whos squall's dad?

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Celes Laguna demonstrated the will to see his little elleone, but fate played the cards against him so many times. It seems that every time that Laguna managed to track down elle, he was marginally late. By the time Squall meets Laguna many years have past and we see a bit of a mixed reaction. Elle is happy to see Laguna, while Squall can only see the man as the father he never had. Squall and Laguna do not connect on the personal level, but in nature they connect absolutely. The Mooba blood scene, the shumis, ragnarok, the sorceress wars and the repeated love.. i.e. Squall and Rinoa complete the chain of Laguna and Julia.. demonstrate the cyclical nature of events.

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You could say there's a tendency in FFVIII for things to repeat themselves, yes.

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Although pheonix somehow manages to maintain that these events are all due to a poorly written plot, one can see that these works would have been impossible on a conscious level. The relationship between Tidus and Jecht was overt, forced and obvious...

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Gah... must we compare this with other FF's again?

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FF8 capture the fallen son theme perfectly, and in an ironical twist it is the son who unwittingly rejects his father not by ignoring him, but by forsaking him on account of his personality. Laguna represents the traits that Squall despises and if Squall has a conscious knowledge of who his father actually is (it is debatable) Squall chooses on his own instincts, not to embrace Laguna.

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Mind you that I would CERTAINLY understand Squall if he would reject Laguna as his father consciously. As I said, both Squall and Laguna hurt others and themselves. Laguna by bonding to easy with others (forgetting his old bonds) while Squall hardly makes any bonds with others at all, holding on to being a SeeD.

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One could say that this is a condition of teenage attitude (rejecting ones parents....yes that fits nicely) OR one could say that it is an extension of the Platonic forms... The more equal things become the less equal they actually are, and it seems that Laguna and Squall are very equal in many ways, yet they seem so very distant.

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I really doubt the makers of FF have let themselves be inspired by Plato. Genesis, yes. After all, with names as Garden, Eden, and such, it's clear they're going for a theme. but Plato... nah...

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By the way.... Have you ever wondered why its Rinoa Heartly and not Caraway? Perhaps Julia used her sir name on the birth certificate for Rinoa...since she did not know Lagunas sir name.

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I would say Rinoa calls herself like that because of a bad relation with her father. And I think it's been shown that Laguna cannot be Rinoa's father.

[quote] In a way though, you could say that Rinoa acts a lot like Laguna, while Squall seems to be much more akin to Caraway then Laguna. Oidipous and Elektra anyone? (no, no, not saying the makers read Sophokles or something, just a general thing that often seems to come back in lots of cultures. And Squall should fall for someone like RAINE for a proper Oidipous thingie. And I'm rambling and putting way too much stuff between parentheses)

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At least in ff8 we can debate mad things like this, all I see in the other FF forums is descriptions and argument.
(except for cases like Sephiroth the king could beat shinobi in an arm-wrestle)

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*burns a few candles in front of the altar of the God of Not Getting Into FFVII VS FFVIII debates*

I'm agnostic, but.... just for this case I'll make an exception.

Besimudo, yes it shows cyclical natures. But it wasn't like they did it cleverly. They just stopped the flow of the regular plot, and jumped into making you play through the same thing with Laguna.
Laguna being Squall's father was ruined by the Ragnorok bits, and didn't add to the story much at all (excluding cyclic themes).

I don't know how lazy you are with other forums, but there are plenty of theories and debates for VII, probably more than VIII.

I would just like to clarify with raven, that the sorceress is the descendent of the great Hyne (god).. So the sorcs do have a mythical origin.. as I pointed out..but no you doubted me...and i guess you shouldn’t have....

I commend Al on classical spellings... I hope also that you accept Kronos over Cronos !

As for phoenix.. the sepi / jenova theme was what I would call mediocre, It lacked the interest of the other FF title. (throws a few more unsubstantiated claims in), then reminds besimudo that FF7 has some good forum debate.

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As for phoenix.. the sepi / jenova theme was what I would call mediocre, It lacked the interest of the other FF title. (throws a few more unsubstantiated claims in), then reminds besimudo that FF7 has some good forum debate

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I wanted to understand this, really I did.

When are you told Laguna is Squall's dad? I've only ever gotten as far as Ultimecia's Castle and never heard anything about it. Are you told afterwards, nearer the end of the game?

Go speak to Laguna and Co. on the Ragnorok before Lunatic Pandora, thats when it's pretty much confirmed.

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Originally posted by Darkness
When are you told Laguna is Squall's dad? I've only ever gotten as far as Ultimecia's Castle and never heard anything about it. Are you told afterwards, nearer the end of the game?

