excuse for him liking her after he learns the truth about everything.

Lucrecia comes off as only slightly less monstrous than Hojo and the tragedy of it is that this was clearly not what they intended. They were trying to make you feel sorry for her.

I can safely say that Square has rarely failed so absolutely. I'd take almost any character you can name over Lucrecia.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

Okay I have a new choice. Rosa was bland but I guess she wasn't badly written overall for what she was.

Not like this travesty.
(SPOILER)http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../Lucrecia1.jpg

Even by Dirge of Cerberus standards she stands out as the most unintelligent, unlikable, unsympathetic and badly-written piece of trash imaginable. I get Vinny-Mac was in love and love makes you dumb and blind but there is no excuse for him liking her after he learns the truth about everything.

Lucrecia comes off as only slightly less monstrous than Hojo and the tragedy of it is that this was clearly not what they intended. They were trying to make you feel sorry for her.

I can safely say that Square has rarely failed so absolutely. I'd take almost any character you can name over Lucrecia.

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She looks hot though.

Meh. For DOC scientists, I'll take Shalua.
(SPOILER)http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...f9/Shalua2.jpg