g8 results

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Originally Posted by Shoden

the AIDS thing is because they are catholics


for some stupid reason the smurfed up catholic religions wont allow use of condoms or abortion


there should be more Aid and tell Africa to take care of itself with the money

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That's not true! It's because they don't have the medical resources over there that we do!
I think poverty in Africa could be abolished, it would take absoloutely ages, but it can't be impossible, if every country and continent helped Africa it wouldn't be in the state it's in now!
My cousin is out in Africa, helping to teach children, she's only 20! I feel sorry for her because the children have been taught she is white, and therefore isn't alive, she is one of the living dead! I think that is so scary!
But anyway, back to topic! :p
I don't think enough was done at the G-8, I think much more could have been done, I think the World needs to realise that we should help other countries!

"A stick of gum costs like 3p dude." exactly. 3p a day. is that something hard to ask for? £11 a year? is that what is theft? money which can be found down the back of the sofa? pennies which are normally cast aside when you leave the shop. the price of a bottle of wine a year? this is the cost of life and death to these people. 3p a day. are we to begrudge them that for that extra bottle of wine?

what madness is it to argue against giving 3p a day to help save 30,000 children a day?

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

"A stick of gum costs like 3p dude." exactly. 3p a day. is that something hard to ask for? £11 a year? is that what is theft? money which can be found down the back of the sofa? pennies which are normally cast aside when you leave the shop. the price of a bottle of wine a year? this is the cost of life and death to these people. 3p a day. are we to begrudge them that for that extra bottle of wine?

what madness is it to argue against giving 3p a day to help save 30,000 children a day?

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It's madness for two reasons.

Firstly, because aid isn't helping. As has been shown by economic report after African refugee.

Secondly, because 3p a day isn't going to make a difference anyway. That was my entire point in commenting on the cost of a stick of gum.

And yes, it's still theft. It's theft if it's a piece of lint.

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if taxes are theft then i would rather america be stripped of it's armed forces and left defenceless than have another day where 50,000 people starve to death. take the police of my streets and take away my schooling system if taxes are theft and so it is okay to watch millions starve to death. if taxes are theft then the defence forces should not be paid for.

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There are other means of government income than income taxation - and we might not even need it at all if the government were minimized to only protect freedom(military, law courts, police). If we needed it, there could be other means of financing the government, or even a voluntary income tax(which would add another competitive part to businesses).

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lack of action resulting in death is manslaughter and so blame. it does not mattwe who started this or who's fault it was. the problem now is ending it.

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That presupposes that there is an obligation to that person. If a woman watches her baby son suffocate, that's murder. I have no obligation to people in Africa - what I give is by choice. Putting obligation over choice nullifies morality.

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life is not earned. it is a right to be expected.

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Yes, a right. Therefore, I have the right to live my own life. Freedom(a right to your life) presupposes that each life is value in and of itself, which means that there can exist NO obligation outside of the individual, unless the individual takes that obligation upon himself by choice. Externally mandated obligations(not by choice) are horrible and wrong by any moral standard that truly values life.

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the life of one man to save millions is worth it.

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You just proved that your arguments aren't even worth consideration. I'm not even going to reply to you anymore - anyone who listens and actually agrees with that tripe deserves the results.

A mere 3p a day can save an African? I would expect then, that Cloud No. 9 has saved many Africans and has proof. Perhaps the best way for you to gather support for your cause is to lead by example. Sacrafice your wealth and save a whole village. Otherwise, it's pointless to expect everyone else to do so.

Edit: I was tired and said some borderline over the top comments that weren't necessary. Don't want to cause problems. Sorry.

It doesnt matter how much money we throw at them, its just getting sucked up toa crooked government and what is a evil dictator going to do with that extra cash? start a help the homeless programe or build a new palace wing and kill and mame some people?
Other former colonies of imperialism developed beyond any expectations, because they choose to work for it.
They need to get of there starving arse and actually WORK themselves to make there land a better one, its there job not ours because its there culture, there ways there lands. If they could trade fairly, yeah super that may help.

I dont feel like driving ourown country into poverty, Ill have to continue this later.

sorry my maths was wrong. if a stick of gum is 3p. it's half stick if gum a day to meet the africa commission goals. which makes it 1.5p. and that makes it £5.50 a year. we are not talking here about impoverishing ourselves. noone will be driven into poverty over £5.50 (less than 10 dollars for the americans) a year. no country destoryed. no one will die of starvation. noone will die of cholera or some other nasty water disease. but without that amount of money. people will die.

and garland i give 10% of all my earnings to charity. which is more than 10x any country does.

