to fight?

That is sort of true, i guess..

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Originally Posted by herbie08

oh dear lord, not another smurfing conspiracy theory. Everytime you post one of those you lose credibility with me. The more and more you speak the more comforted I am in the knowledge that you know nothing about America.
There's really no point in arguing with you anymore, you've just proven to me that you have no validity. Thanks.

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Who care's? You have made a fool out of yourself by denieing and ignoring fact's that i have posted earlier. Your just like the average German in the mid 30's you think something will happen because the party you support and the country you love tells you it will happen. But the real reality of it all is much darker.

The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, pull back the curtains, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

would anyone else be willing to fight and die for what they believe in if asked to do so today?

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Nope, I would not fight and die. I have people to look after, things to take care of, dreams to accomplish. There is no way I will go fight and kill others, and die for whatever thing I believe for. Fighting is pointless. If I die now, I won't be able to fulfill my family plans for the future.

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Originally Posted by link31793

Is it just me or does the thought of Braveheart come into play when some1 asks the question would you live and die for what you believe in?

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Lmao. True.

Edit: I have just read all the posts in this thread so far, and I'm guessing that some people (who I will not name) will go off topic involving America. It's just a hunch.

Agreed lets stop if you guys wanna continue then make a topic.

I think if it came to it, I'd try to help those in trouble, not start fighting. Actually, looking at the parrallel you want to draw with WW2, the absolute stupidest thing you could do is to *fight* the police state (at least openly). The people who did the most good against the Nazis weren't the ones going out and picketing the SS or shooting at them. That just got them dead with no net change. The ones who did the best were the ones that kept their head down, and did the good citizen kind of stuff whilst hiding Jews in the closet. That way, the Nazis were actually twarted from killing the Jews.

Re: Pnac.

I have read most of the documents in public domain about PNAC, and it does seem that PNACers are a group to keep both eyes on. But thus far, we seem to be keeping a good deal of our freedoms. No one is being arrested for merely protesting the war, and for the most part we aren't under survailance (we don't have security cameras about as England does). That doesn't mean that our oligarchs can't decide to change things rather quickly, just that for the moment they aren't trying.

And notice I'm putting this down to what the oligarchs decide. If you look at modern politics, you must have a very large war-chest to even think about running for national office. That means that you must either personally be rich, or be well liked by those who are to even get nominated. And since one must be nominated to even think of being elected, America is and has been for quite some time an Oligarchy that keeps enough of that "Olde Tyme Constitutional Republicanism" around to prevent the people from demanding a change. In reality it almost doesn't matter who you vote for, as they've all already been vetted and approved by the rich and powerful.

And not just with Bush either. I think it probably goes back 50 years or more. The only reason that the oligarchs still allow elections rather than outright pick the leadership is that they fear that people will rebel.