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no one isn't arguing over the whole freedom is slavery thing.They're mad at your statement above cloud.the over all thing.which wasn't based ont eh freedom is slavery thing but you did put a statement in ther ebut nope that statement isn't wat pissed everyong off,
No, that's pretty much exactly what we're arguing against.Quote:
no one isn't arguing over the whole freedom is slavery thing.
I just keep coming back for more.Im gonna until i get banned =)
I hate people who take, take, and take. Yet when they are called upon to give, they run away. Yeh u might give taxes, but comeon that doesnt equate to military service.
The war is wrong, the war was wrong, the war was never right, and never will be right. BUT the war happened. And now US soldiers are dying and we cant leave. If u want freedom from a draft why not just go to a country without an army. Me im going to stay and serve my country, and hopefully get us the hell out of Iraq as fast as possible.
Well, sure. But like The Man apparently got and I didn't, you're pointing out some American hypocrisy. Good on you. This was the first time you pointed out something that I can agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud No.9
Of course, freedom can't be supported with involuntary servitude. That's a flagrant contradiction. This is really all of the Iraqi War's fault. It was an irrational (though not all-out evil; America did oust a dictator, but at what expense?) expedition, and now people such as myself (who value individual rights) have to fight things such as the draft.
It's still not as if all of America is blaming themselves, though. As Behold the Void pointed out, a huge chunk of Americans really dislike that this war is being waged. If they institute a draft, it'd only make that obvious : they have to pass a law enslaving us to fight it.
dude what you have to understand is the faact that you should never support a draft especially since we are a republic dude.We have an all volunteer army dude.A draft just forces you to fight and die.YOu should never be forced to fight and die dude never ever ever forced.It takes away freedom sure oyu can be patriotic about it and sya troops are dying but yeah they wanted to die and trust me its best to fight side by side with volunteers than with draftees.Now the reason why recruitment is suffering is basicly because parents are telling kids to get it in gear and get ther ebutts in college so they won't have to get themselves in aQuote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquallandZidane
ty war int eh military.War sucks your right but the Iraqi War ain't fighitng for our rights if it was dude.Then there will be more people volunteering to fight in the military.
if the only thing that is keeping you in america is cheap education come to scotland. it's all free here and we need new people we have a population problem.
what needs to be asked is. why the draft? are we that short of soldiers? if american is actually running out of soldiers then you are in serious serious trouble. has anyone noticed it would be a draft not in war time? there are plenty of america soldiers. they haven't all been killed. so why the draft? it's population control. subservience. an enforcement of mass politicalisation. it chnages people from civillians into soldiers. with duties to the country. it breaks down reluctance and opposition.
also....... if the draft came in meaning that alot of civillains were now soldiers then..... an attack like 9-11 would make it a military target not a civillian one. it would no longer be an act of terrorism or a crime, it would be an act of war like the bombing of berlin.
That's your choice. But you cannot say that everyone else is obligated to - that goes against any concept of freedom. The country is NOT more important than I am, or than any other person is, and does NOT have a claim on my life.Quote:
The war is wrong, the war was wrong, the war was never right, and never will be right. BUT the war happened. And now US soldiers are dying and we cant leave. If u want freedom from a draft why not just go to a country without an army. Me im going to stay and serve my country, and hopefully get us the hell out of Iraq as fast as possible
Scotland's actually where I'm planning to move when I'm finished with my education, but the cost of living differences are so great at the moment I'm not honestly sure it'd be cheaper. I'm given to understand that education is only free for people who are Scottish citizens. (That said, I could probably just go ahead and marry my girlfriend and thereby become a Scottish citizen, but I'm not sure that's a step I'm ready to take).
I guess what I'm starting to think is: If there's no real threat to American security, and there aren't enough people still willing to fight there, then why are we over there? Seems like a waste. That said, pulling out now is likely to create another Afghanistan, so I'm not entirely sure that'd be a wise decision in the long run.
Also, what Raistlin said.
by international law the war is illegal. and by the principles established at nuremburg those partaking in it are guilty as much as their commanding officer.
i would not fight in a war which made me a war criminal. i would not fight a war which i do not believe in. the war is of no benefit to me and so i have no obligation to risk my life for something i do not believe in.
I don't see a draft happening if the support for the war and the president is so low.
I suppose I wouldn't mind a stint in the armed services - it would be quite an experience, and I don't really have any personal regard for my physical health anyways.
Okay.
So. Draft Dodging - stupid
the Draft - more stupid.
What do you hope to accomplish by dodging a draft. One honest voice is louder than the voice of a crowd (unless that crowd is honest). If the draft were to be initiated, which is highly highly highly unlikely, whose going to arrest all those people. Sure, big cities will have arrests, but the majority of people live in suburbs and rural communities, small towns, where everyone knows everyone else (in a sense). Police-men aren't always the true enforcers of the law, and I doubt they will send police to arrest everyone who simply ignores the draft, which if it happens, i will simply ignore it. What will they do, throw me in jail, that's great, then i'll sue the government when i'm raped or something by big bubba.
Honestly, this thread is a bunch of hysteria.
Im not 18. My bros are. Its scary as hell knowin that if one goes, so does the other. My bro says he would fight any day of the week if he was fighting for what he believed for. But we're fighting over oil. wtf. Why should anyone have to bust their ass for a mees thats our leaders, but still....... everyone votes for him.
well, not serving in a war we don't believe in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marick
Given the behaviour of the government recently, it's not unreasonable to expect them to treat draft dodgers exactly the way they treated them in the Sixties, which wasn't particularly kindly.
I protest war by being peaceful. Participating in the war would be going against my own beliefs, which I'm free to enjoy. Now if my freedom to be a peaceful person was threatened I'd be willing to help in a non-combative way, but that's not the case so no worries.
A draft isn't generally a good idea with the way we fight wars anyways (i.e. firebomb the crap out of people). When we do send in ground troops, we need them to be trained, the US has one of if not the best fighting forces in the world and that is in no small part to their training. I believe my friend said that the rough battlefield estimate is at a minimum 23 opponents to each 1 US soldier. Draftees would really throw that off, not to mention that conscripts make the WORST soldiers.
I really do not think there will be a draft.