Splashing out money to tyrants does soon build up, we dont have have machine where we push the handle and money spills out, Not so wise on the verge of a resession either, Our own money is NOT infinite thats we have tax that goes up.

And as I said it does not matter how much we give them, it wont make a diffrence because the people who need to never see a penny.
If it was so simple as that, they wouldnt keep getting handouts. Its there screwing country and there driving themselves into poverty by electing and keeping those crooked goverments.
Give a tyrant more cash, he will keep himself in luxury and mame people.
If they CHOOSE to finally get a form of goverment that actually wont spend all there tax money on a palace, and it doesnt actually have to be a democracy, (seeing as it failed many times before and it clearly doesnt work for them) a form that suits THEM not us, belive it or not there is many forms, we can finally open trade barriers and they can finally start working themselves out of poverty.

it needn't go into the hands of tyrants. it can go straight to where it matters. building schools, water supplies, farming equipment. providing food.

i doubt £5.50 a yeah is going to damage any western country in the slightest. if you can justify to me why you with all the money you have, have more right to that money than 3 billion others living in poverty then fine.

ps. "it's mine" is not an argument.

yes it is, I dont want my money stolen form me.
that amount builds up to a large sum, that Africa needs and it may seem strange to you but we also need money ourselves *gasp*
And how would that larger amount of monet be distributed throughout so many nations? Pixies? how can you garentee that it wont be taken, not maintained or whatever afterwoods? you cant. Keep your sticky hands of my cash.

I would just like to point out that I would willingly volunteer a portion of my income to federal need IF the government was broken down to its basic purpose(army, police, law courts) - so I would know exactly where my money was going and what it was to be used for, because then it would not be for "federal need" - but my own. If I agreed with what the money was going for(and I would, if it went to those aforementioned departments), I would give a portion of my income. But I do not agree with welfare and public education and "eminent domain" and the war on Iraq and giving Africa more money - how can I be forced to fund those things which I disagree with? The only way is by force - by the political power of a totalitarian system. And if I do want to donate some money to some other cause, that cause should be to a private charity, not some government-subsidized mess - and again, because I choose to.

from what i can see here. there is wuggly blight - who doesn't care if africans die because he believes that £5.50 a year is a huge price to pay for not having 50,000 people a day die. and thought it may sound odd. you ain't gonna die from not having that measly amoutn of money. really your not. it's not gonna dent your life in the slighest. i bet if you looked hard enough you could fine 2p a day on the street. or by keeping the pennies you get when shopping. and no it wouldn't be pixies sharing out that money. it would be in fact *gasp* people and *gasp* banks and *gasp* charities. you don't really care for africa you care for that very cheap bottle of wine you will take in it's place. i hope you never have to go to darfur or uganda and see what your greed brings. i hope that you never have to go and see death in thousands, smell it, watch children starve to death with swollen bellies, listless eyes and can't even move. and i hope that one day you will change from this way and not be damned. god bless your soul.

raistlin on the other hand keeps jibbering on about the government. and how much he is taxed. he also says you doesn't believe in giving more money to africa. we should forget that the amount of money we are talking about is miniscuil. we should forget the huge benfit it would bring. but he wants to pay less in taxes. raistlin wants more money for himself but does not belive in helping those with none.

there should be no choice in watching 30,000 children starve. it is not a matter for which one should opt out of. to rather keep his £5.50. it should not be a matter up for discussion. this matter is more important than anything else on this planet. (well it ties with global warming). it is more important than american security. it is more important than terrorism 3,000 americans, 200 spaniards, 54 biritsh. it is as important as 50,000 people dying consistantly everday. and to stop that should not be optional and should be the first thing we pay for, not a battelship, jet or tank.

From what I can see here, you're still completely missing the point.

I mean, it's not even worth trying to open your eyes to anything at this rate; how many times do we have to attempt to remind you that what you want to do is lower your government to a totalitarian slave-pen?

Yes let them die cloud 9. When there all dead perhaps you can actually get a clue and LISTEN. Click your heels all you wont you cant help them until they help themself.

i just can't see taxes as some totilatarian evil.

and it's not opening my eyes to a truth it's opening my eyes to a believe. a believe which i understand but loathe.