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It's all throughout the game, and the hints are about as subtle as a brick.

I think in some cases, the story of Laguna and Julia somewhat mimic the situation with Quistis. Quistis was attracted to Squall, but it was simply not meant to be. Laguna and Julia probably could have had a wonderful relationship. Laguna had made frequent stops to watch Julia, and their relationship was just budding.

I think being called off to war is a bit different than a "job." Soldiers (particularly in such a strong militant country such as Galbaldia) don't really have a choice when it comes to being shipped out. Laguna didn't want to leave.

But in the end, it all worked out, didn't it?

In all honesty, I don't think that Laguna knew Raine was pregnant. And if he did know, he must have thought that he would return home soon. He has such a large heart and can't tell anyone no, which would explain him staying in Esthar. I don't think he meant to abandon Raine or Squall on purpose. When he caught wind of Raine's death, I'm sure it would have been extremely painful for him to return to Winhill. So he probably buried himself in his work.

Winhill didn't like Laguna. I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't tell Laguna about Squall, that he died in childbirth along with his mother.

That is my own personal theory, anyway.

He did't knew. think about it, if he did he would have searched for squall like he searched for ellone. he didn't because he didn't knew he existed.
besides i think the game says something like "short after laguna left, raine discovered she was pregnant" or something like that.
Perhaps they made love the night before he left, as a consolation or a remembrance of their love.

>he didn't knew he existed.

I think that's right, but Ellone could have told him...
I believe, that there's a strong relationship between father and son, so Laguna and Squall were noticing that there's a connection, anyway ;)

True, bud when Squall appeared, he DID know. How long did he know? And he DID know Ellone was alive. And Ellone knew Squall was alive (I thought they were sent to Edea's oprhanage together) Couldn't he have stayed in touch by her.

And Laguna HAS a big heart indeed. Problem with big hearts is that, after a while, there's so much in it you're bound to betray one you love for another one. You can be loyal to only so many...

Also, My spelling. Well, I am studying to teach Latin, so I better keep my spelling correct. But Dutch doesn't really change the names as much as English, so all Dutch speaking people refer to Plato as Plato. And if I'm talking about the son of Ouranos who castrated his father and stuff like that... yes, then I refer to Kronos. Any other characters can have their names spelled as they like.

(I also spell Caesar as kajzar... yep, I'm a pedantic bastard like that.)

Ellone did know, and she did tell Laguna. When they met up.

Ellone and Squall were sent to live in the orphanage.
Five or six years later (maybe even more, it is hard to judge) Ellone disappeared. But where too? From deductive reasoning we can say that it wasnt Laguna who came and picked her up, because he would have taken Squall as well. Edea must have placed Ellone in a more secure area.

Ellone stayed under the care of Edea and the White SeeD up until the Estharians came to the White SeeD ship. (We learn this when Squall visits the ship and talks to the SeeDs) Ellone is then escorted into space where at last she meets Laguna and tells him everything.

Laguna indicates that he has much to tell Squall about when the mission is all over... Then he said something along the lines of "if you dont wish to hear about it, thats ok".

It seems that Squall, rejected the offer to hear what he (as the player) had already deduced. This is one interesting feature of Squall, it is generally the player who reacts to his internal "chaos", this is very contrasting compared with Clouds literal breakdown, when squall "broke down" he told the player and the sleeping angel (Rinoa). Cloud put on a public demonstration for the team... and afterwards his character was deminished (appeared weak).

Besides, when I saw Laguna standing in the presidential palace, I reacted similarly with Squall “what is this idiot doing here”.

This is the universal form of the “leader” …He is naturally friends with everyone, yet the most important people suffer. This is followed in The Three Kingdoms with the Character of Liu Bei (I am sure some people have played Dynasty warriors or better still read the novels). Liu Bei (Xaunde) pledges fraternity to Guan Yu and Zhange fei… This is fine when they operate as warriors but when Liu bei becomes involved in expanding the kingdom of Shu he is forced to betray their oath and then Guan Yu is captured and killed. Shortly after Zhang fei learns of the death of his brother and goes on a rampage (resulting in death).

NOTE: that Laguna was also part of a trio, it seems that this theme is universal….yet again we see more parallels with higher literature.

http://www.eyesonff.com/ff8/ency/s.shtml

Look up Squall
it may or not be true, but it is what eyesonff says it is, and they are the ones that hold this forum so who knows.

Laguna and Raine were married and had a kid so Squall's real name is Squall Loire.