That Bloke in the Pipe [SPOILERS]

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Originally posted by Dr. Disco


Considering this was five years later, and the Jenova cells had no effect on him anyway, yup, I guess you got me there.

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no, it wasn't five years later. Do you think they instantaneously teleported to midgar from nibelheim? No, it took them awhile to get there. And in any case, he still survived.

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I'm no pediatrician, but WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? You can still get Vincent on Disc 3.

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Yeah, I know. If he can walk to the reunion, he can wake up and walk back, ya know.

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1)The Jenova cells didn't turn into random horror movie monsters, they turned into Jenova monsters. Their actual genetics didn't change, it was more like they grew into the Jenova battles. Oh, and I believe Jenova Synthesis was the real Jenova.
2)Combining with those other two monsters is what got Hojo on his way to mutation.

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they still grew. And none of them looked like the Jenova that you see in shinra, or at nibelheim.

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Could you tell me, exactly, where it says Vincent actually died? Here's a little help to get you on your way:IT DOESN'T.

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I'm pretty sure that in the letter hojo leaves, he says that he "brought him back". Back from what? Mexico?

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Blah.

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Agreed.

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That's fair, but keep in mind Hojo still destroyed Lucrecia's life. That would be enough incentive to join Cloud and go after him.

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But vincent didn't blame hojo. He blamed himself. That's why he was sleeping. If he wanted to kill hojo, he could have done that right when hojo finished the job on him.

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Its possible in the sense that Barret is really the Lord Jesus Christ that got lost in a dimensional warp to go fight the ShinRa in Final Fantasy VII. It doesn't say it in the game, and you never know, but it'd be pretty stupid if he was.

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It's a long shot, but could make sense. That's all I'm saying. Once again, defending the theory for fanfic purposes.

It DOESN'T say "brought him back"; it says "scientifically altered him and put him to sleep." Now, I suspect it may say scientifically in one version and genetically in another, but nowhere in the Hojo's letter does he refer to bringing Vincent back from anywhere.

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Originally posted by Nicholas D. Wolfwood
Yeah, I know. If he can walk to the reunion, he can wake up and walk back, ya know.

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Watch the scene in the Whirlwind Maze again, the one in which all the Jenova-riddled cloaked men are marching toward the site of the Reunion. Sephiroth (in appearance, at least) eventually encounters them, and then what does he do? He slaughters them, all of them. I somehow don't see Vincent walking back from that.

Speaking of the men at the Reunion, they were also injected with Jenova cells but they got killed with a single slash. I think that one bullet to Zack's head would kill him enough and I didn't quite see too many (none) of the black cloaked people get up from that slash.

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Originally posted by Nicholas D. Wolfwood
no, it wasn't five years later. Do you think they instantaneously teleported to midgar from nibelheim? No, it took them awhile to get there. And in any case, he still survived.

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Umm, I'm pretty sure they spent five years in the ShinRa Mansion. I mean, it might've taken a kind of long while to get to Nibelheim from there, but it can't have been that long, since they even hitched a ride at least once.
I mean, hell, FFVII itself doesn't happen over a course of years, and your party goes from end to end of the globe, several times.

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Yeah, I know. If he can walk to the reunion, he can wake up and walk back, ya know.

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What kishi said.

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they still grew. And none of them looked like the Jenova that you see in shinra, or at nibelheim.

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Actually, they did. Same tentacle-ish structures sprouting from the shoulders, same fat bottom-half, same breasts.

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I'm pretty sure that in the letter hojo leaves, he says that he "brought him back". Back from what? Mexico?

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What lungy said.

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Agreed.

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A woman made entirely out of pie?

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But vincent didn't blame hojo. He blamed himself. That's why he was sleeping. If he wanted to kill hojo, he could have done that right when hojo finished the job on him.

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True, but he still hated Hojo.

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It's a long shot, but could make sense. That's all I'm saying. Once again, defending the theory for fanfic purposes.

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Not just a long shot, a really big fuggin' long shot.

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Originally posted by Dr. Disco


Umm, I'm pretty sure they spent five years in the ShinRa Mansion. I mean, it might've taken a kind of long while to get to Nibelheim from there, but it can't have been that long, since they even hitched a ride at least once.
I mean, hell, FFVII itself doesn't happen over a course of years, and your party goes from end to end of the globe, several times.

