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What sarcasm? I didn't see a connection between that little anecdote and this current subject, and was waiting for clarification. Maybe you were responding to someone other than who I thought you were, or maybe your response isn't as self-evident as you think it is. Either way, your logic isn't as "self-evident" as you deem it to be, or otherwise more people would follow it.
It's obvious enough. More simply put, for those who need it: the attempt to kill is, morally (also legally, since that's so important to you) the same thing as killing.
...but when were we discussing attempt? In my example(if that's what you're talking about), the man didn't know the woman had sperm in her, and wasn't trying to kill her baby.
I didnt find it obvious.
I have no beef with abortion within the first few months. I dont think taking a life that hasnt begun is wrong. Taking a life before it begins is abortion. Taking a life in the middle of that life is murder. I cant understand how people can mistake one for the other.
Destai, you get my "Logic" reward. :love:
( :D )
In todays world(at least in the developed countries for sure) there is not a super large chance of the baby being still born(that is the term I am looking for right?)... true it happens.. but we can do an awful lot with our technology.
I know a lady who technically can't have a baby due to the fact that she can't get it to exit the womb.. so anytime she is pregnet she needs a C-section amoung other things. She also happens to have a problem getting her eggs fertilized... and she made a comment before about the wonders of medical science, because she needs so much in order for pregency to insue(she takes a form of medicine to up fertality, as well as has to be super careful while pregnet, also she just had a baby a bit ago, still recovering though.. it is really tough on her.)
Anyways.. I got off on a tangent.. that actually doesn't have much to do with this thread except the fact that we are constantly getting better and better at preserving life... we are also getting better at killing life, unfortunately.
And I am almost tempted to avoid this topic cuase I keep swaying... sometimes I am all for it(very rarely, cause of all the very obvious misuse(it takes an awful lot to justify killing something.. and even more to justify killing a person)), others I am all against, and most of the time I am for it in certian extremes... or if it is really heavily regulated.
Hey!!! I got an idea if you really don't want a kid but love to sleep around, isnt' there a way to permently keep you from having one... you know zilch chance. If you end up wanting a kid later you could just adopt.
Id rather have my own child. I shouldnt throw away being able to give life so I can sllep around. Id rather use a condomn or pay for abortion. You can have an operation like you just described. It can be done on both sexes.If you're reffering to abortion here, many wouldnt consider abortion taking life as a life hasnt yet begun.Quote:
we are also getting better at killing life, unfortunately.
actually in a sense life has begun... I mean goodness sake Cells are a form of life.. they just aren't human life. And anyways I really feel there is no need for abortion due to hte amount of protection there is out htere.. you have condoms, birth control, after morning pills... maybe after after morning pills, etc... but abortion is usually late enough in the game that, I , at least consider it life.
So you may not be killing a "human" when you have an abortion but you are ending a "life form"
Oh boy.. this is one of those posts in which I am completely against... ah well, to balance it out I will give my own insight on why I hold my argument thus.
Irresponsibility is no reason not to accept consequence.. and since I am completely against right now.. not even in rape(after morning pill).
oh yes I said the operation as sarcasm... the sorta sarcasm one of my teachers would use.. hard to see even if you know the person. I was joking... that would be like... a last resort type of thing... I don't believe in taking such a perment action for something short lived or of such a thing as we are talking about now(I say short lived cause I don't think most people sleep around and don't want the resulting children their whole life... or maybe I am just diluded.)
And as an insight to my character for you all. the big reason I am agianst it is cause of irresponsibility, if more americans showed responsibitly I would likely be less rock-like. But with the trend as it is I believe EVERYTHING must be done to stop it.. America is rotting from the inside out... we don't need terrorists or opposing regimes to destroy us.. we'll do it ourselves... and this not accepting responsibility is part of it. So I am HIGHLY BIASED on this.
Its wrong to kill cells now? Well thats certainly far different from murder so Im not concerned about that.Quote:
actually in a sense life has begun... I mean goodness sake Cells are a form of life.. they just aren't human life. And anyways I really feel there is no need for abortion due to hte amount of protection there is out htere.. you have condoms, birth control, after morning pills... maybe after after morning pills, etc... but abortion is usually late enough in the game that, I , at least consider it life.
Thats debateable. I call it not letting a life form begin.Quote:
So you may not be killing a "human" when you have an abortion but you are ending a "life form"
edit: forget that last point. The term "lifeform" as in a cluster of cells makes me think of a vegetable. Its alive but it doesnt feel anything. When its born or at least in the last few months its alive it takes on some form of life. The way you've phrased it reminds me of the difference between vegetables and meat.
Personally, I don't believe a woman shouldn't have to go through a pregnancy if she doesn't want to. On the other hand, I don't believea woman should use abortion as birth control either. It's just....in a few cases, if a woman is MADE to carry a baby to term, she can grow resentful of the child (And I have seen this.) And what about a young couple who just had a whoops....and just can't afford to have a child? And as for putting the child up for adoption, that's fine. For one or two. But think about the fact that as it stands, thousands of women are having abortions, across North America, not to mention the world. Can I ask, who's gonna take in all these kids? Because otherwise, they'll just be fed to the system, and become bitter and resentful. All in all, there are cases, I think, that aborting the child is far more merciful than bringing it into the world.
Amen to that. For the mother and child.Quote:
In my opinion it's enough, if a girl has been raped. Forcing her to keep the baby seems cruel to me.
They had to pass a new law (called Laci and Connors law) to pull that off, and Pro-choicers opposed it, because we knew this argument would come up. :mad:Quote:
Ol' Scotty was charged with the murder of his wife AND their unborn child. But if his wife had wanted their child murdered and had it done herself, it would be perfectly legal. In fact, if his wife had had an abortion the day before she was murdered, it would have only been a single-murder case, and the death of her baby would go unpunished by law.
Yeah, don't even get me STARTED on the whole Scott Peterson thing..... :mad2:
hmm.. did I come accross as I thought it was wrong to kill cells? oh shoot that wasn't what I was aiming for... I seem to be hitting off-base here lately.
The cell thing was simply to say that it is "Alive" at least in a biological sense... not human not a person, but life. We end life all the time, for food, for self defense, etc..
You can justify those. Do I think killing an animal, when is not attacking you, your family, or your freinds, and when you aren't going to use it as food, is right? No I don't.
Aborting a baby in many cases is just a sign of irresponsibility.. and not a reason to kill something. And it is not our right to decide whether or not a child would want to be born into poverty or into a not so nice family.
I know several people who have had hard lives... but you know what they are VERY GLAD that they are alive... humans can prosper even in harsh situations... just cause life could be rough doesn't mean we should end that life. Mercy killing can only take place when that person asks you to kill them.
Edited some things.. I really ain't on base today.. I'd best wait till I start hitting better.
different opinions different situations
personally i think that abortions are perfectly alright. yes are horrible and emotionally straining. but how can you say a 14 year old girl is old enough to propally parent a child?
some people can have support off their parents and friends, some have none at all. would you deny a girls childhood because of a mistake and finantial circumstance?
i can understand the against point of view. how old does an embryo have to be before its a baby? they can supposidly feel pain way before the alloted 24 weeks.
abortion should not be used as an excuse to have unprotected sex. it should only be used if all other options have been exhasted,