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It normally would have taken them a great deal of months to do that. They're just not gonna show all that in the game, because they want it to progress a bit faster, thus cloud makes it 100 miles in a single step. At the speed that truck was going, it would have taken them all day to get from gongaga to cosmo canyon.

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What kishi said.[/B]

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Vincent would have fallen back from the others. They were roaming freely around not just nibelheim, but the whole world. Vincent was in a coffin in a locked basement room.

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Actually, they did. Same tentacle-ish structures sprouting from the shoulders, same fat bottom-half, same breasts.

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That's odd, I could have sworn they were a helluva lot bigger than the Jenova Sephiroth removed from nibelheim.

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What lungy said.

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Well, then maybe he wasn't dead. That I'll admit. It's been awhile since I played that part....but there's a possibility that he died. And though everything I'm explaining in my posts is a longshot, it's still possible.

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A woman made entirely out of pie?

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Only apple pie.

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True, but he still hated Hojo.

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But he already knew of Hojo. Something else made him change his mind when you left the basement.

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Not just a long shot, a really big fuggin' long shot.

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And still holding that small window where the light of possibility can shine through......

Well, this debate has gone just about as far as it can...there's an extremely, extremely slim chance Vincent was a Sephiroth clone and Zack survived(Read:No and no), which could be used for fan fiction, but, yeah. If we were to continue, it'd go like this:
Me:"So, Zack was shot repeatedly in the face with a machine gun but survived because of his Jenova healing powers, and was also a Sephiroth clone for some reason. Also, Vincent was a Sephiroth clone who headed towards the Reunion but didn't make it then went back(And apparently re-locked the door and put the key back in the safe with the monster)."

You:"Hey, it could've happened!"

...Wait, I just realized how insane your entire theory sounds. No, there is no way that man is Zack. If it was, why would he have the number tattoo? Cloud didn't get one, now did he?

I guess this debate ISN'T over, so
<Image edited by Kishi, for the sake of the children.>

just where did I say anybody was a sephiroth clone? I said they had Jenova cells. That doesn't mean anybody with Jenova cells is a sephiroth clone. Zack had a number, yes. So did Nanaki, in case you hadn't noticed. Nor did I say Vincent "never made it" to the reunion, though it is a more plausible theory that he tried, but couldn't get past the locked door. I originally meant that he made it there after your party already passed through. But hey, I'll stick with whatever's simpler to explain. So once again, it's possible. Possible. I didn't say it's the truth, or that it holds relevance to the game, or even that it was probable. I was saying that through certain explanation and assumption, it's possible. Let's leave it at that. Unless you have more misunderstandings and questions that you're going to try and throw into it.

Wolfwood & Dr Disco:

1) If Zack was treated with the same Jenova/Mako mix that was used on Cloud and the Clones, he was a Clone, even if he had no reaction: he'd had the same treatments.

2) Vincent was NOT a clone: whatever was done to him was done thirty-ish years before Hojo did the clones.

3) Zack did not have a number; like Cloud.

4) A locked door, stopping Vincent? The same guy who can, oh, turn into ferocious monsters and toss a solid metal coffin lid across a room with his mind? Like hell. And if he got out, how did he manage to relock the door when he'd put the key back in the safe?

5) Vincent's status as live or dead is questionable: he's been in a coffin for thirty years, no water, possibly even no air. Metabolically speaking, he must be dead. Whether or not Hojo shooting him was the cause of his death is highly debatable.

To what you said about vincent's limit break, he can only transform if his limit guage fills. In an empty room with no enemies, how exactly does that happen? His only way of getting out would be to shoot the door. If it's sturdy enough, that's not gonna do much.

Actually, there are bats around there *shudders at pesky blood-suckin bats*

Wolfwood, you do know that Vincent enters your party with a half-full limit metre, don't you?

exactly. If it were empty, that would mean that he's used the limit break recently, knocking down the door. Half full is how far he got it over the past several years, and it would take him several years to get it that high fighting bats.

All of this makes so much sense, did you know you can also revive Aeris?[sarcasm]

It's possible. That's all I'm saying. For the fiftieth time in this topic....it appears that I have to say that at least every other post. But in any case, sephex, note that your sarcasm adds nothing to this debate. It makes no point. It proves nothing. All it is is an attempted mockery. We don't need it here. So until you find a way to make yourself useful, keep your mouth shut.